Drop links: everyone's favourite!
 

I've bought a pair of MG Rover anti-roll bar drop links direct from X-Part.

• The flats on the body (used to prevent rotation when tightening the nut) are narrower than my originals. I cannot push a spanner onto them without certain damage to the rubber boot. :eek:
• The threaded shaft is longer than the original. It almost touches the spring so it's impossible to use a ring spanner on the nut. :o
• The nuts are larger than the original, 17mm as opposed to 15mm. There's little enough room as it is without having to use a larger open ended spanner. :mad:

Can anyone recommend to me a brand of drop link which does not have these unhelpful features? My current original factory items have lasted over 100,000 miles and 22 years so I am seeking a similar lifespan. ;)

Many thanks.

Simon



Edit: Thread resolution following post no. 108

The answer to my question is no.

Expect a struggle removing the old links due to corrosion, poor access and 50% visibility.

Fitting all the new drop links as supplied requires ground down spanners and/or shortened threads at the strut mounting (as done by Arctic). Replace the standard enlarged 17mm AF Nylok nut with the original smaller 15mm AF flanged locknut (part no. FX110057) for improved spanner access. A 15mm bicycle cone spanner is adequate on the flats to prevent rotation and damage to the rubber boot. A bi-hexagon flare ring spanner is the best bet for manoeuvrability but its OD will need to be no larger than 25mm to fit the shrouded location and these spanners are usually only available in sets. For the offside it will probably still have to be ground down in thickness.
I looked at crow's foot attachments for a torque wrench but they're all too big.

Good luck. The job's a lot easier if you have the strut on the bench but you really don't want to do that.

Perhaps not answering your question.

Grind the spanner down, cut the thread, this is a common issue, replace the nut with the original?

I dont link grinding spanners but I will if I have another two.

DMGRS have originals, have a word with them about the spanner size but they dont have an issue if you cut the thread

macafee2

MEYLE HD, no issues fitting them, are good quality with a 4 year guarantee.

I can't recommend a make of droplinks but can recommend using a thin spanner to prevent the rotation. I've done this and the boots did not get damaged.

Like you I also struggled with the top nut. I ended up using a Crows foot, a universal joint and a small extension bar - I'm not recommending this as it was awful :D

The tool for the job is apparently a split ring spanner/flare nut spanner!

Neither do I Ian.
Thanks Lee. A good website but the spanner attachment looks thin, just like the MGR parts. I have messaged them.
I will research those ideas, thanks Andrew.

Ideally, I would like to buy parts made to the proper OE dimensions so that I can use standard tools. :o

Simon

I used my ratchet spanners when fitting my Meyle's but I've used a cycle spanner on other brands with good results.

A pair of large Mole grips will hold the shaft whilst you tighten (or also work for loosening) if the original or replacement is too narrow.;)

Agree lifespan of replacements not good. But following thread from I think this site I cut down the thread on the top joint so that a ring spanner can be used to fully tighten. This also makes it a whole lot easier to remove when the time comes.

I've always had DMGRS drop links, and sold or written off the car before they wore out. I think I managed to hold them with a spanner but can't remember. Anyway, as above, hold the rod with mole grips until the nut bites down.

Anyone would think it was a hugely difficult task to copy the original part. :mad: It's quite a challenge to make something worse, surely.

The Unipart drop links I fitted at the weekend were no better. Impossible to get a standard spanner in without it pushing the rubber boot off. Excellent engineering. :duh:

cut 7mm off the thread (discussed many times on the forum), then hand tighten by rotating the link, nip up once in place, using a cone spanner.

Also useful are crow's foot spanners, particularly when tightening the top nut.

Thanks for the suggestion guys but I'm afraid it won't work. The shaft/rod is connected to the joint socket. The ball will still be free to turn as tightening the nut is attempted.

I've never heard of a cone spanner but then I haven't fiddled with pedal bikes for rather a long time. :o I will look into that one, thanks Alan.

The potential problem with a crow's foot spanner is its width. The top nut lies in a shrouded recess which makes any open ended spanner difficult to use.

Simon

I have DMGRS drop links, they say that cutting the top thread will not invalidate the warranty (4 years) so it's a very easy fit, at 15 quid each its really no choice, if they fail they go back and DMGRS are happy to collect.

When I have done mine, I turned the wheel/hub in the direction of the side I am.working on (right when on the right side, to the left when on the left). This allows for access with a flexible head ratchet spanner (as long as the 7mm thread is removed). But a crows foot also has fitted too albeit angled. Tighten by rotating by hand first then nipping it up is all that is required in this awkward section.

Then jack up the arb to meet the bottom end.

They're 30 min per side jobs.

I currently have a pair of £13 items from ebay that I added extra grease into - they were quite well packed anyway. Approximately 15000 miles and they are still good.

I am very sympathetic though with speed ramps and bad roads though.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

Front drop Links.
 

The link maybe of use to some members, i am not saying it's the correct and only way to remove and fit the front drop links.

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d.php?t=192709


I have gold ones to fit when mine decide to give out, three yrs now and still going fingers crossed.
https://i.imgur.com/rZTq8til.jpg1

Hi Steve,

They look interesting. If it's not a lot of trouble, would you mind measuring the height of the spanner flats on the ball end? I'm seeking 8mm (OE spec.) rather than the 5mm found on the Meyle links. My spanner is 7.2 mm thick. :}

Simon

Moog droplinks from euro car parts have the correct length threaded section and as I remember had no problem with fitting a spanner on.
But as per trikeys (I think)findings add some extra grease to the joints.

Stan

For FAI
 

Hey chaps, I've just had a very productive and hopeful telephone conversation with the technical department at FAI. Their anti-roll bar spanner flats are about 5mm high, the same as everyone else's, and completely incompatible with an ordinary spanner but they were keen to hear about the problems and offered to modify the production drawings to incorporate improvements. :}

So, I asked for spanner flats 8mm high (as my 1999 factory part) and said that the threaded pin does not need to be as long as 25mm. I said that enough clearance to use a ring spanner on the nut is what we really want to see. This was agreed and these changes are going to be put to the factory. It sounds almost too good to be true but it was so refreshing to talk to someone who understood the difficulties we face removing and refitting these parts and was prepared to try to do something about it.

It will be too late for me of course, so I've obtained a bicycle cone spanner for now. I don't like sawing through threaded rod but I may have to. :o

Simon

You will love it when you struggle to fit the nut or remove it later when you replace it. With a good junior hacksaw it only takes a few minutes.

Remember, the cone spanners are only to hold the rod, they can twist easily if too much torque is applied.

Easy answer Simon

Assemble with coppaslip , Can save a lot of blood sweat and tears at a later date

Shortening the threaded fixing
 

How many obstacles can be placed in the path of fitting new drop links? :mad:

I have shortened threaded rod before and the accepted technique is to screw a nut fully over it before using the hacksaw. The nut is then retracted (with lubricant) to restore the damaged end of the sawn off thread. Simple, isn't it.

The MG Rover links I have now use an M9 thread. I have found it impossible to find an M9 nut from threaded fastener manufacturers. They consider it non-standard with no market. Edit: I later found out that it is an M10 thread with a non-standard nut size (15mm AF).

I'd be interested to hear of any successful solutions to this.

Simon

Use the nut that came with it. I know it is likely to be a nyloc, but the damage should be minimal, and if tightened correctly, it is unlikely to come undone. If you have concerns, you could add a spring washer to it or some thread locker.

Alternatively, you can file down the thread after cutting to dress it.

This task really should only be taking 30 mins per side. Even with the obstacles. Is there additional issues around the fitting area that are causing a headache?

Thanks for this Stan. I contacted Moog but they couldn't confirm this or the depth of the spanner flats which, from the photographs, look to be the same 5mm. :o They referred me to a stockist who could measure for me. The only non-mail order stockist is Euro Car Parts and when I searched on their website there was no sign of Moog. Brilliant! :rolleyes:

I don't want to do that Alan because (1) the nylon will be ruined re-cutting a thread and (2) the nut's integrity must not be compromised on a suspension part.
I'm not really bothered about time Alan, quality and long-term reliability are important to me.

Simon

You can get plain M9 nuts, but are you sure they are M9? Another method for dressing them would be an appropriate die (M9 dies are also available too). But if you are reluctant to use the nut, then just manually dress the thread - it takes a minute or two.

The Nyloc will not be a factor in the long term reliability (and would be equally compromised if copper grease was on the threads - should only have it on the mated faces). The long term reliability will be on the ball joints themselves, to which I am guessing you will not add additional grease?

30 minutes prep (for additional greasing and painting) and 30 mins per side will still provide long term reliability. Time is not an issue for me either, but taking your time and doing it correctly, it will still take a short amount of time.

Agree The Nyloc will not be a factor in the long term reliability , the ball joints are the usual failure points
Also Copper grease will not compromise the long term reliability and is used on thread as well as mating faces .To get the correct torque value of copper slip you need to add it to the mating faces as well as the thread
For a non structural component like a drop links, provided the nuts are tightened within the elastic limits of the bolt the exact torque is not critical A decent spanner tighten will suffice
Fitting with copper grease ensure easier removal

The failure I was referring to the copper grease if used on the thread has the potential to damage the nyloc material over time - at least as much chance as the nyloc failing or the nut working loose, after using it a second time anyway.

Exactly lol. Sometimes overthinking something can cause its own failures too.

I am with you, but I do smear the face of the strut and the top of the nut after tightened with some copper grease.

I do cut the end off (it makes a huge difference when fitting), then fit them.

An hour later and I am washing my hands.

I use whatever comes with it lol

I replaced one of mine this week for MOT. The old one a pattern part from ebay and lasted 3 years and 12000 miles. Not great, but upside it was very easy to remove. I cut down the top thread of the new link with disc and filed the end. What I found when fitting the new one was that I didn't need to hold the flat at all. The nut tightened to specified torque with no rotation of the balljoint. I remember this from last time too. The actual removal and fitting of the link was 10 minutes work. Add jacking up and cutting and filing the thread. The first time I did this it took an hour to get the original drop link off. I had to use a cutting disc in the end. Perhaps the one advantage of links with a short half life.

[QUOTE=COLVERT;2879880]I'm disappointed to see you all seeking complicated solutions when post 26 is the perfect answer.

Copper slip on this or that.---- Possible failure of the Nylock nut.---Torque values on something assembled dry, or lubricated.---:shrug:


I feel you guys can't see the wood for the trees.---:D:D:D


But what do I know.---:shrug:--;)[/QUOTE

No complicated solutions here . On this occasion using copper slip is just common sense to aid removal the next time, not for tightening torque .
I wouldn't even go to the lengths of double nutting as certainly no need if nuts are tightened correctly . Although part of the suspension, a drop link is not a structural part.
As said a straight forward job taking less then an hour ! :D

My last set fitted several years ago are a replacement set from Matt at DMGS when the first set they supplied knocked themselves to bits in eight months and about 9000 miles. Excellent service from Matt who sent a replacement set with no problems.
There was lots of talk back then about the lack of grease under the rubber boot so I took one off and found the same as others had - no grease at all. - Seriously! Dry as a bone.

So taking my experience from Land Rover suspension swivels a made up a 50/50 mix of a good quality grease and EP90 and used a syringe to force a good few mls of this mixture into the joint by removing the circular retaining wire clip and gently lifting the rubber boot end at the narrow end away from the shaft so I could push the end of the plastic syringe in.

It was fiddly and I wasn’t happy with the deformed wire clips after my removing them so I used a good quality cable tie but it seems to have worked because these ones have been on the car for years now and no knocks or problems at MOT time.

I visually check them every year for MOT and no issue with the cable tie so far. So I would suggest before fitting any replacement drop link - invest a bit of time in getting lubricant into the joint.

Simon
I can confirm that they are the correct length, no need to cut anything.

As for the 5mm/8mm ,I can also confirm that my spanner went on with ease with maybe the slightest of push against the boot.

These also have the Allen socket at both ends so no need for fretting over spanner.

I would find a set of moog ones and get them brought and fitted.

Stan

Thanks for your post Stan. Please can you tell me what you mean by "the correct length". Can you easily fit a ring spanner over the end of the thread? Somehow I doubt it.
Can you get an Allen key in at the upper end, seriously? I think you'll find that the Allen socket is hard up against the underside of the spring so you wouldn't be able to get a paper clip into it! :o

** Update on design flaws **

I've been talking to X-Part and they have asked for full details to pass on to their UK intermediary and, hopefully, the manufacturer in China. There's little hope that anything will be changed for the better but at least X-Part is taking the problem seriously.
I've also had productive conversations with Meyle UK and FAI. Moog just wanted to send me links to website which did not have the information required. I have an enquiry pending with a fourth manufacturer.

Simon

Hi simon , YES you can get a ring spanner on the end under the spring , it needs no cutting,trimming, grinding, fettling or anything else
It is a direct fit ,
Obviously you can't use a Allen key on the top joint but you can on the lower one.
I can't see x part changing anything for a car that is over 20 years old and numbers are falling all the time.
Moog seem to have it spot on ,well built and correct dimensions.

Stan

:eek: Well thanks very much for coming back to me on that Stan, much appreciated. I will try to track down this elusive Moog part.
As we know it's a common failure so demand for this part is high and there are at least five brands available which speaks for itself. The problem is that the original MGR design has been changed for the worse at some stage and will the Chinese be willing to revert to the original design? That's doubtful I agree but it's worth trying. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. :D

Simon

There are more than 5 brands, quite a bit more. I doubt that they are, but if they are used for a different car, or cars,then they will gave preference. But as far as I tell, these are made up from existing ball joints, then welded to the rod. If another ball joint existed with a short thread, I could see the shorter thread being adopted, if not, manufacturers are unlikely to retool to suit a diminishing market.

My solution was the £12 set, cut thread and additional grease. If they need replaced annually, it is not an issue, but so far so good and all quiet. I just have too many other things to spend time.on instead, especially since originality cannot be maintained on these items.


Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

The detective work continues
 

That was a good question Alan. They're M10, but the spanner size has been increased from 15mm (OE) to 17mm (current). So I have bought two BZP nuts and reluctantly I'm going to have to get out the hacksaw.
I've tracked these down and measured them. The threaded rod is 21mm long which is significantly shorter than the competition and yes, on the NS strut I can get a 17mm ring spanner over it! But on the OS I can't. :confused:
Why the difference? The strut is basically the same for both sides but with the ARB link mounting hole drilled in a different position. On the OS it is closer to the spring, hence the reduced clearance. In addition, these parts are not made to a precise tolerance.

I think you were very lucky with yours Stan! :D

Simon

Shouldn't be any difference in shock sizes,nor in the drop link so it might be your anti roll bar is twisted .
If the drop links are different lengths I would be returning them.
All gaps/distances should be identical on both sides.

Stan

Hi Stan,

Sorry, I haven't explained the situation very well. A photograph should help! :D

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...415706e622.jpg

This is the OS strut. You can see the mounting hole for the ARB link on the left hand side. On the NS strut the hole is on the right.
The spring doesn't lie perfectly horizontally on its support, it rises gently upwards. If you measure the height of the ARB link's supporting channel, the left-hand side is shorter than the right, confirming that the spring wire is rising up a gradient. For two identical ARB links, this explains why there's clearance to fit a ring spanner on the right-hand mounting but not on the left.

I hope that's a clearer explanation. :}

Simon

The problem is caused by the spring seats not being handed as such, they have two protrusions for the link seats for the hole to be drilled for the top link bolt, either protrusion depending on n/s or o/s, yet the first coil stop is in the same spot.


The result of this is that on the o/s leg, the bolt hole is approx. 90mm from the spring stop and the height between the link seat and the bottom of the first coil is approx. 20mm.


On the n/s leg the hole is on the opposite protrusion approx. 45 deg away from the o/s hole and approx. 160mm from the spring stop and due to the coil obviously rising it is approx. 25mm from the link seat to the bottom of the coil at that point, 5mm higher than the o/s.


The measurements are approx. and the angle I did by eyeball, but the difference isn't obvious until you have a pair of legs side by side.


Hope this helps, off to give the legs and some other bits and bobs a waft over with a couple of coats of epoxy primer.

Oi SD1.............you beat me to it and a picture is sometimes better than a thousand words. :};)

:D
I'm just glad that we're singing from the same hymn sheet!

Simon

Problems solved, hopefully.
 

Hello everyone,

I've had to abandon the idea of shortening the mounting thread to allow the fitment of a ring spanner. It won't work on the right-hand strut as, due to only 18.5mm clearance below the spring, there would be nothing left for the Nylok nut to attach to. So I've abandoned that idea. :o

Alan's earlier suggestion seems to be the only solution; a crow's foot spanner and this one from Laser Tools looks promising particularly as it enables the use of a torque wrench. :D

Alan also came up with the safe solution for the exceptionally slim 5mm holding flats on the ball pin; a 16mm bicycle cone spanner. I'm going for this one which, at 2.5mm thick, will be just right.

Thank you Alan (clf).

I might be back later in the week if another problem crops up.

Simon

Why not an open end spanner? Push the threads through the hole, by hand turn the link, whilst holding the nut with the open ended spanner. Nip tight with the spanner

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

It's the usual story Alan, the nut lies cosily shrouded (see my photo in post 43) and open ended spanners are too wide. I've tried it on the bench, you just can't get any decent rotation. Plus, the specified torque is 60Nm and that's much more than a "nip". ;)

Simon

I have done this a number of times now (only actually needed to once), the first time I did it I used an ordinary open ended spanner (turn the wheel to the right for the RHS and left for the LHS ;) ). I have yet to use a torque wrench on it in situ. But think of it this way, wheels are supposed to be 120nm if I recall, and to get to that figure, a 'nip' is all that is required after it being tightened firmly, with a 24" torque wrench. So taking that as a guide, a 'nip' with a 8" spanner is going to be roughly 45nm.

But between its service, the position, and the nylock, as tight as you can make it will be more than enough (providing it is not flopping around obviously). The lower nut would be more of a concern, but it is easy.

The next pair I did, I cut and dressed the thread (was able to use the old original nut to 'dress' it), as I struggled to remove the first uncut one (the other side was still original). Then used a ratchet spanner with a flexi head to hold the nut whilst I twisted the link into it, 'nipping' it up with the crows foot at a slight angle. That took about an hour in total including getting the tools out.

The pair that are on now, were torqued to whatever rave suggested as they were fitted off the car, but the threads were cut to length to facilitate future removal. These were only replaced as the suspension was completely replaced.

You do realise Simon that using a torque wench with a crows foot is not accurate as you have a change in leverage !

As (CLF) Alan says sufficient tightness will easily be achieved with a good nip with a spanner particularly if coated with copper grease.
60 Nm is approximately 45 lb/ft and I can guarantee in everyday circumstances with a normal length 17 mm spanner and a straight pull everybody would easily exceed 60 nm

Only if I increase the horizontal length which I doubt will be necessary. I'm planning to use the torque wrench as with a socket and extension which doesn't change the torque. :}

Anyway Steve, why are you raising this when you've said that you would be satisfied with an approximate torque applied by ordinary spanner? :shrug:

Simon

Does anyone know what length the threaded section was on the original drop links , ie the ones the cars left the factory with?

Stan

Simon

I only high lighted this as you have stated that you want to tighten the nut to 60 nm. By using any crows foot you are altering the horizontal length, from the centre of the nut you are tightening and without recalculating the torque value , “which you doubt will be necessary” , will not give you the correct torque which is no more accurate than spanner tightening :shrug:

And yes , I would be satisfied with an approximate torque from an ordinary spanner on a non structural part of the suspension, which with my experience and competence , will be tightened sufficiently and be safe for use .

No need for calculations if the crows foot is fitted at 90 deg to the torque wrench.


If it has to be used straight, i.e. it extends the length of the torque wrench then a recalculation is needed, I can't remember the formula off the top of my head but I would expect there to be an online chart somewhere.


Recalculate by all means if it is a safety component, but bearing in mind that a normal everyday short crows foot will add only about 3Lb/ft to a 20Lb/ft setting

Just measured a couple of links and they vary between 23.77mm and 23.9mm, so call it 24mm ;)

Thumbs up for this.

As for actually managing to torque this top nut in situ on the car...I imagine there's a possibility of bruised knuckles occurring :D

My point exactly, Simon as discounted spanner tightening as an approximate torque but using a crows foot has just the same potential :shrug:
on a a nut that is not torque critical as long as it is sufficiently tight.

24mm on my original factory links Stan, as Ducati750cc has said. Why do you ask?

Yes, agreed, by the distance from the centre of the thread to the drive axis. This is probably going to be of the order of 10mm. The relevant length of my torque wrench is 450mm so, according to Norbar Ltd's formula, the tool's setting would need to be 58.69 to achieve the actual torque of 60 Nm. That degree of accuracy is impossible on my torque wrench scale so it's academic really.

When a torque figure is specified there's a reason for it and it's obviously good practice to observe that whenever possible. Whether it's 58 or 60 Nm, I know that I am as close as possible to the correct figure. With a spanner I wouldn't.
That's specified in the section describing only anti-roll bar link renewal. I am, of course, changing the springs as well and in that section there's apparently no requirement to have the weight of the car on the suspension. :confused:

1st edit:
Having now refitted the first of my refurbished struts to the car, I have found out why MG Rover says that the bottom nut should be tightened with the weight of the car on the suspension. The reason is that with the road spring relaxed the link's bottom balljoint pin is 3 cm lower than the hole in the anti-roll bar! 2nd edit: This was possibly because I had forgotten that the disconnected anti-roll bar at the other side of the car was temporarily supported on blocks.
On completion of the job and out of interest I tried this. It's only possible if the car is on ramps, on a garage lift or over a pit (the torque wrench can only be used vertically below the car).
3rd edit: Update: if you have enough socket extensions plus a universal joint and turn the steering to full lock, a torque wrench can be used on the anti-roll bar link bottom nut. After setting it to the specified 60 Nm with the car raised, once the weight of the car was on the suspension I checked to see if any further tightening was required as specified by MG Rover. It wasn't. There was absolutely no difference to the torque of that nut whether the suspension was compressed or not so make of that what you will!

Simon

That may be your opinion Steve, but MG Rover disagrees.

Simon

I asked the length because you said you had about 18mm gap so even the original rover ones won't fit.
How did the factory fit them , I doubt if they mucked about with bike spanners or cutting the threads down

Stan

To get the correct clamping force the nut actually stretches the bolt, in some applications the torque is critical to get an even, consistent and repeatable clamping force, cyl head, in others not so critical.


Keeping to a torque setting also prevents stretching a bolt beyond its limits.


For every fastener made and there are hundreds on such as a car, there will be a torque setting, on dash trim, engine, door locks, everything, yet can anyone hold their hand up and say they torque every fastener they touch...........me neither.:D


With time, experience, snapped bolts and bruised knuckles, folk get a feel for most fasteners and situations, as with the drop links and if you don't want the nut to come loose, that's what good old Locktite was invented for, on the other hand I've seen folk torque something up till the wrench clicks, then give it another 1/8th or so of a turn, "Just to be on the safe side " , like adding another shovel of soap powder to get a better wash.;)


There will be hundreds of thousands of vehicles trundling around where fastener ' tightness' has been guessed, some even tightened with a hammer and chisel !



At least we don't have to 'mike up' big end cap bolts to measure the stretch like what I had to do on many a motorbike engine in the olden days.:}

I cut down a couple of sockets so any spanner can be used where you can't get a socket in. Norbar's length calculator downloaded on the phone and you don't even have to do the sums. :}

https://i.imgur.com/fKQbWSa.jpg?1

In all honesty though I don't bother with drop link upper nuts - you'd have to go some to overtighten them, and if they are loose they will let you know by rattling well before they come off.

Just ensure they are tight and you are good to go. ;)

Bargain
 

Talking about spanners, i had a great bargain today, took wife to dentist while she was there i took a little walk round the town street markets, and spent £15 below is my haul.

Brittool spanners £5 which may get ground down ;

https://i.imgur.com/hGCRrapl.jpg1

https://i.imgur.com/FW00p0gl.jpg2

Various drill bits and dye tool plus bar £5
https://i.imgur.com/aQMFNZAl.jpg3

Pump action screwdriver £5
https://i.imgur.com/tTSlYTol.jpg4

Was only recently that I had to plastigauge and shim up big end caps on a vintage engine, Makes me wonder how many modern engines will be running in the years to come ?

MG rover in an official workshop manual should have every bolt torque value .
A competent technician will know the critical fasteners he will always torque , Others not so critical he will tighten
When you had the spring removed, can't understand why you didn't fit the top end of the drop link to the strut. You could then have easily tightened it with a socket

So.. you are following mgr’s procedures for torque settings but not when it comes to their suggested frequency for cambelt changes...

Ya can’t have it both ways Simon.

I expect that they were attached before the spring was fitted so supplied to MGR as part of the strut assembly.
That's one of those things that sounds fine in theory but is rather different in practice. The reason is that a dangling anti-roll bar link prevents the strut being held securely in the vise to compress the spring.

Simon

I am following MGR's frequency for cambelt changes, every 90,000 miles. What I don't accept is the six year rule because if they'll last 90,000 miles in five years, why won't they last 90,000 miles in six and a half years? Furthermore, I have proved that they will actually last for at least 19 years so the six years is nonsense. It's based upon marketing considerations and unfounded fear, not engineering principles.

But Andy, and the others who have "thanked" you for your comment, let's not open that can of worms again. The subject has been done to death and will only result in a moderator closing down this thread which is about fitting anti-roll bar links.

Thank you.

Simon

Simon, this is wholly incorrect. It is dangerous to suggest also that you have proved mgr and their advisors (who would have been engineers in synthetic rubber manufacturer and production for automotive applications) incorrect.

You have had experience of one vehicle driven by mainly you, with your own service regime and driving style. And I have said it before, I have done precisely the same as you, and in fact, I have never changed a cam belt on any car I have had, except for necessity. But not for one minute would I suggest I proved a schedule to be incorrect or advise others on a critical element.

The drop link is not a critical element of the suspension (in the event of a failure). It is for this reason that an educated guess can be advised at the level of torque to be applied to the drop link.

I urge you to obtain some practical experience with fitting the drop link and you will appreciate where everyone is coming from in its fitment. This has drawn on for weeks now, with only your theoretical arguments against (I am trying to avoid sounding like brian, but I now understand his frustration).

The struts can be fitted with the drop link in place, and is as easy to do as fitting the strut without. On assembley, it would have been done in this way, but with as a complete subframe.assembley.

My current thinking is that you should leave your car at a competent garage, who will have the experience and tools to do the job. At least this way you will have recourse should it fail in service.





Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

A cable tie or a couple of turns of masking tape to lash it to the leg makes it behave. ;)

You missed a trick there Simon. You can actually secure the strut in the vice with the drop link mount facing towards you , easily fit the drop link , torque it to 60nm with a socket then fit the spring . Job done.
It really is that simple Simon, You will have to list it in your lessons learned for next time.
If I change a spring I usually remove/grease and refit the drop link to ensure easier removal should they need changing

Fitting a drop link on the car is more awkward, as others have said cutting thread off makes this achievable and providing it clears the locknut is an acceptable practice. As for tightness providing the tension is within the elastic limit of the bolt torque is not critical , again an acceptable practice To most people they are a fit and forget until they start rattling again with a worn out ball due to either lack of grease or poor manufacture

Alan, I am at a loss to understand how you can conclude that I don't have any practical experience of fitting anti-roll bar links, provided that you have read this thread from the beginning and are also aware that I'm replacing both broken springs and renewing the lower arm bushes as well. :shrug:
Thanks for your suggestion but I haven't used a garage for repairs for forty years. :D Over that time I have acquired experience in virtually everything including automatic gearbox repairs. I have collected a comprehensive stock of the best tools and I buy whatever is necessary to do the job to the highest standards. You don't have to agree with me and I'm not asking you to change the way you do things so there's no need to post in these disrespectful terms. :(
I've just tried your suggestion Steve but the design and size of my vice must be different to yours. With the link fitted, avoiding damage to the welded brackets on the strut is the problem where they bear against the contours of the vice body. With your suggestion I would have only 27mm of the strut body held in the vice which I don't consider enough.

In any case, as you say, this doesn't help when the time comes to remove the link. Shortening the link's thread may work on the nearside but it won't on the offside. I'm saying that a crow's foot attachment is a better choice because it doesn't require shortening the thread and it enables the use of a torque wrench so, if you'll forgive the pun, it kills two birds with one stone! :D

Simon

Hello Jon,

This thread is about the anti-roll bar links. Can I ask you to refrain from posting off-topic please? You will find the answer to your point in the archive but since you have a diesel, are you really interested in this?

Simon

I make.my conclusion of your drop link experience, as.youwould.have had this task.done now.

I wasnt aware that you were replacing two broken springs and the Bush.

But Now I am.eeven more at a loss at your issue of torquing down the drop link. If you are replacing the spring, the strut will.have been removed. Remo al of the strut means youhave full access to.the strut and it can now be adequately torqued to within 2 or 3 per cent of the required torque.

My comment was not meant to be disrespectful, it was meant as genuine advice, as this post was made out of a lack of confidence (which is what I do when I do not have the confidence). It has stretched on so much now, that even with the similar advice of many, youare choosing to refuse. This suggests you no longer have the confidence in others,who have the experience of fitting these items. A third party (a garage) who will have the experience.and more importantly, the liability insurance, would therefore be a better place to go.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

You could rotate the strut to to the left or the right till the locating lug was within the vice jaws putting the mount to the left or right . As long as it at the front of the vice to clear the bench as the drop link longer than strut
Really You don’t even need it in the vice, you could have just compressed your spring Sat the spring on the floor and positioned your strut through the spring ,the way I changed a front spring on a VW a couple of months ago , Either way you you had the opportunity to easily fit the drop links while the spring was removed

I cant recommend a particular make of drop link, Though I am happy to tell you how I have got around the problems.
where the thread is too long I have cut the excess of with a 1mm cutting disc then using a taper cone cutter make a quick buzz down the top of the threads making starting the nut a breeze.
I have a set of thin walled 3/8 drive crows feet spanners which are fantastic for holding the hex on the threaded part of the Joint.
I have a set of American made thin "S" spanners and a set of offset crank spanners from the same tool company these are about half the thickness of a UK sold Spanner.
I remember working at three Gyms that had 25 spin bikes each the boys needed some very walled spanners this was achieved with the bench grinder and we ground three sets of spanners made by Britool down until they were only 2.5mm thick this way each engineer had the correct tools to work on the spin Bikes the boys even went as far as plastic coating the handle of the spin bike tools in an orange covering making it easy to identify their hook pullers and bottom Bracket spanners even their 1.2 meter screwdrivers easy to find in there boxes. We even ground down a box of M8 threaded nuts to half their original size just so it was much simpler to reassemble one of the areas of the Bike.

The correct tool for the job makes the task much simpler.
Keep up the good work.
Alan

It does indeed Alan, thank you very much for your kind words. :bowdown:

Simon

Hi Alan.
I have a set of spanners that i ground down back in 2012 to do the drop links, and also cut of 5mm of thread on the drop links, i have used several types of drop links over the years, i have only this week bought a set for £12.95

The best ones i have found were Unipart, then the next from a seller D2P but with all drop links always add extra grease.

https://i.imgur.com/snLn0Isl.jpg1

https://i.imgur.com/5EwHMGNl.jpg2

https://i.imgur.com/tn1aQfKl.jpg3

https://i.imgur.com/thY3AcGl.jpg4

The middle drop link is what i have just purchased to see how they perform.
https://i.imgur.com/asSoxIil.jpg5

I have not dressed these yet or added any grease job for today. ;)
https://i.imgur.com/1mGjRKwl.jpg6

fitting drop links should take no more than 40 minutes as for torque it to 60nm i always tighten them up by feel tight then a 1/4 turn more, never had no trouble, not one as sheered off.

Always do the top first turn the drop link until it stops then use the flat to up, after fit the bottom do the same nip up, then go back to the top nut and use ground down ring spanner on the nut and ground down open spanner on the flat then tighten them up until you can not turn anymore.

https://i.imgur.com/88G9tOfl.jpg6

Do the same to remove the old ones.
https://i.imgur.com/BIzNSnRl.jpg7

If the nut will not budge once you have a gap use a new sharp hacksaw to cut through the thread, usually once half way through you can bend the drop link and it will snap.
https://i.imgur.com/Brvuvxgl.jpg8

https://i.imgur.com/a1CLzQsl.jpg9

https://i.imgur.com/KghZ6zUl.jpg10

Clean the area for new drop link.
https://i.imgur.com/jWsfh6Sl.jpg11

https://i.imgur.com/SdgdKmnl.jpg12

https://i.imgur.com/g0zHCDMl.jpg13
Arctic

https://imgur.com/a/tfXSgCa

I'm certainly not proud of this but can't resist sharing... when I did my droplinks I found on one side the hole in the strut for my droplink was no longer a hole. It was just a gap. First pic shows the solution at the time. I drove like that for over a month with no problems. I'm not advocating the solution but there you go!

Fast forward to the second pic. I had a broken spring and knew I needed to sort the droplink situation so new struts and springs for both sides. So if you're inclined to torque the nut, I can confirm it's much easier torquing it with the spring off. Also perfectly possible to do all of this job on the floor. I did put the strut (with droplink) in a bench but decided the floor was easier.

I have a flexible crows foot and I think I tried using this (for the first time when strut was on the car) and I found it was not suitable. I also tried the ground down spanner but my spanner snapped almost straight away. I had chosen a crappy old cheap one to grind down though :}

Next time I am going to buy a split ring spanner.

I have these crow feet spanners but never tried them i will do next time i do a droplink.

https://i.imgur.com/ifS68Ybl.jpg1

Hi Arctic,

I believe they can just about be used but might depend on whether or not the nut is sitting favourably. I couldn't use one on removal due to the position the nut had been tightened to by the last person. I was able to get one on for refitting though as the positioning was then up to me. Hope that makes sense...!

Ps the last person also put the droplinks on backwards at the bottom end which I duly copied until I saw your picture guide. Went back out and fixed the next morning so thank you :D

Hi Andrew.
yes i have seen that be also ;)


Correct way so peoples know
https://i.imgur.com/S4Jhrmrl.jpg1

Judging by the short thread Andrew, someone had been in there before which probably explains the gap (the bodger's way of removing the rusted in link). :o

I've seen others like that described as crow's feet Steve. They're really just open ended jaws with a ratchet handle drive on the end. Proper crow's feet have a hexagon or bi-hexagon profile and pincer shaped jaws.

Simon

The spring renewal section includes the procedure for the ARB links David. That's why I didn't look for a separate section.
I agree, particularly as on the assembly line the engine and transmission is raised up to the suspended body so the ARB and links would already be assembled.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Simon

That's a droplink from DMGRs - unmodified. Not sure what's happened with the gap but the whole setup was in a sorry state anyway. All in the past now :}

Hi Simon
I presume you are referring to these below.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324345927....c100041.m2061

I have a set of those Steve, no use at all for the droplink upper nuts.

Because you have to drop them over the nut, like a ring spanner.

Yes Steve, the "flare" design particularly being superior. However all the crow's foot attachments I have had measured are too wide to fit into the shroud (even 3/8 in. drive) surrounding the securing nut*. I've another to investigate on Monday morning but it's looking increasingly likely that using a torque wrench on this is going to be impossible (with the spring fitted).

Simon

* This is made more difficult by the nut size being increased from 15mm to 17mm.

[QUOTE]]


Hi Mike
Thanks for the info, they have not ever left the case since i purchased them :eek: i suppose one day they may come in handy, regarding the drop links i will stick to my ground down spanners ;) they just slip over the thread that have not been cut, ones which have 5mm taken off they easy go over.
https://i.imgur.com/IuXXVz9l.jpg1

I fitted a pair a while back and the new ones had 17mm nuts that soon found their way into my 17mm nut and bolt box to be replaced with 15mm.


I couldn't fathom out why the manufacturer went up to 17mm.

Hi Bill,

The thread is M10 on both Bill so it seems that the original flanged nuts, 15mm
AF, were a custom size. Why would MG Rover go to the expense of that? Perhaps it's because useful rotation of a 15mm open-ended spanner is available whereas it's very restricted with a bulkier 17mm open-ended spanner.

I'm also going to re-use the original 15mm nuts at the strut end. :D

Edit:
The original spec. 15mm AF flanged locknuts (not Nylok) are the same part that's still used on the lower suspension arm outer balljoint to hub fitting, part. no. FX 110057.
Simon

[QUOTE=Arctic;2881331]Mine neither mate - I bought them for a specific job at work, and then they updated the design and did away with that particular nut. :getmecoat:

Hi David,

I thought you'd like to know that I've found out the reason for this. With the road spring relaxed and the hub hanging under its own weight, the anti-roll bar link bottom balljoint pin is 3 cm lower than the hole in the anti-roll bar. It simply cannot be fitted unless the road spring is partially compressed by some means.

Simon

Are you joking Simon, or don't you understand how anti roll bars work?

Hi Simon.
I have changed out dozens of drop links and not once have i ever tightened the bottom ball joint with the car lowered onto its wheels, also i have never ever had any trouble lining up the bottom ball joint to the roll bar, all you need to do is push down on the roll bar, it's really simple :shrug: therefore i can not understand the above.

No, I'm not joking Mike and I do understand how anti-roll bars work. Do you? I'm sorry but your remark is flippant rather than helpful to forum members.
Hi Steve,
We know that the anti-roll bar is fixed to the subframe at the two saddle clamps and, by definition, it is designed to be a rigid device. I know that you are writing from experience so you must have had to apply considerable force to force the eye of the anti-roll bar through 3 cm. :shrug: I used a jack to raise the hub instead.

Edit, later the same day.
I've just done the other side and had forgotten that I'd temporarily supported the anti-roll bar on blocks in order to reconnect the saddle clamps (to renew the suspension arm rear bushes). On this side I could push the bar down by the necessary 1 cm but you get better control by jacking the hub/strut assembly up instead.

Simon

Hi Simon.
Depends on how strong you are :} you could always use a bar between the front subframe and roll bar ;) but yes quite an easy job to change a pair of drop links 45 minutes maybe.

The best, and safest way to replace droplinks is to jack either the front or rear of the car up and place it on axle stands or other means of support.

Anti roll bars are torsion springs, and like any other spring you should never work on them under tension, which is exactly what you are doing leaving the opposite wheel under load. With coil springs you need compressors and with torsion springs you just need to equalise the turning moment at each end.

This would not be the reason MG Rover gave the advice they did. RAVE wasn't written for back street mechanics, it was compiled to assist dealerships in maintaining their customers' cars. If you had poked your head round the door of a dealership workshop back in the day you would have seen droplinks being replaced with the car on either a two or four post lift.

They would never have done what you did, and if any forum members are taking on this job I repeat, do it the safe way and relieve all the tension in the anti roll bar before dismantling anything.

You've made two assumptions there Mike, both of which are incorrect. It's a wise move to read a member's whole thread to familiarise yourself with the detail before rushing in with all guns blazing. :flame:

I am dumbfounded. This thread would take longer to read than actually do the task and if I was new to doing such tasks, I would have been put off doing it myself.

I feel placing the How To HERE will help others not to be dissuaded from doing a simple job.

Alan, I'm beginning to believe that you haven't replaced an anti-roll bar link on a 75/ZT yourself. Have you? Any job that requires grinding down spanners and shortening badly designed parts cannot be described as "simple". :duh:

Also, Steve's guide deals with removal of the original, now obsolete, link. Dealing with the later parts, which many cars will now have, is a lot harder due to the factors I listed in post number 1!

Simon

Simon it's a wise move to read the whole of your own thread to familiarise yourself with the detail before rushing in. ;)

Well I have changed a fair few droplinks over the years and like Alan am dumbfounded. It is basic fitting work and a simple enough job but like any job you either need to have the right tools for it, or modify what you already have. The cheapest of cycle spanners will work fine as you only need to overcome the force of the Nyloc when tightening the top nut. If the old top link is seized it can be cut off with a bit of care using a Dremmel in a couple of minutes.

As for getting original parts it would appear that they are no longer available, which isn't surprising given the length of time since MGR's demise. Aftermarket manufacturers will often use generic ball joints in many applications to keep costs down.




.

Thread resolution
 

We all like a thread to be resolved, particularly one which has turned out to be much longer than intended.

I started this thread to ask if anyone had come across a brand of drop link which, like the original, could be removed and fitted using unmodified, standard tools. As it became clear that no-one had, I began investigating the suitability of specialist tools. I have added a summary of the result to post no. 1, for clarity.

My target audience is those club members who are experienced in car repairs but who hadn't yet needed to replace their drop links and would appreciate warning of some of the difficulties they were about to face.

To clear up a potential misunderstanding resulting from the critical comments by a very small number of contributors to my thread, the job I have being doing is not just fitting new drop links. They were an unexpected addition to a much bigger task, namely replacing two broken front springs, removing both lower arms to fit new rear bushes and new outer balljoint rubber boots, cleaning and greasing the suspension bearing and fitting a new damper dust cover. This has given me a new insight into some of the things I read on the forum about the front suspension.

Simon

Just a few times simon ..... front and rear.

Steve's guide also deals with how to effectively (and safely) overcome such obstacles, and with some detail, which not only instills confidence in his ability and experience, but they also instill a confidence in me, that I started to lose when I started buying more modern cars.

Some things are.not as complicated or as engineered as you might imagine. Perhaps the manufacturers you have contacted will have explained why the threads of replacements are actually as long as they are? One reason explained to me (by an agent though, not a manufacturer), was that the 'ball joints' are a universal fitment, and welded or tacked to a rod in a position for a particular vehicle. The same joint is then used in a different position for another, perhaps with a shorter rod etc.



Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

I think Steve is right. After taking on board his instructions i find i can now do them with ease. Also his guidence as given me confidence to move on and attempt other projects like pre loading a old Marina mk1 diff in a un light dark garage.... Thanks Steve. You inspire.

With no disrespect you asked the question and have been given a wealth of advice and information from others, who have experienced this task and its problems several times before. They are passing on the benefits of their experiences and often this is as informative as a workshop manual ,
All you have done is challenge and disregard most of the advice given.

Peoples advice on here is second to non and at times you can be overloaded with different option but all the experienced members here have the same goal , to help you and others keep their cars on the road ,

Some times we have to adapt and do things differently particularly now these cars are all over 15 years old and most if not all are pattern parts with very little manufacturer support
Some members have excellent theory knowledge , others have excellent practical ability and knowledge.
We all come from all walks of life and between us make this forum work .

None of the work you have done has been complicated , Awkward and a chew may be but encountered regularly by people in the trade or indeed enthusiasts on aging cars of any manufacturer

Lest we forget, cars and many other things are made to be assembled easily and quickly without a thought of access for repairs down the line, it appears.


How often have we all muttered unthinkable words and questioned the designers parentage when coming across that one last fixing to remove something, when finding that half the engine bay has to be emptied to get at a piddling 10mm bolt that could easily have been located 5mm to one side.


Front lower arm rear mount bolts anyone !;)

Very true Bill. I'm just doing a water pump on the diesel, an easy enough job in a BMW but a right pain with the engine turned 90 degrees. :getmecoat:

As with many things, the designers never have to service what they design. :}

I've built up two legs for the Freebie in the last couple of days, fitted the O/S one yesterday, used the original 15mm nuts, cleaned up and given a coat of paint, they always appear to be in good condition compared to similar ones lower to the ground.


The upper threads were too long, so I shortened them to around 20mm from the ball joint which left around 5mm protruding, on purpose, just right for filing a couple of flats on to give an 8mm openender a nice snug fit, a light coat of my blue grease, gave a spare 15mm combi a gentle ride on the grindstone so it just slid in, positioned the flats so that there was access to them when the leg was mounted, torqued it up to about two to three fingers ;), a dab of paint, all sorted for if I ever need to remove them again whilst in situ.


I know how you feel Mike, I've got the N/S arm to do, there is virtually no play in anything, but I've got one knocking about somewhere and a spare rear mount with poly bushes in so in for a penny.............. nice thing is it's a do what you want when you feel like doing it car at the moment. ;)

Am just processing in my mind, the work you have had to do. Surely it would have been easier, more straightforward to remove the subframe, with hubs and struts still.attached. possibly even replacing the bearings whilst it was all out?

This way it could have been tackled away from.the car, and even torquing the rear bushes too (an impossible task at the best of times). As well as that,you could have descaled and refurbished the subframe too. It would have taken less time, and been more complete, and you could have torqued the drop links without issue too.



Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

I did not ask for advice on how to change a droplink Steve! :duh: You'll see from post number 1 that I already knew the difficulties with the redesigned part and was asking if any manufacturer is selling a better version.
As an experienced member that was my goal too; to explore suitable standard tools that will do the job. There's nothing wrong with Arctic's tool grinding solution but I wanted to see if the job was possible without resorting to that.
Hi Bill,

The solution to that one is to remove the anti-roll bar saddle clamp and move the bar forwards. You can then use a socket on the lower arm rear mounting bolts and even tighten them to the specified torque! That's much better than messing about with two ring spanners linked together as frequently documented here.

Tightening the rear bush bolts to the required torque isn't impossible Alan, I've done it (see my reply above). I also did fit the bushes to the arm on the bench which is far easier than trying to do it in situ as most posts recommend. Removing the subframe is definitely not more straightforward and it's unnecessary but I detect a little sarcasm when you typed those words. ;)

Simon

It is not a task I have had to tackle ....... yet, but when I do need to, I will. I will look at the job in hand, with my mind to do it as recommended, however like you I will look around to see if I can attempt it in an easier way (not often such things happen in cars as old as ours). But if I do come up with an idea, it will be borne from experience and not by asking the question, dismissing qualified reason before even attempting it. I will certainly look at the method you have described, however, I would be wary of damaging the bolts that hold the ARB brackets onto the subframe ;). I would also be wary of my knuckles too ;).

With the subframe out, you could do the bushes on the bench too.

It was not sarcasm, it was exasperation.

As you say--I think---Lateral thinking and preplanning can nearly always save time and money---and gashed knuckles.--:D

Not sure about saving time in this instance though ..... but yes lateral or perhaps alternative practice? With practice being the operative word.

Thinking about (and discussing) it, only to dismiss both practical and accepted practice, before even gaining personal practical experience is just ridiculous in this application.

Forward planning too, also helps. Doing a number of jobs in the one area can mean it beneficial to do one large job for thoroughness. Perhaps a subframe refurb whilst most of the components are out?

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

I knew I had seen a link to this topic at last I have found it. Sadly drop links is what drop links are. Back in the distant past I bought a set of drop link spanners. I think it was from Frost they were a company who sold quality stuff for classic car repairers. ie engine enamel paint that was nice and thick so that an engine coated with three coats really looked the part. A very deep thick solid colour, lots and lots of pigment, they also sold the full range of Dinitrol products. and a very diverse range of specialist tools from suspension cone compressors to thread gauge plates to specialist access spanners. One of their special offers was for a set of drop link spanners. I duly ordered the spanners and also a set of crows feet spanners a set of thread gauge plates and a set of standard thread gauges to round the order up to a totally obscene amount I had added on a set of easyouts I think the whole lot came to about £200 by the time the excise man got his cut. most of the tools were American made the drop link spanners looked like my home made ones but were to a much higher finish. A set of spanners with different angled cranks either end each spanner had two ends both of which were the same size and the spanners covered most of the common sizes in which drop links came in. As I remember the metric spanners were twice the price of the imperial ones, and there was one size missing that I could relay have used on a cat a few years back seem to remember it being 18mm though I am not certain. the thickness of these spanners was just s nats whisker over 2.4mm whilst the jaw surround was not much over 4mm. they were made from Nymonic plate which was what gave them their strength whilst allowing them to be incredibly thin. whilst being incredibly strong.
For the man with the problem of fitting a spanner in on the shank of the drop link today the cheep option is to grind down the thickness of a suitable spanner on the bench grinder until the spanner fits easily on the flats of the link pin with out damaging the rubber boot. I have also seen kits where they have a selection of boots which are cut open in a straight line these you popped around the offending joint then applied a glue down the face of the cut edge when the two edges touched they were permanently stuck in that position, I guess it was a case of each to their own.
Sadly, there is no easy way to do this job you pick which ever method you prefer and Bob's your Auntie.

Best of luck to every one doing this job.
Alan

Alan; if you would like to point out where you think I did this I will give you the explanation.
Why would you be wary specifically of this? New ones are available from Land Rover parts departments and Rimmer Bros: FS 108256. ;)

Simon

Agreed Alan and that's the method which Arctic devised. But isn't it ridiculous that this is even necessary when the flats could have been kept at their original size and a standard spanner used! :o
That's one of those things which sounds smart in theory but, having renewed a couple of boots (on the lower suspension arm), it would be impossible not to contaminate the cut edge with the grease in the joint. Also it would have to be remarkable glue to withstand the constant flexion which the drop links have to contend with. :D

Simon

I will let you go back through this thread to see your refusal to accept alternative practices and other engineered solutions. As you stated somewhere in it, youhave the time.

As far as the bolts go, I know they are replaceable, but a snapped bolt in the subframe would be inconvenient to say the least.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

I have to agree with Arctic hear, over fifty years of working on classic cars both as a hobby and business I have probably done over a hundred drop links the most recent was last month when I replaced the front and rear drop links on the spice tourer. The method I used is the same as Arctic describes. Nothing is impossible some things are just a little more complex than others.
Alan


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bolts and set screws on our cars are meant to be single use.
Where possible you should not reuse a bolt setscrew or nut, when changing subframes on 75s I always replace the subframe bolts.
And every bolt I remove I replace as a matter of course with a new one of the same or higher specification.
I see from many of the posts that the grinding of spanner’s is common place.
I have always said that design and construction engineers and those in the drawing offices should be made to work on and service the plant and buildings they design. They would make things in a very different way. Always when building anything think of the poor bloke who has to work on it after installation.
Alan


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Regardless of what method you find suits you stick with it we all have our quirks in the way we do things. For myself when I was younger my first concern was always can my oversize hands fit it that wee space. Now with age and health against me my first concern is can I get out of bed. Then can I walk with out my sticks.
Or is it going to be a wheel day.
Everybody just keep doing what you are happy with.
Happy drop link changing
P.S the best way is have someone else you trust do the job. I say this after having just having done all 4 last month. I admit I am now to old.
Alan


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I wasnt concerned about reusing or replacing them (I replace and still have the £72 invoice for the fastners related to the rear suspension lol). My concern, though would be the intact removal of such bolts or other fasteners, when other areas were photographed previously with a fair bit of corrosion. I did have a snapped ARB bracket bolt snap on me off the car on the rear. But it is now drilled out, with the subframe sandblasted, painted and rethreaded in the attic awaiting its service.

Design and construction engineers do their job, they are paid to make things as efficient and as inexpensive to manufacture. They are even thinking of the poor bloke who has to remove it, by designing dealer only tools and handbooks etc (RAVE and T4 in our case), they are even thinking also of the even poorer bloke who has to pay for the removal to the dealer lol.;). I do get your point though, as we live in a disposable and convenience society, maintenance is no longer considered a saturday afternoon practice. Even checking tyre pressures is now considered 'not my job'.

Puzzled I am! Just did the Spice tourers back, Front, and brakes, the only thing needing done was one front bottom wishbone the rest was because I had most parts in stock. And if I haven’t done it when I did. I probably would need to put it into a garage when the parts failed, getting to old and frail. Don’t tell the wife I admitted it.
All the bolts for the rear subframe and top and bottom arms including the rear trailing arm and back plate bolts cost me less than £25 fifteen of that was the 4 subframe bolts to body.
When these things become a total pain is when you have to cut out sections of floor, fabricate new ones and weld the sections in exactly the right place.
I am tempted to say bring back real cars where you have a chassis and everything mounts on to its own little outrigger.
Take your point about them thinking about the service engineer. But wouldn’t you love to get your own back. Just once?
Alan


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just realised John’s year old MG ye I know it is not real it’s just a badge. But it has a dash display showing live time tyre pressures.
Alan


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well I'm sorry but your criticism can't be taken seriously unless you justify it. It really doesn't make any sense anyway because I positively embrace "alternative practices and other engineered solutions"! :D What you don't like is that I don't always follow the frequently publicised methods of a few forum members. That's a different thing altogether and it's everyone's right to act as they see fit.
The ARB saddle clamp set screws aren't actually in the subframe, they're in a bracket above it with the thread exposed. They won't "snap" if removed using the proper technique. But if you fear this, then do you fear the same may happen with the lower arm rear bush housing bolts too?
I have just removed and replaced these items on both sides of the car. Nothing snapped and no damage was done to the subframe. ;) Good luck Alan, when the time comes.

Simon

You are incorrect in your assumptions. Previous concerns of mine have been related to your advice and guidance as fact based upon your 'evidence' regarding some other areas of these cars (in particular but not limited to the timing belt).

As I stated, you claimed to have the time, and your dismissal of these common and accepted practices is in this thread (and your reasoning, you do not need to repeat)

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

Simon
After 23 days from your original post , have you actually fitted the drop links yet?

Stan

I was only thinking th same thing...:clap::clap::clap:

I am unsubscribing from this thread due to the amount of alert pings i am getting on my phone, as i already have my way of fitting drop links, and will be sticking to it as it works for me, if someone else started a new thread with an 100% way of doing it easy then i would be interested, so will say good bye for now on this thread cheers Arctic.

[QUOTE=SD1too;2879797]

I'd be interested to hear of any successful solutions to this.

Simon[/QUOTE

Just one quote in a thread about fitting the pattern part drop links


I rest my case Simon :twonk:

Your way of fitting drop links and your easy to follow pictorial guide is excellent and perfect for any inexperienced member to follow :bowdown:

(PING) Sorry Steve. i for one understand wear you are coming from. Here is something i found on interscreen.


Manager / Mentor

Manenger.

The focus is generally on achieving organizational and departmental goals. A manager must ensure that their advice and decisions are always aligned with the organizational vision. With a mentor the focus shifts to personal growth.

Mentor.

The agenda of a mentor-mentee relationship is inclined towards sharing knowledge and experience.
The manager might delay or restrict a learning opportunity for an employee if it conflicts with the organization’s expectations of the employee. A mentor never restricts exploring new avenues for their mentees as long as it helps with their career growth and aspirations. Or in genral just likes to help.

Just a thought..:argue:

I've honestly tried to understand this post but can't and also its relationship to ---drop links.---:shrug::shrug::shrug:


Can anybody enlighten me.--;)

I am not sure, but think it refers back to my comment in post 129 "as we live in a disposable and convenience society, maintenance is no longer considered a saturday afternoon practice. Even checking tyre pressures is now considered 'not my job'' - regarding a lack of skills nowadays when it comes to basic car maintenance, even the ability to change a wheel or checking tyre pressures - laziness masquerading as health and safety. Actually I think it has gone from being lazy to a search for blame. It being dangerous to change a wheel, so therefore you phone recovery, then blame them when you are late, or if the other wheel falls off etc. Driving with a flat tyre, ''the sensors are faulty, they didnt warn me etc''.

Yes Stan, the links were attached and the struts were installed at the weekend. Thanks for asking.
Just in case you are in any doubt, I wasn't just renewing drop links. I was fitting two new springs and two lower arm rear bushes as well. I also had to wait for delivery of some specialist tools and then there was the matter of the top nut which was entirely my decision to investigate further. It was all very interesting and rewarding and it's the way I like to do things. It's not everyone's cup of tea, I know. :}

Nobody is doubting that your method works Steve, least of all me. You've got it right; there isn't a better way. ;)

Hello Steve,
The sentence you've quoted relates to my mistaken belief that the nut size on the original OEM links was M9. This is a non-standard size unavailable at threaded fastener suppliers. I was asking if any members knew of a source of these nuts, that's all. I wasn't asking for advice on how to change drop links. I hope that clears up the misunderstanding.

Simon

Hi Simon,
You tax an old mans memory, M9 nuts were common place on push bikes and spin bikes about twelve years ago just before I retired, they came in ordinary nuts, half thickness nuts, nylock nuts, flanged and flanged nylock.
Hopefully this will help you source a supplier. I worked on four different makes of spin bikes and half a dozen models. My purchasing department had no bother finding an after market supplier. So they were available a little over a decade ago so must still be suppliers out there.
Best of luck
Alan


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for your helpful post Alan but M9 nuts are not required. As I said, I made an assumption which is always a mistake! The size is M10 but the original factory anti-roll bar links used a non-standard head size of 15mm, hence my mistake.

It's advisable to re-use the smaller 15mm nut or buy new ones (part no. FX 110057) at the upper mounting on the strut as spanner access is so much easier. :D

Simon

So if th pedals can go anti clock wise is this called "Back pedaling"... :-) or is it a term for something completly different...?