Electrical problems

[frankgoldstar]

2002 conny SE auto CDT saloon.

Without a lot of back story, I have got a new conny saloon and it has a few electrical problems.

To start, the IPK readout is in German, even though the dials are English.

Who cares, I think. I know kph IPKs are available, and I do not need a phrasebook (wrong).

The ATC does not seem to work most of the time. I turned on the fan manually (when I bought the car that is - this comment being correct for some of the other "faults" since found) and the fan worked.

I did not try the heated rear window for actual heating, but the light came on in the switch when I pressed it.

Cruise worked, lights ok, heated seats etc.

I found the door mirror adjustment switches did not work, but the lights were on in the door panel, so I assumed that it would be a minor problem.

When I came to use the car after collecting it, the heating did not seem to work, no blower even when the engine got warm and it was cool enough to require the heating.

The blower manual settings did not stir the fan to action, and the first cool morning revealed the heated rear window (despite the switch being lit up) did not work.

Now I find the demist function of the ATC does not work, no blower and no heated rear screen.

I only found out the parking sensors did not work when I read how they should work on the site!

I pressed the rear sun blind switch and it worked. I stabbed at it a few times and it went up and down like it should.

When I next tried to make it work, nothing happened other than I think I can hear a relay click.

I then read the last "service report" given to me when I bought the car and it included "check for non-operation of windscrenn washer - no feed - carry out wiring mods and test".

I have now looked at the wiring a bit more, and there is an obvious separate feed from the engine fusebox towards the direction of the washer pump, obvious that is if you look for it!

I have checked fuses, etc., and all are fine, with the proviso that the engine fusebox has the added fuse for the washer pump, and there were at three other fuses hanging on wires in the passenger fusebox.

Oops.

Time to look at the owners site.

Wiring mods seem to form a theme of messing up the basic car functions, so I need to bottom them.

Plenums clear, no sign of water damage on the ECU.

I will check the BCU area for water ingress.

I will look for wiring loom damage as reported on the site.

I also read on the site that a dodgy FBH can cause all sorts of problems, so I will try a reset of that and report back.

Anything I missed? Or just feedback from anyone who has the strage mic of ATC/BCU/wiring.

What puzzles me most is the



Best wishes,

Frankgoldstar - north west - added my tag to the map on the site. Finally sorted my paypal woes and did the membership thing. great!

[chrissyboy]

2002 conny SE auto CDT saloon.

Without a lot of back story, I have got a new conny saloon and it has a few electrical problems.

To start, the IPK readout is in German, even though the dials are English.

Who cares, I think. I know kph IPKs are available, and I do not need a phrasebook (wrong).

The ATC does not seem to work most of the time. I turned on the fan manually (when I bought the car that is - this comment being correct for some of the other "faults" since found) and the fan worked.

I did not try the heated rear window for actual heating, but the light came on in the switch when I pressed it.

Cruise worked, lights ok, heated seats etc.

I found the door mirror adjustment switches did not work, but the lights were on in the door panel, so I assumed that it would be a minor problem.

When I came to use the car after collecting it, the heating did not seem to work, no blower even when the engine got warm and it was cool enough to require the heating.

The blower manual settings did not stir the fan to action, and the first cool morning revealed the heated rear window (despite the switch being lit up) did not work.

Now I find the demist function of the ATC does not work, no blower and no heated rear screen.

I only found out the parking sensors did not work when I read how they should work on the site!

I pressed the rear sun blind switch and it worked. I stabbed at it a few times and it went up and down like it should.

When I next tried to make it work, nothing happened other than I think I can hear a relay click.

I then read the last "service report" given to me when I bought the car and it included "check for non-operation of windscrenn washer - no feed - carry out wiring mods and test".

I have now looked at the wiring a bit more, and there is an obvious separate feed from the engine fusebox towards the direction of the washer pump, obvious that is if you look for it!

I have checked fuses, etc., and all are fine, with the proviso that the engine fusebox has the added fuse for the washer pump, and there were at three other fuses hanging on wires in the passenger fusebox.

Oops.

Time to look at the owners site.

Wiring mods seem to form a theme of messing up the basic car functions, so I need to bottom them.

Plenums clear, no sign of water damage on the ECU.

I will check the BCU area for water ingress.

I will look for wiring loom damage as reported on the site.

I also read on the site that a dodgy FBH can cause all sorts of problems, so I will try a reset of that and report back.

Anything I missed? Or just feedback from anyone who has the strage mic of ATC/BCU/wiring.

What puzzles me most is the



Best wishes,

Frankgoldstar - north west - added my tag to the map on the site. Finally sorted my paypal woes and did the membership thing. great!

try a batterty reset ,dont forget to have the radio code handy and everything is shut down as it should be ,sometimes this cures electrical promblems ,if that fails then there is a loom that goes through the wing area that sometimes gets cut ,check for bare wires that maybe touching the car body or may be broken ...

[windrush]

As Chris has said try disconnect the battery this some times solves a lot of electrical problems

[The_Monk]

There is a fuse which works part of the ATC and Mirrors. F11 sounds familar but check in the handbook!

The german readout can be changed on a T4

[frankgoldstar]

Dear all,

thanks for the replies I got re the sparky problems my new conny is displaying.

I tried taking out the 6 way control connector to the FBH and the car displayed a few more strange things after, rather than being any better.

As it was raining I am inclined to check for loom damage, although I would have thought shorting would have taken out at least one of the fuses, which are in fact, all sound.

Most striking of the new strange things was that I took out the FBH connector, left the car for a few hours, and whne I came back, the auot wipers were working.

I then noticed that I had left the control stalk in the first position, but the ignition key was out - however, the car did not mind as the lower disply of the IPK was cheeerily lit up showing mileage etc!

When I tried to lock the car, it gave a beep and refused to operate the locks.

When I got home, the display went out, the car locked, but after 5 minutes, the alarm went off, and the display was back on.

The display is now off, and the locks and alarm working.

I might have got further with the car, but I got a bug and spent Friday in bed, so forgive the late reply.

I will now try to get a radio code for the car and do the battery reset as advised by all you knowlegable owners out there and report back.

Best regards, Frank

[wuzerk]

It is a feature of the central locking that you will get a beep if any of the doors, the bonnet, or the boot, are not properly closed. One of those on your car seems to be iffy.

[frankgoldstar]

Dear Gremlin,

I am fairly sure it is not the doors.

The fact that the IPK was lit up and the wipers going on auto pretty much convinced me of that.

The latest manifestation of the "Electrical Gremlins", if you will allow the usage, was that the IPK message centre told me I had a bulb out.

This is the second time it has done that in a week, and in both cases there were no blown bulbs, and the message went away next time the car was started.

More work to be done.


Best wishes, Frank

[HarryM1BYT]

Dear Gremlin,

I am fairly sure it is not the doors.

The fact that the IPK was lit up and the wipers going on auto pretty much convinced me of that.

The latest manifestation of the "Electrical Gremlins", if you will allow the usage, was that the IPK message centre told me I had a bulb out.

This is the second time it has done that in a week, and in both cases there were no blown bulbs, and the message went away next time the car was started.

More work to be done.


Best wishes, Frank

Quite possible...

If a connection to a lamp is intermitant, then the IPK will flag it up as a blown lamp. Does it say which actual lamp? Make a note of it and check the lamp connections and socket for the lamp.

[frankgoldstar]

Dear All,

latest news is that I took off the negative terminal for a half hour and then reconnected it.

The IPK, which had been in German came back on in English!

As I undestood it, if it was in German, it woulkd take a T4 to change it.

Still more puzzling was the fact that the radio did not need re-coding and came on straight away.

The power down did not cure the various gremlins either.

The fuel guage still does not work reliably, being intermittently working and then showing nothing in the tank, and the IPK shows no mileage left and gives a reserve warning, even thought it has a near full tank.

There is a clicking noise from the rear blind area when the button is pressed, but no blind. This did work a few times last week, but not since.

The ATC is all lit up, and I can change the settings as normal, but there is no fan action at all. Again, the fan did work on manual lat week, once.

No heated rear window etc, but the heated seats works.

I had a brief look at the wiring where I could see it under the engine compartment fusebox, and could not see anything amiss.

As mentioned before, there are numerous extra fuses badly wired in, and I have to chase them in the wiring when I get time.

Some questions of the knowledgeable on this website.

When I saw that the IPK was in German, I had a thought that it might have been replaced and not been set up on a T4 correctly.

I wondered if a new IPK had to be"introduced" to the BCU.

The fact that the IPK is now in English after a battery reset seems to throw the whole idea out though, but I still would like to know if the BCU might not be set up properly.

And also, will a code reader, such as the Autel 702 maxi reader, read the basic fault codes from the car?

I have a list of these, so if I can see the codes, I can work out what they mean.


Best wishes, Frank

[suffolk boy]

i suspect damage to the loom which caused the washer problem.then along comes joe blogs adds a new feed and gods no/s what else this wiring is what might be the problem it has been connected to somewhere it should not be probally the bcu.which inturn is creating these other problems. i would start buy removing the bumper and checking the loom at the area at the end off the slam beam.

[frankgoldstar]

I too suspect loom damage, but work gets in the way of finding out much between weekends.

In addition, as both heated rear screen and heater blower are not working, changing the relays over would prove nothing, so I must sort through my big bag of realys for a similar known good item to see if it is simply a set of unconnected faults presenting the proverbial basket of red herrings.

After reading more on the site (my wife will kill me soon, she says she is a car widow) I have found that the rear blind sticks in some cases, no doubt especially if some idiot like me keeps punching the button like I did.

I will keep reporting back as ay answers might be helpful to other owners.


Best wishes, Frank B

[Mike Noc]

Dear All,

latest news is that I took off the negative terminal for a half hour and then reconnected it.

Still more puzzling was the fact that the radio did not need re-coding and came on straight away.

Best wishes, Frank



Frank its common for the radio not to be coded. Many were upgraded by the dealers and they often didn't bother to activate the code. Mine is the same.

Mike

[chrissyboy]

have you checked the pleniums are free of water and the ecm isnt getting wet ?

[Gate Keeper]

"checked plenums no sign of water damage on the ECU and he checked the BCU for water ingress". (in his post) Chris ...

[Rev Jules]

Quite possible...

If a connection to a lamp is intermitant, then the IPK will flag it up as a blown lamp. Does it say which actual lamp? Make a note of it and check the lamp connections and socket for the lamp.


Sorry to butt in this blog but you say you have the new super dooper unit in your car did you get it off of Radioguy if so any pointers of how it fits example is it easy.
Regards

Julien

[chrissyboy]

"checked plenums no sign of water damage on the ECU and he checked the BCU for water ingress". (in his post) Chris ...

i knew i should of gone to spec savers :D i never see that bit .

[HarryM1BYT]

Sorry to butt in this blog but you say you have the new super dooper unit in your car did you get it off of Radioguy if so any pointers of how it fits example is it easy.
Regards

Julien

The basics are easy, but it depends on your car model and year how easy the rest might be. It took quite a bit of experimentation to get everything spot on, so most of the potential issues are now resolved for most people.

The one outstanding issue seems to be if the car is fitted with a twin radio antenna system, where reception can be a problem.

[frankgoldstar]

Thanks to Mike Noc for his post on the radio coding.

The more I find out about these cars, the more I realise how little I know in relation to the vast pool of knowledge of the rest of you guys - long may you drive!

I have not has a chance this week to look at the car, but I need to sort the heater blower at least as the misting up is getting chronic in the colder weather.

I have resolved to check the earths, as rover apparently used to switch the negative, or 0V of things like the relays.

I looked for a change of state on the heater blower relay with a meter (DVM) and could detect none.

The 12v feeds were both there, so a switching problem must be occuring.

If it was all through hardware switches it would be easier to check, but our wonderful control systems get in the way of that.


Best regards, Frank B

[SD1too]

I looked for a change of state on the heater blower relay ...
Frank,

You've probably already found out that the ATC system uses electronic blower control and not the traditional resistor pack. A member recently had a fault with his and successfully repaired it.

Simon.

[HarryM1BYT]

Frank,

You've probably already found out that the ATC system uses electronic blower control and not the traditional relay pack. A member recently had a fault with his and successfully repaired it.

Simon.

I think that was me. I never actually finished the repair - too busy with other things, I simply swapped it out for another module.

[raykay]

Frank,

You've probably already found out that the ATC system uses electronic blower control and not the traditional relay pack. A member recently had a fault with his and successfully repaired it.

Simon.

There is a relay for the blower motor, no. 5 in the engine bay fuse panel.

The blower motor is earthed via a transistor pack which varies the speed, controlled by a PWM output from the ATC panel.

[SD1too]

There is a relay for the blower motor ...
Oops ... I should have written resistor not 'relay pack' in my earlier posting. :getmecoat:

It is now duly corrected.

Simon.

[frankgoldstar]

Dear All,

I finally got to have more than few minutes to look at the car and took out the fusebox to check the wiring for damage as has been reported.

As originally reported the major symptoms I have are no heated rear screen, and no heater blower, so no screen clearing either end.

The fusebox wiring was good, apart from a rather heavy Brown/Grey wire which was disconnected, with the spade connector roughly insulated.

There is an empty slot for the spade connector in a Blue triple connector cage, but not knowing what is what, I decided not to just stuff it in and hope!

The centre connector in the triple blue cage goes to FL12 and has a Brown/Pink wire connecting to it.

Now in the Haynes (a thousand and one things not to do to a car) manual diagrams, I can only find Brown/Grey wires connecting to/from FL12, and no reference to any Brown/Pink wire to/from FL12.

The top connector in the triple/blue connector connects to FL8, but so far I have found a refrence to the what FL8 does.

I did not have time to find where the top connector in the triple blue connector cage goes as it went dark.

So in summary, the wiring has a disconnected wire.

This wire is Brown/Grey.

This wire would appear froom the diagrams to need to go to FL12, but that slot is occupied by the Brown/Pink wire that I have not found a reference to.

I have not been able to find sufficient information to enable me to confidently check the wiring out.

I have no idea why a Brown/Pink wire should be connected to FL12.

I have no idea why the Brown/Grey is not conected

I did put a meter between the disconnected Brown/Grey wire and earth, and there was no connection, or between the live battery terminal and the wire.

Anyone any better documentation than the Haynes effort, or any other ideas?

For anyone looking at this for the first time, the usual things have been done.


Best regards, Frank B

[raykay]

It seems that someone has messed about with the wiring, there should be two Brown/Slate cables from FL12, one 4mm in terminal 5 of the black connector and one 2.5mm in terminal 12 of the natural coloured connector, they both go to the ignition switch connector, 4mm to terminal 5, 2.5mm to terminal 6.
The 2.5mm is the general feed to the ignition switch, the 4mm is the feed for the immobiliser ECU and starter solenoid.

A 4mm Brown/Pink should be in terminal 1 if the blue connector, it is from FL8 and feeds the ABS ECU.

[SD1too]

Anyone any better documentation than the Haynes effort, or any other ideas?
Frank,

I've sent you a P.M.

Simon.

[frankgoldstar]

Dear SD1too,

being but a child in the internet age, I have checked my two email accounts and not found any pm from you.

Can somebody help me out here?

I expect I will find out I have an account somewhere here on the site, but I need more help with 'tinternet than ****** cars!


Best wishes, Frank B

[kissifer1972]

Dear SD1too,

being but a child in the internet age, I have checked my two email accounts and not found any pm from you.

Can somebody help me out here?

I expect I will find out I have an account somewhere here on the site, but I need more help with 'tinternet than ****** cars!


Best wishes, Frank B
Top right of the page Frank, it will say Welcome, frankgoldstar and under that it will say, in blue, Private messages: Unread etc etc

Click on the words in blue and that will take you to your mails

Chris

[raykay]

Near the top of this page, underneath 'Welcome frankgoldstar ', click on the blue 'Private Messages'.

[Johnny the Fox]

Frank,

I've sent you a P.M.

Simon.


Simon would you happen to have a wiring diagram for the 75??:}

[SD1too]

Simon would you happen to have a wiring diagram for the 75?
:eek: :panic:
If you're interested you can buy the whole official MG Rover workshop manual in paper form from Rimmer Bros. The wiring diagrams are not particularly user-friendly and really need to be consulted in conjunction with the descriptive text.

Simon.

[frankgoldstar]

It seems that someone has messed about with the wiring, there should be two Brown/Slate cables from FL12, one 4mm in terminal 5 of the black connector and one 2.5mm in terminal 12 of the natural coloured connector, they both go to the ignition switch connector, 4mm to terminal 5, 2.5mm to terminal 6.
The 2.5mm is the general feed to the ignition switch, the 4mm is the feed for the immobiliser ECU and starter solenoid.

A 4mm Brown/Pink should be in terminal 1 if the blue connector, it is from FL8 and feeds the ABS ECU.


Dear Raykay, you obviously know the cars inside out.

Now that I have been told there is an offical book of words I can get from Rimmers, I will get one and hopefully this will help me to understand the erudite post you sent.

One small detail you may clear up for me here: you said "natural" connector. I have black blue and White.

By natural, I assume you mean what I call white (my colour vision is a bit dodgy sometimes, no wonder I hate wiring!) and if that is the case, I need to have a serious look at where some of the wires are attached.

Thanks to you and all the wonderful people on this site, there should be more Rovers on the road for many a good year.


Best wishes, Frank B

[stocktake]

Your only around 30 miles away from Bigruss, one of the T4 Gurus on this site, his rates are as cheap as they come and he is a magician when it comes to these problems. Worth a call me thinks :)

[frankgoldstar]

Dear All,

a pukka workshop manual is on order from Rimmers (ouch, the most expensive manual I ever did buy, and nearly a tenner for the standard postage - they are having a laugh. Trouble is, it is at my expense) but I had to have it.

I did not realise there was an alternative to the Haynes, so I got one of them right away.

However, it has its shortcomings. Hopefully, the proper manual will give me enough info to sort things out.

Speaking of if, I did not realise I was close geographically to BigRuss.

How do I get hold of him?

It may be better to bring in the big guns, especially given my dismal record on car wiring.

The wires can make efficient, if short-lived, hearting elements!

Many thanks to all who have helped out so far. As I said before, I will run this thread until the stuff is resolved so that if any lessons are there, they can be found.


Best wishes, Frank

[frankgoldstar]

Dear All,

I took the good advice of Stocktake and contacted BigRuss.

My main concerns were tha with so many electrical problems, some important and others less so, that I could not sort out whether there were genuine electrical reasons for the gremlins, or whether the control side of things was not right.

I went over to see BigRuss in scenic Yorkshire, and he was kind enough to come and rescue a lost Lancastrian after my satnav snuffed it.

The warm welcome afforded to my by BigRuss and his good lady was in stark contrast to the decidedly frigid wind whistling around.

Bracing no doubt to most Yorkshire dwellers, but a bit stiff for a nesh manc.

Anyway, Russ hooked up his T4 and did his magic. As the purpose of this post is to record what was done to restore heating and demisting, I will skip over his amazing knowledge of the cars and the T4, suffice it to say he was able to dismiss the red herrings, and instead concentrate on the electrics.

We had more physical red herrings in the form of lots of redundant wiring and bits off a criminally misfitted hands free kit.

Again, as Russ knows the cars so well, he can recognise wires that should or should not be there, so that made it much easier.

He was also able to spin through all the confusing wiring diagrams and show me the connected nature of the diagrams, and show me the bits to look at.

We ran out of time in the end, as it was cold and dark, so I left with a clear idea of where I had to look, and how.

The result was I traced a good live 12V as far as the resistor/transistor pack (whichever it is) and that was where the action ended.

I nicked a known good spare from my old tourer, made like a contortionist and hooked it in.

Hooray! a working heater blower! :}

All thanks to Russ. I will be back over there shortly when I resolve some of the less important issues.

To be honest, it is well worth going over to see Russ as he is such an intelligent, fascinating guy that it would be possible to talk all day and forget about fixing Rovers! :bowdown:




Best wishes, Frank


P.S. The photos Jules had put up showing the location of the fan control unit were very helpful indeed. And they also showed the unit has only two fixings. Without knowing that, and upside down like a semi-skilled bat in the footwell, I would have been well on the way to removing the heat exchanger.