LED DRL Front Fogs?

[tony_fry]

Been looking at DRL (Day Time Running Lights) and found these :-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/L200-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-LED-2006on-FRONT-FOG-LIGHTS-PAIR-/300461086410?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item45f4e056ca

OR

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ANGEL-EYE-LED-UNIVERSAL-SPOT-FOG-LIGHTS-LAMP-85MM-3-5-/280613396177?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4155dc9ed1

I wonder how easy it would be to mod the standard front fog lights?

I haven't ever touched the front fog lighs so I don't know how easy it would be to change the OEM ones to these?

[Gate Keeper]

What are the legalities for running these lights in the day if there is no fog? I once got pulled over and was reminded to turn mine off.

[tony_fry]

What are the legalities for running these lights in the day if there is no fog? I once got pulled over and was reminded to turn mine off.

I think you will find the outter ring of the fog lights is for DRL, which all new cars from 2012 will have to have fitted, its no difference to the Audi, BMW's and others that are running around now days.

The inner part still has a conventional bulb for fog.

[tony_fry]

I was looking at another ebayer for DRL:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280617691634&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Bottom of the page is shows fuel savings of 8%, I sent him a question on how it would save 8% on fuel and this is the reply I got back:-

Hello,
Thank You for question. I don't know much about legislation in Your country, but for example in Lithuania and most of other European countries You must drive with lights on, night & day. But in the daytime You can use DRL. It uses less electricity power, than usual lights and that's why You save some fuel. There is written up to 8% and from my own experience I can guarantee that my car saves about 5% fuel. Also You can find more information about LED and DRL on the web;)





I don't know how correct he is with his statment.

[Gate Keeper]

Thanks Tony for clearing my query up. If you do go ahead and fit them, do post some pics up. Cheers. Phil

[tony_fry]

Thanks Tony for clearing my query up. If you do go ahead and fit them, do post some pics up. Cheers. Phil

What I really need to know is the sizes of the OEM fogs in the housing, I don't know if any members have a spare one laying around, and then be able to give me the sizes, I don't want to spend £150+ only to find they will not fit in the OEM case.

I have looked on rimmers site, and it seems they do the replacment lens but I don't know if its just the MG version that is round:-

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID001649

[Mintee]

What are the legalities for running these lights in the day if there is no fog? I once got pulled over and was reminded to turn mine off.
The DfT say
There is no requirement to retro fit DRL on vehicles not fitted with them as standard. If you decide to retro fit DRL you should ensure they have been approved to the correct European legislation. This can be confirmed by checking that the approval mark embossed on the lamp contains the letters "RL", see figure 1 below. Ideally retro fitted DRL should be installed such that they activate automatically when the engine starts and switch off when headlamps are turned on. If this is not the case then you must ensure that you manually turn DRL off at night as they will cause dazzle and discomfort to others if used in low ambient lighting conditions.

http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/pictures/drl%20info.jpg

[tony_fry]

The DfT say

Thanks for that info, it seems strange that the Audi's do not switch off with the headlight on at night?

[Jakg]

I think you'll find 8% is a little optimistic - a 210a alt (nearly double that of my ZT CDTi) takes about 5 HP at full load - and theres no way the OEM systems will max out the standard alt, either!

[tony_fry]

I think you'll find 8% is a little optimistic - a 210a alt (nearly double that of my ZT CDTi) takes about 5 HP at full load - and theres no way the OEM systems will max out the standard alt, either!

Yep that was I thought, I know when I originally posted about the savings by me replacing "all" of the exterior bulbs with LED's, I thought there would be some savings, but I have not noticed ANY difference in the MPG with a lesser load on the alternator.

[Spanky]

I am very interested in getting some DRL's on the ZT, but want them to look OEM - tried LED fog bulbs and they were no good. The LED strips don't look OEM enough for me, but these fog lights look good, I like the angel eye DRL idea - I had my bumper off last week too, could have removed a fog light for measurements !!! :(

[Jakg]

Yep that was I thought, I know when I originally posted about the savings by me replacing "all" of the exterior bulbs, I thought there would be some savings, but I have not noticed ANY difference in the MPG with a lesser load on the alternator.Changing all the interior lights might save you 10w at most - I routinely draw 500w extra from the charing system with no affects on the MPG

[tony_fry]

I am very interested in getting some DRL's on the ZT, but want them to look OEM - tried LED fog bulbs and they were no good. The LED strips don't look OEM enough for me, but these fog lights look good, I like the angel eye DRL idea - I had my bumper off last week too, could have removed a fog light for measurements !!! :(


Totally agree with more of a OEM looking product, I have the LED strip now between the bonnet and the lights, but it looks very tacky.

Just waiting for a member to come back with some sizes , failing that I am going to visit Les @ SMC next week, so hopefully he will have a car thats being salvaged or one on the self I can have a look at.

[Spanky]

Totally agree with more of a OEM looking product, I have the LED strip now between the bonnet and the lights, but it looks very tacky.

Just waiting for a member to come back with some sizes , failing that I am going to visit Les @ SMC next week, so hopefully he will have a car thats being salvaged or one on the self I can have a look at.

Will be very interested in your progress :cool:

[Gate Keeper]

The housing for my fogs measures 10 cms wide and 7 cms high (2004 CDTi) if that is of any help Tony.

[Moonshine Mark]

I have a ZT fog here and make the 'viewable' diameter approx 82mm.

[tony_fry]

Thanks Philip and Mark for your input.

I think I will have to ask Les @ SMC if I can strip a 75 one down, I really need to know the internal size of the light unit not the exterior size of the housing.

I will keep this tread running, it might me that I can ask Sean (Radioguy) to source for the members.

[Gate Keeper]

I see the Bulgarian ones measure 85mm X 65mm and has adjustable brackets, therefore should fit into a housing measuring 100 mm X 70 mm, although the housing on my CDTi is eliptical in its shape and not round and equal. £150 plus is a lot to fork out if it is not the right size. Why not ring the supplier if your going for the higher priced one and ask them to give you the measurements.

[Gate Keeper]

No problem Tony. I am interested, as my fog lenses are discoloured and I will follow your progress for these reasons as well :}

[tony_fry]

I see the Bulgarian ones measure 85mm X 65mm and has adjustable brackets, therefore should fit into a housing measuring 100 mm X 70 mm, although the housing on my CDTi is eliptical in its shape and not round and equal. £150 plus is a lot to fork out if it is not the right size. Why not ring the supplier if your going for the higher priced one and ask them to give you the measurements.

Hi Phil

I know the seller say's "adjustable" bracket they are a fixed bracket which has different fixing holes.

[T-Cut]

If you decide to convert OEM fogs into LED powered DRLs, you will also have to re-wire them to a separate supply and switch. The OEM fogs are designed to only operate with the headlamps on.

TC

[J1MBO]

If you decide to convert OEM fogs into LED powered DRLs, you will also have to re-wire them to a separate supply and switch. The OEM fogs are designed to only operate with the headlamps on.

TC

Think you may mean sidelights there TC - well that's what happened on my previous and current 75's.

Cheers
Jim

[Spanky]

Think you may mean sidelights there TC - well that's what happened on my previous and current 75's.

Cheers
Jim

Mine need the dipped beam to work, they don't work on the sidelights.

[tony_fry]

I was hoping to have the DRL running from an igintion switch supply and still get the fogs running from the headlight switch panel , which I think is quite easy to do, proiving I can get the replacment LED & Fog unit to fit the fog light surronds.

The idea is DRL and Fog Light in one unit.

[J1MBO]

Mine need the dipped beam to work, they don't work on the sidelights.

Think you might be getting mixed up with rear fogs, they only work with dip and/or front fogs. The front fog lights on both 75's I've had work with just the sidelights as below.

Cheers
Jim

[Spanky]

Think you might be getting mixed up with rear fogs, they only work with dip and/or front fogs. The front fog lights on both 75's I've had work with just the sidelights as below.

Cheers
Jim

Not 100%, but I am sure I needed dipped to test the new ones I have recently fitted...... :shrug:

[Typhoon190]

Been looking at DRL (Day Time Running Lights) and found these :-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/L200-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-LED-2006on-FRONT-FOG-LIGHTS-PAIR-/300461086410?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item45f4e056ca

OR

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ANGEL-EYE-LED-UNIVERSAL-SPOT-FOG-LIGHTS-LAMP-85MM-3-5-/280613396177?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4155dc9ed1

I wonder how easy it would be to mod the standard front fog lights?

I haven't ever touched the front fog lighs so I don't know how easy it would be to change the OEM ones to these?

Hi Tony.

I had a go at this, but not really the proper way. :o Bought these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-x-24-LED-Linear-Flexible-Strip-Car-Lights-24cm-White-/120612584254?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c1511fb3e
and laid them inside the original fogs. Plugged them into the side lights.

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/imagehosting/60994c54829edd32f.jpg

[T-Cut]

Think you may mean sidelights there TC - well that's what happened on my previous and current 75's.

If you like, but the fogs will only operate when either the side or headlamps are on and the engine is running (or ignition at position 2). But the point is, they need rewiring to run LED DLR/fogs without the other lights on.

TC

[HarryM1BYT]

I was looking at another ebayer for DRL:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280617691634&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Bottom of the page is shows fuel savings of 8%, I sent him a question on how it would save 8% on fuel and this is the reply I got back:-

There is written up to 8% and from my own experience I can guarantee that my car saves about 5% fuel. Also You can find more information about LED and DRL on the web;)

I don't know how correct he is with his statment.

I would suggest it is highly optimistic.....

Lets say your car engine is capable of generating 100Kw of power, turn your lights on and they will consume only 150watts of that power, so that is roughly 1/650th of the maximum power available and 1/650th of the fuel consumed at maximum power. Even if you run most of the time at 1/4 of that available power output, the lights being on only consume 1/162th of the fuel being used. Somebody is telling porkies.

[T-Cut]

Surely nobody fits LEDs to save perol do they? - - do they?

TC

EDIT: er, perol?

[Jakg]

Lets say your car engine is capable of generating 100Kw of power
Not quite... the CDTi has a 110a alt, and assuming it's got a light load should be running at 14.4v - thats a max power of 1584w.

Now looking at the ratings for the lights (for all halogens - Xenons, HID's & Xenons are lower)

http://i.imgur.com/1zGZm.png

By my rough maths, with *all* lights (inc vanity lights, hazards, interior, fogs - not counting the hi-brake light) on, thats a draw of 574w.

Now if you were to replace these with LED's, you would reduce this - but you could only reduce the power of the non-CANBUS lights (as the resistors in the CANBUS ones eat all the power you "save").

The only non-CANBUS lights are the interior lights - if we pretend that the replacement LED's use 0w, then you'd still only save 36w, or 6%.

Even if you went down to HID lights, you'd still only end up saving an extra 40w (7%).

So overall, if you went all out, you might save about about 13% of power usage... but like I said, a 210a alt only uses ~5HP at full load. So realistically, 13% is nothing your going to notice.


EDIT - On the other hand, whenever I fit new lights to my car (examples - DRL's, footwell lights, boot lights), I would never fit halogen bulbs - not only do they look rubbish and take up lots of space, but for the same price you might as well get something that draws as little power as possible.

[HarryM1BYT]

Not quite... the CDTi has a 110a alt, and assuming it's got a light load should be running at 14.4v - thats a max power of 1584w.


I said the engine output power in Kw not the output power of the alternator, which I appreciate is just a small fraction of the engines power output.

[T-Cut]

Now if you were to replace these with LED's, you would reduce this - but you could only reduce the power of the non-CANBUS lights (as the resistors in the CANBUS ones eat all the power you "save").

Not really. It's a myth that canbus controlled LEDs must 'consume' the same power as the bulbs they replace. My own investigations show that a very low power consumption will still negate the blown bulb test. It's remarkably low actually, compared with the original bulbs. Whatever - I don't believe anybody fits LEDs to save fuel. They do it for the look and there are of course much more effective ways to economise.

TC

[chrissyboy]

What I really need to know is the sizes of the OEM fogs in the housing, I don't know if any members have a spare one laying around, and then be able to give me the sizes, I don't want to spend £150+ only to find they will not fit in the OEM case.

I have looked on rimmers site, and it seems they do the replacment lens but I don't know if its just the MG version that is round:-

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID001649
hi tony .i could pop up and we can remove one off my foglights to measure it up if that helps ..

[Jules]

Been looking at DRL (Day Time Running Lights) and found these :-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/L200-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-LED-2006on-FRONT-FOG-LIGHTS-PAIR-/300461086410?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item45f4e056ca

OR

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ANGEL-EYE-LED-UNIVERSAL-SPOT-FOG-LIGHTS-LAMP-85MM-3-5-/280613396177?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4155dc9ed1

I wonder how easy it would be to mod the standard front fog lights?

I haven't ever touched the front fog lighs so I don't know how easy it would be to change the OEM ones to these?


Good grief they're dear!
Considering LED's are pennies to make !!

[navrac]

canbus resistors do use very little power - the problem is that LED's don't take any current at all until almost the full voltage is applied to them. So the trickle circuit used to test if a bulb is there doesn't read any current as its voltage is too low to make an led take any current.

If I remember correctly I used a 200 ohm resistor to simulate a bulb being present which at 14V is 0.07A or less than 1W.

Oh and whilst cheapo LED's cost a fraction of a pence in quantity - the very efficient high power ones that you get in good bulb replacements cost a lot lot more. About 20p to 60p each in the 1000 off price range and a lot of the bulbs have between 6 and 12 in them.

[tony_fry]

hi tony .i could pop up and we can remove one off my foglights to measure it up if that helps ..

Thanks for the offer Chris,

I have to go to SMC's next week, and I am sure he will have a spare fog light for me to have a look at.