Fueling issue? End of my tether

[rockit]

I have a 1.8ZT turbo LPG.

HGF changed in Septmeber 2010 by MG/tover specialist in bradford.

I have recently been having problems with the car not starting. I replaced all the plugs and HT leads. then found the post about the fuel filter and it coming apart. sure enough it was. I fixed it and it fired first time after a slightly longer cranking. It has been fine for a number of weeks. then over the last few days when i am driving on Petrol (always change to petrol from LPg, during the last mile of my journey) it lost power, so I switched to gas and everything was ok up until the end of my journey. Started as normal for a few days and then today whilst sad idling on Petrol for 5 minutes the engine just cut out. It will not restart. i have been into the fuel filter housing again and am happy that the filter is together and the "O" ring is in place. So what could it be? I am no mechanic is it a fuel pump or sender problem or something else? What can I try?

all help considred. thanks in advance

[eddiemc05]

What a ******, ok does the pump make a buzzing sound when u turn on ignition? If so is there fuel at the manifold? If not check the seal at pump where it seperates and were it seals to the tank, there should be an orange clip modification done to the unit to secure it properly, do a search on foc, fabled orange clip, also ive read on old post about imobiliser cutting out the pump, so search on pump/ immobiliser, could some of the pipes going to pump be split? Did ur car always run perfectly on the gas? Can it start on gas or does it only swtch after engine is runnin?, check fuses, under glove box, pssible blown pump fuse, good luck for now and keep us posted

[eddiemc05]

Sorry didnt realise that a bug and a ger was a no no;)

[kevin]

hold the button for you lpg down and try to start as the same time.
, worked on mine.

[rockit]

Thanks eddiemc05.

there is no clip mod on the filter, i used the old self tappers. it is not apart. There is petrol at the manifold, i can smell that, will try to listen for the pump, after i have recharged the battery. The car cretainly has not run well on gas previously. But the last 6 months have been no problem. The car will not start on gas, it has to be warm enough first.

I will look for split pipes etc. will check the fuses, if I knew which one I was searching for LOL. and also look for the immobiliser issue. Just dont know how i am to get the car home from work in south Sheffield now LOL. might have to search for a mobile mechanic. arghh no more cost please......

[rockit]

hold the button for you lpg down and try to start as the same time.
, worked on mine.
I will try, but it only turns onto gas when the car has warmed up enough. Its typical it has been a dog on gas for ages but for the last 6 months or so it has been brill, no juddering or struggling under load. now i have a petrol issue. LOL time for a trade in?

[Bernard LPG]

I will try, but it only turns onto gas when the car has warmed up enough. Its typical it has been a dog on gas for ages but for the last 6 months or so it has been brill, no juddering or struggling under load. now i have a petrol issue. LOL time for a trade in?

Depending on the make of the LPG system, holding the switch in while cranking completely by-passes the temperature requirement.
The engine will run a bit rough though until it does warm up. Let it fast idle for a time.

[T-Cut]

Fuel reaching the engine has to be at the correct pressure for the ECU to provide a spark. Since you've had the filter unit apart, my money would be on that. You mention that the O-ring is in place, which indicates you separated the cap from the body. This is a potential cause of O-ring damage. The ring is very fragile and opening the module can cause it to displace or get nipped during re-assembly. I'm not a fan of the self-tapping screw fix for FFS because of the possibility of piercing the wrong bit. If starting issues persist without finding the cause, I'd go back to the filter module. The outer sealing rings on filter and pump units may cause external leaks, but won't affect engine starting.

TC

[kevin]

Depending on the make of the LPG system, holding the switch in while cranking completely by-passes the temperature requirement.
The engine will run a bit rough though until it does warm up. Let it fast idle for a time.

see I do take it some of what you say.:)

[eddiemc05]

Its also a bug and a ger when ur car is nOt at home:( so like tc said u need to have a good prssure at manifold, a smell wont cut it, ul need to switch ignition on and unclip somewhere at manifold tO c if its flyin out, if not then possibly pump unit, ive read that if the pump seperates it doesnt run at all, so maybe its damaged due to seperation, can anyone else rule out imobiliser, is there anyother reason for the pump to stop, also if u have a manual book, the fuse layout should be in it, if not sometimes on the back of the panel, but im sure tc knows the fuse number:) how bad did it run prior to this, was it perfect after hgf repair?

[rockit]

Tried the button press of the LPG button, didnt work. BRC multipoint system

Had another look at the filter assembly and this is definetly together with the "O" ring close to the top, not twisted but sat in just nice.

The fuel pump is priming as well.

need to know where the fuse is for the imobiliser. its worth a check. Dont want to buy a fuel pump just because someone thinks that that may be it either. May buy a new "o" ring though and try that for a start. thanks T-Cut, will also get the clip ;)

There must be a simple explaination.

[rockit]

does anyone know where the fuse for the imobiliser is located? Or the fuel cut off/inertia switch, just to rule that out.

It was odd that I could lose power whilst in motion, lucky that I could switch to petrol, but moreso whilst idling, it was like someone just turned my key off and the engine turned off completley. As though th efuel was just cut off or imobilized? am i barking up the wrong tree. i have a full weekend of research before i get back to my car on monday morning, as much info as you people can throw at me would be appreciated. small parts for the fuel filter on order.

thanks again

[eddiemc05]

If the pump is fueling then its back to basics, is there compression? Is there a spark? is the cambelt ok? If all are ok apart from spark, then thinking immobiliser. Dont think thr is a dedicated fuse for the system, its like what tc said, a number of things can make the ecu not send signal to coils etc, so are u using a different key perhaps, or has a sensor failed, eg flywheel sensor? Did u have any management lights on the dash?? Keep at us and hopefully the bofins here will help more:)

[rockit]

If the pump is fueling then its back to basics, is there compression? Is there a spark? is the cambelt ok? If all are ok apart from spark, then thinking immobiliser. Dont think thr is a dedicated fuse for the system, its like what tc said, a number of things can make the ecu not send signal to coils etc, so are u using a different key perhaps, or has a sensor failed, eg flywheel sensor? Did u have any management lights on the dash?? Keep at us and hopefully the bofins here will help more:)

no mgmt lights, it sparks and it is not the inertia button. so far i can tell. Sol I called out the RAC and sure enough the car sparked into life when he sprayed fuel into the intake pipe (I think thats whar you call it) so he agreed that it was a fueling issue and spent a good hour checking the pump and filter. the pump side had very little fuel in, as it was all in the filter side, so that says the pump is working. he lifted the car so the fuel would go over to the pump side, as so to work on the filter side. The problem seems to be that he, nor I could remove the top part of the fuel filter. For love nor money would it not come off so we could inspect the O ring inside and the state of the filter. When i originally put it together it was quite easy to move, so what gives? why is it stuck? its somehow like we could get it so far but the bottom part of the filter housing sucked it back in. So my gut instinct, now the Rac man has been to it, is that it is definetly a filter issue. If only i could get the top off and inspect the filter. i dont fancy breaking the housing and paying out £200 for a new one as opposed to a new filter at £40.
So once i get it off and replace can I then rule out that it is the filter, but Tcut is never wrong. having researched so many posts of his about fuel failure I now understand, why he is always correct in his diagnosis.

So anyone know how i can the the blooming top off?:mad:

[rockit]

Oh....one more thing. I appreciate the help, thank you.

Just purchased a fuel filter top part off ebay for £4.99 with o ring, just in case.

[T-Cut]

Did you say you fitted the FOC or not? Just tightening up the filter cap won't last. IMO, once the filter has slackened, it will always slacken, getting progressively easier. The act of replacing the unit in the tank will slacken the cap due to torque from the fuel pipes. The FOC is essential for all petrol engines and eventually, they'll all get one fitted (IMO).
Petrol pumps are often blamed and replaced unnecessarily. They are not like diesel pumps. More a nice little earner than a culprit.

TC

[rockit]

Did you say you fitted the FOC or not? Just tightening up the filter cap won't last. IMO, once the filter has slackened, it will always slacken, getting progressively easier. The act of replacing the unit in the tank will slacken the cap due to torque from the fuel pipes. The FOC is essential for all petrol engines and eventually, they'll all get one fitted (IMO).
Petrol pumps are often blamed and replaced unnecessarily. They are not like diesel pumps. More a nice little earner than a culprit.

TC
not fitted the foc clip yet it has not arrived, I have also ordered the top filter part, but am unable to replace as I cannot remove it. this is my issue at present I cannot get the filter top off ( see my previous posts). so as soon as i remove and replace can I only hope that it works. but no amount of brute force is getting it apart. Any ideas folks?

[rockit]

ok, car is now back up and started first time, now I have replaced the "o"ring. Upon inspection it had split apart and was inside next to the fuel filter istelf. replaced and started fine. So thank you all.!!!!!!!
Much appreciated.
Now I have a water leak. Arggh ....I have posted a new thread. all help welcome again...many thanks in advance to all.

[T-Cut]

I very much doubt it's the pump. The separation issue concerns the filter module. This causes fuel bleed-out which reduces delivery pressure. This stops the sparks.

EDIT: I see you have sparks using Quickstart, so the ECU must be happy (or my info on this bit is wrong).

TC

[T-Cut]

I cannot get the filter top off

I assume you mean the filter cap won't unscrew from the body?
Or are you not yet in that far?

TC

[rockit]

I assume you mean the filter cap won't unscrew from the body?
Or are you not yet in that far?

TC

Hi TC. no its all done now. I had got the filter cap off eventually, a littl etap with screw driver and hammer then lined up the holes and out she popped. O ring was snapped, replaced and it started first time. Hats off to you. thanks, just my water leak now LOL