Air Con showing *ER*..whats does it mean?

[phenonix]

Switched on the aircon and it looked as if it was working then *ER* shows, not on IPK display but on the aircon disply, ran it for a few seconds and it was blowing hot air so switched it off.

Even when switched off *ER* stills shows
What does it mean?

Just got the radiator replaced and also they had the centre console out checking out an airbag fault so wondering if the garage did not put it all back together right:shrug:
also charged an arm and a leg for those repairs and just do not want to have to put the car in again and get another big bill:mad:

Has been in the 40's this week, so running the aircon on cold for 30 minutes in the morning going to work and 30 minutes in the evening returning so i do not think i was over doing it.
Any advice appreciated

[SD1too]

Hi Joe,

I've never heard of 'ER' before. The air conditioning has it's own limited diagnostic system but this shows 'FC' in place of the left-hand temperature display and a numerical code in place of the right-hand display. You could try activitating this manually to see if it produces anything:

Press and hold the AUTO and air distribution buttons.
Turn the ignition switch from 0 to II.
The audible and visual warnings cycle on and off whilst the ATC ECU runs the diagnostic check.
When complete, either FC and a code is displayed or the system returns to normal.


In any case it would seem extremely likely that the garage has forgotton one of the connectors when reassembling the console. Take it back to them without delay.

Simon.

[phenonix]

Thanks Simon
I knew you'd have an answer:bowdown:
It ran ok for a week after the garage worked on it, I'm hoping it's something they did wrong so they fix it rather than my air con has died.
Can you clarify the test procedure?
Press the auto button and the button that changes the air direction from feet to face for example?

[phenonix]

Ok,
Just tried the test
and it is flashing FC22 then FC22 back and forth
do you know what the codes means?
where do you get this info from?
I have never seen this test mentioned here.

[phenonix]

I found that the errors are related to the left and right solar sensors
any idea where they are?
and what i'd need to check/fix?

[phenonix]

i dont have the pyramid sensor, just the older round one.
If its saying left and right i see it goes to the Automatic temperature control ECU, now where would that be?

[phenonix]

is the ATC ECU C0662?
is that beside C0660 and C0661?
I know where they are

heehee
Feels like i'm asking the questions then answering when i research further
feels like i'm talking to myself...making progress though :D

[raykay]

The solar sensor cables are in one of the two connectors in the back of the ATC panel and a couple of connectors behind it, Slate/Orange, Slate/Purple, and Orange/Yellow. I would think one of them has been disturbed when they had the centre console out.

[phenonix]

Thanks raykay
could you clarify please
*and a couple of connectors behind it*

[phenonix]

raykay would you have a reference or links i could look at to see the connectors for the AC so i'll know what i'm looking for?

[ex-ctr]

i have the same ER message on the climate display

[kaiser]

:D
You don't need to be a member of any club, you can make your own tread all by yourself!!
;)

[stocktake]

I found that the errors are related to the left and right solar sensors
any idea where they are?
and what i'd need to check/fix?

As i understand it if you do not do the test in bright sunlight then the solar sensors will show as a fault :)

[SD1too]

Hi Joe,

Sorry for the late reply, but I see you've been making good progress.
Ok,
Just tried the test
and it is flashing FC22
do you know what the codes means?
FC22 means the right hand output of the solar sensor is open or short circuit.
where do you get this info from?
From MG Rover's CD ROM workshop manual.

Stocktake makes a good point. MGR advises that the sunlight sensor is illuminated with a strong light source in low natural light conditions to avoid a false fault indication. Mind you, is that possible in the Australian summer? :D

Simon.

[phenonix]

Actually i did the test in the garage, so when i go out today i will do it again.

[phenonix]

might have been barking up the wrong tree because i did the test indoors
might be a totally different problem
there i go again talking to myself :)

[phenonix]

Earlier i had said FC22 and FC22
i meant FC21 and FC22 back and forth

this post is to tell myself what i did myself :shrug::shrug:

[tsautos]

Those faults are default codes for the photo cell nothing to be worried about

[phenonix]

Are you saying *ER* means the cells of the display has gone?
If so it just needs a new display?

[phenonix]

Oh, I think your referring to FC22, I thought we had a different idea there for a minute

[raykay]

Thanks raykay
could you clarify please
*and a couple of connectors behind it*

Two of the connectors in the loom behind the ATC panel/ashtray unit in the centre console have the three cables to the solar sensor through them.

[SD1too]

Those faults are default codes for the photo cell nothing to be worried about
Terry,

I'm confused. What do you mean?

Joe,

I've just found this:
"If there is a fault with the K bus link to the BCU, 'er' shows in the RH temperature window."
Is that what you have?

Simon.

[phenonix]

Joe,

I've just found this:
"If there is a fault with the K bus link to the BCU, 'er' shows in the RH temperature window."
Is that what you have?

Simon.[/QUOTE]

er is showing on both sides, even when the AC is switched off,
If i turn the engine off it extinguish's, restart the car try the aircon again and it stays on

Now it has just gotten more confusing
tried the test in the sunlight 26 degrees at 7 a.m.!

and it is showing FC00 :shrug:
getting stressed again as now i think its worse than i thought :mad:

[phenonix]

hhhhm K bus link
I have hans sensor linked to the kbus and thats working ok, i've had issues with the kbus before where if i indicated left it flashed right, ages ago.
so maybe i look at the k-bus..any more information where your looking Simon?

[phenonix]

worth trying a battery reset?

[phenonix]

Joe,

I've just found this:
"If there is a fault with the K bus link to the BCU, 'er' shows in the RH temperature window."
Is that what you have?

Simon.

Hang on a mo.
am i getting that confused with the I-bus?
are k-bus and I-bus different?
must be :shrug:

[phenonix]

No Joe,
Ibus and Kbus are the same thing on our cars
on BMW's for example they are seperate

[phenonix]

Thanks Joe :)

[SD1too]

Tried the test in the sunlight 26 degrees at 7 a.m.! and it is showing FC00
FC00, according to MG Rover, is "no fault found"! I imagine this means that the previous sunlight sensor indication was false because your car was in the garage.

The manual doesn't seem to mention an 'er' indication in both temperature windows. Yes, you could try a battery disconnection but don't forget to allow your sat. nav. drive to shut down properly. But if this fault has only occurred since the console was removed, there must be a clue there surely?

Simon.

[phenonix]

7511

This is the temperature i'm driving around now in with no A/C :mad:

I'll have a look behind the A/C console tomorrow and see if anythings loose

[phenonix]

FC00, according to MG Rover, is "no fault found"! I imagine this means that the previous sunlight sensor indication was false because your car was in the garage.

The manual doesn't seem to mention an 'er' indication in both temperature windows. Yes, you could try a battery disconnection but don't forget to allow your sat. nav. drive to shut down properly. But if this fault has only occurred since the console was removed, there must be a clue there surely?

Simon.

Simon,
What does it say to do for the ER error on one side?
"If there is a fault with the K bus link to the BCU, 'er' shows in the RH temperature window."

would you know of any test i can do?
or where the kbus link is to the BCU so i can test/fix it?
does it go into connector C0662?

[raykay]

This may tie up with your other thread, the ATC connector 792 pin 6 is shown in the manual as being the K Bus, connected to pin 18 in connector 662, and is shown as a Pink cable, not White/Red/Yellow as it is elsewhere.

I don't know how to test it, but I understand it fluctuates between Ov and 12v, if it is at a constant voltage it may be faulty.

[SD1too]

What does it say to do for the ER error on one side?
It doesn't. There isn't a fault-finding guide included.
Would you know of any test I can do?
or where the kbus link is to the BCU so I can test/fix it?
Does it go into connector C0662?
I'm sorry Joe, we're into computer territory now. I can fix cars but I'm hopeless with computers! :nastypc:

Simon.

[phenonix]

I have just had a new radiator installed last week, when i got the car back drove it for 10 minutes then hot a high engine temp reading, hans sensor helped me there, the mechanics turned up and poured in maybe a litre of coolant if not more, they said must have been an air pocket, now when i try to check the coolant level the coolant overflows, i don't take off completely off as it is pouring out so much, i'm not doing it when the engine is hot, just warm but still never seen so much pouring out, could the air pocket, or the overfilled coolant be playing a part?

[phenonix]

Ran tests today
Took off centre console, nothing look amiss there.
tests...
If i start off the AC in Auto the error comes on
but if i clickly press Econ the error does not appear
If i start the car in Econ no error shows
fan speed still works
distribution button still works
but..rear heat window has no led
Interior flow button has no led
Cannot cycle through interior flow (picture of curved arrow inside a car)if i press it once the led car image disappears and it will not re-appear (not sure if this is normal)
Auto led will not turn off if i press it(normal?)but Econ does turns it off



so it seems to be auto and interior flow that makes the error appear


if this shine any light on my situation?:bowdown:

[SD1too]

... the mechanics turned up and poured in maybe a litre of coolant if not more, they said must have been an air pocket, now when i try to check the coolant level the coolant overflows ... I'm not doing it when the engine is hot, just warm ...
Joe, two things:


When refilling the cooling system after radiator replacement did your mechanics follow the correct procedure: raising the expansion tank as far as it will go during the air venting operation? If not, this could explain air locks.
You should check the coolant level only when the engine is completely cold.


As for your air conditioning's odd behaviour, did you ever try a battery reset?

Simon.

[phenonix]

Just wondering if there was a some relation between the coolant/radiator garage job and the error.
Did a battery reset, off for a couple of hours while I tidied up a few wires behind the console relating to the *Ultimate remote mod* and having a look to see what they moved.
Error is still there.
Only thing I did not check was the Kbus, i did not have time to get to the BCU as it is a glovebox out job.

[tsautos]

The coolant or air con will not be your problem, you have a jammed motor or electrical issue the gm6 provides the live for the heated screen, what is the ambient temp saying on the ins pack is this a true reading ? have pressed auto and mode buttons together for it's self diagnosis ignore 21 and 22 they will be there unless the solar sensor is bathed in sunlight.

[phenonix]

The coolant or air con will not be your problem, you have a jammed motor or electrical issue the gm6 provides the live for the heated screen, what is the ambient temp saying on the ins pack is this a true reading ? have pressed auto and mode buttons together for it's self diagnosis ignore 21 and 22 they will be there unless the solar sensor is bathed in sunlight.

Yes 38.5 degrees is correct, got up to 43 degrees here in places

did the test got FC00 which means no fault

It maybe GM6, not looked the Kbus yet
how can i tell if i have a jammed motor?

[phenonix]

GM6---C0662

1 Not used -
2 Recirculated air Output
3 Evaporator temperature thermistor Input
4 Air conditioning switch LED Output
5 Heated rear window switch LED Output
6 Recirculation switch LED Output
7 Heated rear window switch Input
8 Recirculation switch Input
9 Air conditioning switch Input
10 Fresh air Output
11 Heater blower relay Output
12 Pollution sensor Input
13 Driver's window down switch (hardwired) Input
14 Driver's window up switch (hardwired) Input
15 Spare 2 -
16 Spare 1 -
17 Heater blower motor sense Input
18 K Bus 2 Input/Output


Buttons on A/C

1 LH temperature switch working
2 A/C on/off (OFF) switch working
3 Economy mode (ECON) switch working
4 Blower switch working
5 Display working
6 Distribution switch working
7 Temperature scale (°C / °F) switch working
8 RH temperature switch working
9 Defrost mode switch working
10 Rear window heater switch not working
11 Fresh/Recirculated air switch causes error
12 Automatic mode (AUTO) switch causes error

trying to correlate if it is GM6 as it seems most things on it are working, except for the heated rear window

[kaiser]

As for checking the radiator, do only so when the car is stone cold. Anything else is a waste of time.

I have not followed the thread in detail, but if this A/C problem has occurred since the radiator repair, I would tentatively tie the two together.
It might be an idea to see if anything has been disturbed, disconnected, broken or is leaking.

BTW that's hot down there:D

[phenonix]

As for checking the radiator, do only so when the car is stone cold. Anything else is a waste of time.

I have not followed the thread in detail, but if this A/C problem has occurred since the radiator repair, I would tentatively tie the two together.
It might be an idea to see if anything has been disturbed, disconnected, broken or is leaking.

BTW that's hot down there:D

Yes damn hot, and driving with no AC :mad:

[xantiaman]

i have had this same problem and like the earlier poster if i turn the a/c on then quickley press the econ button the er message never appears not a fix i know but at least you can use all the other functions as rover intended.incidently my heated rear window switch doesnt illuminate altho it works fine.

[rotrex]

i have had this same problem and like the earlier poster if i turn the a/c on then quickley press the econ button the er message never appears not a fix i know but at least you can use all the other functions as rover intended.incidently my heated rear window switch doesnt illuminate altho it works fine.

hi guys. just noticed this thread, mine does exactly as you describe here.first I thought it was the fbh I fitted but turned out not to be.tam.

[phenonix]

hi guys. just noticed this thread, mine does exactly as you describe here.first I thought it was the fbh I fitted but turned out not to be.tam.

did you find a fix?

ok..so a couple of people with the error


if every function except *auto* is working what parts of the system is *auto* using that could be causing this?
i.e. what happens when auto is pressed as opposed to not being pressed, does the pump come on?


the rear blind *led* (maybe still working as stated below) which when pressed does not cause an error so its interaction is not a big factor, but would still like to fix it
i have had this same problem and like the earlier poster if i turn the a/c on then quickley press the econ button the er message never appears not a fix i know but at least you can use all the other functions as rover intended.incidently my heated rear window switch doesnt illuminate altho it works fine.

[kaiser]

In "auto" there is a feed back from sensors to maintain a constant temperature afaik. However, if this was the only problem, then switching the system on, and de-selecting "econ" should let the A/C run without feed back.
But it doesn't, does it?

As a thought, if you switch on the "demist" button, then the fan and the AC should come on automatically.

Are you sure the aircon clutch get a signal.

[phenonix]

However, if this was the only problem, then switching the system on, and de-selecting "econ" should let the A/C run without feed back.
But it doesn't, does it?
if i click *auto* after *econ* i get the error

so if auto is based on sensors maybe one of the sensor has failed, what other sensors are there besides the solar sensor?


a thought, if you switch on the "demist" button, then the fan and the AC should come on automatically.
i'll try this next to see what happens

you sure the aircon clutch get a signal
i'm not sure what the aircon clutch is kaiser

[kaiser]

The clutch is built into/unto the pulley on the compressor. When it is switched on it engages, otherwise it idles.
I think it must be some magnetic engagement, but I don't know.

[phenonix]

eeeeemmmm....it was the fuse :getmecoat:

in my manual it says fuse 4 is for air con and power windows yet my power windows were still working so i did not check that.

but fuse 4 also covers the power-folds which is not mentioned in the manual

and i drove in 40 degrees with no air con!!!

i am now going to unsubscribe to my own thread so as not to see any replies calling me a muppet :}

[SD1too]

I am now going to unsubscribe to my own thread so as not to see any replies calling me a muppet.
On the contrary Joe, thank you for posting a successful resolution. None of us had come across that before: a blown fuse results in 'ER' on the ATC display. Yet another piece of the jigsaw put into place.

Pity you won't see this. :)

Simon.

[phenonix]

Ok i lied :)
I've been told 4 maybe fuses run the aircon (Duncan "The Community")
Permanent feed, aux feed, ignition feed, and one that goes to (I think) the recirc / fresh motor
last one i think was my problem

[rotrex]

I have not made any effort to find my problem yet. unlike where you are its a wee bit to cold outside right now. for now mine works fine on econ so that will do for now although will be wanting it fixed soon. I know my fan is dead {windings in motor look like been badly heated} so will start there.
today I will try everything to refresh my memmory, so I know exactly when er appears and what functions cause it, I will report back with my findings ;)

[SD1too]

I've been told 4 maybe fuses run the air con ...
According to the circuit diagram:

Fuse 11 fed from 'auxiliary' to ATC ECU.
Fuse 27 fed from 'ignition' to ATC ECU.
Fuse 34 fed from battery positive (via 50 amp "link") to ATC ECU & fresh/recirc. air motor.
Fuse 4E (battery +ve via main relay) goes to Cooling fan ECU
Fuse 9E is battery +ve to compressor clutch.


I bet you wish you'd never asked. :D

Simon.

[Clickernick]

Ha ha !!! What a great thread. Poor old Phoenix, shrivelling up in all that sunshine, what a bummer eh!, at least we have all learnt somthing useful about it always being 'something simple'!

On a similar note, both my heated seats seemed to pack up recently along with the front passenger only electric seat adjustment, I looked at fuses for the electric seat motor and all was fine, hmmmm. Then I checked the heated seat fuse and found it popped. 20amp
I changed it for a new one and the heated seat buttons lit when pressed. Goody!! I thought.

Then checked the electric seat motor and all worked!?!? How's this??

How can the fuse for one circuit control the power to another circuit which has it's own fuse?? Or is it a case of having a main circuit and an auxiliary circuit?

[SD1too]

How can the fuse for one circuit control the power to another circuit which has it's own fuse?
A bit of a puzzle I agree. The heated seats are fuse 49, the passenger seat switch pack is fuse 53; both are supplied by the same wire. The only thing I can think of is an intermittent poor connection which you disturbed, and corrected, when you pulled out fuse 49.

Simon.

[phenonix]

According to the circuit diagram:

Fuse 11 fed from 'auxiliary' to ATC ECU.
Fuse 27 fed from 'ignition' to ATC ECU.
Fuse 34 fed from battery positive (via 50 amp "link") to ATC ECU & fresh/recirc. air motor.
Fuse 4E (battery +ve via main relay) goes to Cooling fan ECU
Fuse 9E is battery +ve to compressor clutch.


I bet you wish you'd never asked. :D

Simon.

Fuse 34 in my manual says engine management:shrug:

[SD1too]

... in my manual ...
Do you mean RAVE or your owner's handbook? There's no trace of fuse 34 in the circuit diagrams for engine management.

Simon.

[phenonix]

Owners handbook
Fuse number
Rating (AMPS)
Circuit protected
1
20A
Rear windows
2
30A
Traction control
3
5A
Memory seats, clock
4
5A
Air conditioning, power windows
5
5A
Body Control Unit, wipers
6
5A
Instrument pack
7
5A
Immobilisation, cruise control
8
5A
Body Control Unit
9
10A
Windscreen washer pump
10
5A
Instrument pack
11
5A
Audio system, power windows, mirrors, cigar lighter
12
10A
Accessories socket, rear sunblind, parking aid
13
10A
Interior lamps
14
20A
Central door locking
15
15A
Cigar lighter
16
20A
Accessories socket
17
5A
Instrument pack, engine immobilisation, ATC controls
18
5A
Airbag SRS (yellow surround)
19
30A
Driver’s seat
20
20A
Fuel pump
21
30A
Power seats
22
15A
Audio system amplifier
23
20A
Sunroof
24
30A
Windows - front
25
20A
Seat heating
26
5A
Anti-theft alarm, engine immobilisation
27
5A
Instrument pack
28
15A
Horn
29
15A
Rear wiper
30
30A
Headlight washers
31
15A
Alarm sounder
32
10A
Anti-lock brakes, traction control
33
5A
Driver’s seat belt warning, ATC controls
176
Fuses
Fuse number
Rating (AMPS)
Circuit protected
34
10A
Engine management
35
5A
Heated mirrors & washer jets
36
5A
Alternator
37
-
Not used
38
-
Not used
39
-
Not used
40
5A
Exterior lights
41
10A
Cruise control, reversing lights
42
5A
Not used

I understand there are two types of fusebox's
early...grey
later...red and umm.. another colour

[SD1too]

My owner's handbook says exactly the same as yours.

Simon.

[phenonix]

and you have an 1999, so early type fusebox

[allegroman]

After messing around with my centre console (removing everything to wire a power socket into the existing lighter) I've got the double 'ER' message and a non-functioning rear demist... and straightaway I find the relevant problem described, and solved, here:bowdown:

Now I just need a chance to check out the fuse when its daylight/not raining:D

Glad it's not as warm as down under...

[Mr Edd]

Wow! what a thread... Great stuff to learn from this.

I remember when I lived in The Blue Mountains during the bush fires in the early 90's. Got to 47c a few times even up in the mountains.

Fun when it eventually rains and everyone runs out side to cool off. Can't see that happening in Shropshire. :shrug:

Air-con is a must in Oz.

Edd

[grantkwilson]

My car has been fine - until I started it today.
I have the Er message on both sides of the climate control display. Like this error, if I switch it to econ it doesn't error. The led on the rear demist does not light. The indicators and main beam, lights etc all work, but nothing lights up on the dashboard and the indicators don't flash or make a noise on the dash.
I have checked fuses 4, 5 and 11 and they look ok.
Whether or not it's linked, but we had very heavy rain yesterday. I've checked the drains and they all seem clear and dry, as is the carpet in the car.
Help !!

[grantkwilson]

My car has been fine - until I started it today.
I have the Er message on both sides of the climate control display. Like this error, if I switch it to econ it doesn't error. The led on the rear demist does not light. The indicators and main beam, lights etc all work, but nothing lights up on the dashboard and the indicators don't flash or make a noise on the dash.
I have checked fuses 4, 5 and 11 and they look ok.
Whether or not it's linked, but we had very heavy rain yesterday. I've checked the drains and they all seem clear and dry, as is the carpet in the car.
Help !!

A day and a half of dry weather and it's back to normal !

[rich17865]

A day and a half of dry weather and it's back to normal !
Do you have parking sensors?

[grantkwilson]

I don't. It must have been linked to the heavy rain but I couldn't find any damp patches or puddles !

[crown]

hi,
did you manage to solve the problem?? as I have the same issue.

mark.

[ryszard]

Hi,had the ERR message on the heater control display on my launch car.Originally thought it was caused by having the battery out of the car for a few days on charge due to the alarm going off caused by a flat battery and due to no battery getting software mix up.I found the battery had discharged by noticing the sat nav disc holder was not powering down.Previously had no problem with it. Took the sat nav out to disconnect it and found a slight amount of water in the housing bracket and where the two connectors plug into the back of it.Water had just got onto the PCB inside on the power connection.Reading on previous posts decided worth a try and cleaned up the PCB with a brush and left it out in the sun to dry out.Seems I was one of the lucky ones as have put it all back with no ERR message and sat nav now powering down.Water ingress was caused by the chrome side trim.Ironically had previously done the other side as that is where I saw water ingress.Presumed I never did the other side as that had always been dry.Probably turning the car around and altering the lean angle that is how water crept in on that side.It was only a miniscule amount of water but enough to give me the ERR.If you do not have sat nav then all I can think it is down to a short somewhere else.Another area I looked at trying to work out why my alarm had gone off I took my bonnet switch out and found the two wires had been rubbing and were shorting or about to.Regards Ry...

[crown]

Hi
I went through a massive puddle on Friday (nearside) I think I may have water ingress behind wing liner.could have a bare wire due to chaffing on the loom?

[Geoff130]

Just been looking for a fix for my A/C when I found this, same problem with ER both sides. It was fuse 34 in the end but a reverse connection to a new powerfold mirror was what blew it! Who would have thought operating a mirror could cause an error message on the heating when selecting demist.