Coroner calls for review of Smart Motorways
 

An inquest heard that the deaths of two men could have been avoided.

The accident was on the M1 June 7th 2019. Coroner David Urpeth said Smart Motorways without a hard shoulder carry “an ongoing risk of future deaths”.

Sgt Mark Brady, who oversees major collision investigations for South Yorkshire Police told the hearing “Had there been a hard shoulder, had Jason and Alexandru pulled onto a hard shoulder, my opinion is that Mr Szuba would have driven clean past them.”

Let’s hope something comes of this tragedy.

Whoever thought up the Idea of "Smart Motorways" should be held culpable for the deaths of these people. As said "If there had been a hard shoulder the driver would have driven past them"

Smart motorways should be stopped immediately . The hard shoulder should be reinstated .
They are death by design.
The idea is fine but the camera systems at the moment are not effective coupled with the gantry systems are so far apart to warn of lane change restrictions .
Every time I use a ( smart motorway )
I reduce my speed . Look at my guages and take note of where the next safe lay-by is located .

If a driver stops a vehicle in any position on any road, it is the responsibility of every other driver to drive their vehicle safely and avoid it. If a lump of concrete were placed on a road and someone drove into it they would be in the wrong, why does it become the fault of someone not there if an accident occurs?

It is very sad that anybody loses their life or is injured or affected by loss and I personally think that the idea of "smart motorways" is stupidly ludicrous. The idea of this type of road layout is to accommodate the amount of traffic on the roads, but this introduces dangerous safety practices reliant on the abilities of all drivers, and those standards are lowering. When the inevitable accident occurs, though the onus is on the driver, someone else will be blamed. My own opinion.

Having recently driven on a smart motorway, and there is nothing smart about having no hard shoulder when your car suddenly loses power and speed reduced to a crawl.

It was fortunate there was a service area about two miles up the road, but travelling at a maximum speed of 45mph on a live motorway with no hard shoulder was a disaster waiting to happen :mad:

They should be reverted to design as soon as possible.

Brian :D

18 months ago we were driving north on the newly 'smarted' M6 between Holmes Chapel and Knutsford. We were in lane three of four in medium level traffic doing about 70mph.

Suddenly I became aware of dust and smoke about 4 or 5 vehicles ahead in Lane 2 and at the same time the smell of burning rubber entered to car. A large white vehicle up ahead veered from Lane 2 to lane 1 and luckily made it there without hitting anything as HGV's took emergency avoiding action. As we passed the stricken motorhome I could see, out of the corner of my eye, that the offside rear tyre was shredded and flailing against the bodywork and already there were signs of smoke coming from the wheel arch. It was another three quarters of a mile to the next refuge.

Three days later we did the return trip and as we passed that refuge we saw a large burnt patch on the new tarmac, plus a big area of burnt grass. Checking on the local news website the driver had decided to drive on, in anticipation of a refuge appearing and not wanting to risk stopping and being smashed into. By the time he reached the refuge the rear of the motorhome was well alight and was burnt out in the refuge. Luckily the driver and his three passengers escaped unharmed but it must've been a close thing.

Having been in a car that broke down on a smart motorway I can say it is a scary experience. The car just died and as much as I could do it would not restart. I managed to get 2 wheels on the drainage channel but half of the car was still in the carriageway. Several vehicles including HGV's had to take avoiding action but luckily after 10 mins a Traffic Safety Officer arrived and towed us to the first pull in. Oddly the car restarted when the RAC arrived 30 mins later.

My wife was so upset she refuses to drive on a motorway now.

No motorway can be smart - they are inanimate objects, and lethal ones at that. A previous post of mine instanced that parts of the new A14 improvements are in areas where there is no phone coverage, including the ones provided at rescue areas, as confirmed by a Highways Officer I chatted to at Cambridge Services after I had a problem. Unbelievable!

In addition, modern cars simply pack up without warning, unlike older ones which used to give warnings over many miles and could generally soldier on until safety was reached.

I also have broken down on a smart motorway back in 2019. I have never been so frightened in my life. Hazards on but not able to re-start the car, Banana being the car. I finally managed to get out and over the barrier. Phoned the police and recovery. The Traffic Enforcement Agency were the first to arrive. The parked at an angle about 50 yards back. The passenger got out to make sure I was ok. He calmed me down and gave me a bottle of water to drink.

Then the police arrived and proceeded to block of the next lane across. Finally a recovery vehicle got to me and we was winched on board.
The amount of abuse the TEA and Police officers got from passing motorists was unbelievable. But they said it was the norm.

It is bad enough breaking down or having a puncture on an ordinary motorway, on a so called smart motorway it must be horrifying.

Having said that, they do appear to give small benefit (for now) due to the greater capacity but at what human cost?

The whole reason for adopting smart motorways was to get additional roadspace on the cheap compared to building additional lanes with hard shoulder. I guess if traffic volumes reduce with future working patterns and I think that's still a big 'if', then the cynic in mean says the government will think 'at least we didn't spend a lot more on building the full extra capacity we should have done'. I think smug complacency about covers it.

The designer of ‘smart’ motorways, should have their family sat in a car, broken down on the hard shoulder of a smart motorway.

I’m sure their idea would be changed rather swiftly.

Smart motorways? exposing the hypocrisy of vision zero at a motorway near you right now!


I don't believe in vision zero, it's a flawed concept from the start off. I also don't believe in pointless risks, Having a 'refuge' every mile isn't sufficient A breakdown can happen anywhere. It's bad enough if a complete breakdown happens when not in the first lane of a normal motorway...

I don't understand how these people who make decisions like building these "smart" motorways actually get appointed these positions as they never seem to have common sense.

First completed smart motorway I drove on straight away I saw the problem with there being no hard shoulder and couldn't believe it!

And yet those in the positions to design these motorways and approve them couldn't see a obvious problem? Or did they decide that the cost of several lives a year due to the lack of a hard shoulder outweighed the cost of widening these motorways properly with a hard shoulder?

Seems like the case in this article last year, where it was revealed in a document bosses refused to install extra refuge areas on a stretch of smart motorway to save a 2% cost, where 2 people were killed on that stretch in 2019. The document stated 'primary goals' was 'not improving safety' but to 'ensure that the scheme is no less safe than the safety baseline'. So rather than making them as safe as possible they're happy with just meeting bare minimum? Imagine losing a family member over a 2% cost saving.

link: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-motorway.html

Their answer to lack of hard shoulders is that there's refuge areas where you can stop in emergencies around every 1.5m miles apart. Because everyone can time their breakdown with one of these refuge areas right? Or coast their car over a mile to reach one. Fine if the car goes into limp mode but total power loss, tyre blow out etc and you're stuck in a live lane.

And have you noticed how short these refuge areas are in length? With a hard shoulder you can pull onto it at 70mph and slow down safely, same with rejoining the motorway you can build up speed before rejoining. You can't do that with these refuge areas. you have to significantly slow down in a live lane before pulling into them, so they're not even safe to pull in and out of.

Then there's the breakdown services having their lives put in danger when recovering stranded vehicles in a live lane. Think some breakdown services have said they won't even come out to recover you if you're stuck in a live lane of a smart motorway now due to safety concerns?

Highway patrol also face the same danger when they have to attend a stranded car to close off the lane.

Then there's all the problems a breakdown causes with traffic flow. On the old style 3 lane + hard shoulder motorways when there was a breakdown the vehicle could stop on the hard shoulder safely and the rest of the traffic could flow by with no disruption what so ever. Now with these smart motorways as soon as vehicle car breaks down and is stuck in lane 1 it causes huge tail backs. And then so often I've seen the highway patrol turn up and shut lane 1 and lane 2 for the broken down vehicle in lane 1 causing even worse tail backs bottle necking the motorway from 4 lanes down to 2 for one broken down vehicle. I've even been stuck in nonsense like this where they shut all four lanes over a broken down vehicle sticking out halfway in lane 1 for an age! In this clip it's only 15 mins, I've been stuck much longer in the same senario, imagine the tail backs this causes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYthgLchcsw

Then there's the sections where it's 3 lanes + a hard shoulder which during peak times the hard shoulder is used as a live lane. This just seemed to cause so much confusion for so many drivers. Have seen cars drive down the hard shoulder at times when it wasn't a live lane, and when it is a live lane the lorries and 90% of other road users just sit in lanes 2, 3 and 4. It's like driver's don't trust the big "USE HARD SHOULDER" lit up flashing signs.

Another problem was driver's weren't really educated on how to use these smart motorways. There's been articles by the RAC etc but never seen anything officially advertised by the government on TV etc to try and educate as many as possible. Many years ago you used to get public information ads on TV on stuff like this.

38 deaths in 5 years on smart motorways. Can't find any more details if these 38 deaths were all due to being stranded on a smart motorway with no safe place to stop, or if this figure includes general collisions/accidents as well? Even if it was just 1 death, that's still 1 death too many that should never have happened if they put safety first instead of cost saving.

323 miles of smart motorway. 120 miles of it has a traditional hard shoulder, 68 miles of it has a hard shoulder which is used as a live lane during peak times, and 135 miles are all live lane running sections with no hard shoulder, with a further 123 miles currently still being converted with no hard shoulder. and even more is yet to be started. Billions spent, over 10 years of roadworks, hours and hours wasted sitting in traffic through roadworks whilst these smart motorways were being build, adding tonnes of pollution from all the traffic during all these roadworks and 203 out of 323 miles of smart motorways are unsafe and under constant criticism. What a waste of time and money.

and now due to these safety issues they're rolling out a radar detection system over the next 3 years to try and make these motorways safer. Wonder how much that will costs and eat into their "savings" from removing hard shoulders?

Should have build them properly, simple 4 lane motorways with a hard shoulder instead of wasting millions on the useless variable speed limits nonsense and blitzing the motorways with speed cameras to go with these variable speed limits and all these additional cameras and radar systems to detect broken down vehicles due to a lack of hard shoulder.

Even on the old motorways and dual carriageways with a hard shoulder there's been instances where a broken down vehicle parked well out of the way on a hard shoulder has been struck by a vehicle in lane 1, so what did they expect would happen when they remove the hard shoulder completely and leave vehicles stranded in a live lane.

Those responsible for these poor decisions need to be held accountable. Total incompetence when the general public could see the problem with the smart motorway design from day 1. But nothing will come of this. Just more lives will be lost every year.

IMHO, there's your answer.

I'll guess that the "view" high up is that those figures are insignificant compared to the benefits/costs of the overall improved traffic flow and the saving of not building a complete new lane.

Everything will come down to money.

If my opinion is correct then it's sad isn't it.

What really, really gets me angry is, whilst it may have been a silly brainstorming idea by a junior civil servant out to make a name for himself, or a transport ministers wheeze to save money during 'austerity', there must've been so many stages during which the idea could and should have been squashed.

It'll never be squashed if the balance of benefits/costs vs risks falls on the costs side.

Being brutal, a few people dying costs HM Govt a few million pounds. This may well be considered acceptable when the bean counters do their sums.

The folks giving the advice will be very aware of which way the wind is blowing through the various corridors in Westminster and, of course, he who pays the piper...... Add to that politicians who are generally only interested in the short term and doing whatever will get them re-elected and you've a recipe for the sort of decisions we get.

I've posted before, have a read of these books. They are not in any way party political but shed a pretty bright light on how stuff happens.

The Whitehall Effect by John Seddon and

The Blunders of our Governments by Anthony King and Ivor Crewe

Grant Shapps has, like every bad WW1 general, has ignored casualties and has vowed to keep the project going (as is HS2).

Kev

I have no doubt that if it was a private firm then Corporate Manslaughter charges would be brought. As it is a Govt. agency then all is o.k.!

Kev

Should that not read 'sat in a car in the live lane a mile away from a refuge point'.

Kev

I would just like to echo a point made in post 8.

Modern cars, by design, go into limp mode (at best) or engines just pack up.

The significant point being "without prior warning"

Pre modern electronics, you had a good chance of detecting a misfire, or similar, to warn you that a breakdown was on the cards, enabling you to get onto the hard shoulder (on a motorway) or to a "safe" parking location on other types of road.

Mike

I hve not read all of this thread so sorry if already said.
I'm sure I heard on the news Highways or the Government were to be taken to court due to a death on a smart motorway

just found this https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...rt-road-safety

macafee2

Is there a map or list of real motorways(non-smart) anywhere? I don't drive on the motorway that often but would like to know if it was possible to avoid, unlikely I know. Would be a good addition to GPS software to use a 'avoid smart motorways' like you can choose to 'avoid motorways'. Only an evil person would have thought smart motorways were a good idea, I couldn't believe it was a real suggestion when I first heard about them.

It was a while ago, before "Smart" motorways and I suffered that experience.

I was travelling west on the M40, in a newish company car.
It was a Friday afternoon, raining, with heavy traffic and I was in lane 3, when I experienced a total electrical failure.

Now I became sitting duck out there with no lights, indicators or windscreen wipers.
Trying to negotiate my way to the hard shoulder was a challenge, particularly with some other motorists were having none of it.
I managed to get into lane 2, when the engine shut down and so the PAS went on strike too.
Fortunately, I got to lane 1 and the hard shoulder without incident.

I was lucky to have made it, but if I didn't have the refuge of the hard shoulder I think the outcome would have been very different.

The police were there within minutes, and as the vehicle had no lights or hazards, stayed with me until I was recovered.
Try getting that kind of service from a Speed Camera. :D

If the revolving doors of the civil (!) service were a one way route, with similar hazards to public safety, I suspect the idiotic cost cutting infantile adventures would be moderated.

Responsibility coupled with Liability seem to be Fairyland concepts to virtually every governmental department with only promotion following abject failure.

Make sure you leave a damn good gap between you and the vehicle in front so you can see ahead. That is all well and good but vehicles often pull in "close" to you cutting your visibility. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...shire-50004463 prime example

macafee2

We should never, ever refer to these roads as "smart" Always use the word "stupid" instead and by doing this you undermine their position. Chris S.

Institute of Advanced Motorists - Survey
 

I have just received my E Newsletter from the I.A.M. which has the following:-

Smart Motorways Survey

"A new House of Commons Transport Committee inquiry has been announced by MPs into the safety and roll out of smart motorways. Campaigners against them have called for them to be scrapped, some labelling them as ‘death traps’.
One coroner concluded that smart motorways ‘present an ongoing risk of future deaths’ while another has referred Highways England to the Crown Prosecution Service to consider if corporate manslaughter charges may be appropriate.
The government has promised improvements and in March 2020 published an 18-point action plan to enhance their safety.

Against this controversial background we are keen to get your views on smart motorways and have designed a short survey, it will remain open until 26 March."

Complete the Survey

You do not have to be a member of the I.A.M to complete this quick survey. ;)

Done.
Please update us on the results if possible.

Just completed the survey.

Survey completed. I have had problems on a Smart Motorway - they are frightening.

Completed the survey. Personally I have no confidence what so ever in "smart" motorways.

Wouldn't it be nice if the identity of the steering group that introduced this ridiculous suicidal idea were known? They could then be prosecuted and made to repay their presumably vastly excessive payment. Oh, and barred from having anything to do with road safety in the future.

Completed it.

Smart motor way.---Bit like rock climbing wearing a blindfold.--:eek:

Done.

A few months back I was driving east on the M3 in the left lane (what used to be the hard shoulder), following a lorry.

I was getting closer to the lorry, to the point whee I was about to pull into the next lane to overtake, when the lorry very suddenly moved into that lane.

Which suddenly left me with a broken down car in the live lane not far ahead at all - thankfully there was nothing in the next lane so I too could pull over but it was far too close for comfort.

And what would have happened if the motorway was really busy? Slam on the brakes and hope for a gap in the next lane and hope not to get hit by a vehicle behind?

And just what the hell should you do if you break down in a live lane with a passenger in a wheelchair in the car? They can't just jump out of the car and leap to safety over the barrier in a few seconds.......

Its like a lottery, hoping nothing goes wrong and if it does praying somebody with glazed over eyes who has been staring at umpteen monitor screens all day actually spots it and the drivers following are paying attention and not on automatic pilot. There's nothing smart about that arrangement.

Survey done, lets hope a panel with common sense read the results and get rid of the 'smart' motorway.

Survey completed.


Question 8, I tried to answer as "other" and stated "only original hard shoulder addresses issue of emergency vehicle access".

Couldn't find the button for "other", so had to submit less than 100 mtrs.

Any one else have this issue please?

Totally playing Devil's advocate here.

I've been in a similar position and I'm sure there's a vast number of others who have as well.

Did you have enough distance to STOP in the distance you could see to be clear in your own lane?

But let me guess.... the lorry didn't move out when it was "safe" distance away which would have given you possibly 3 times the distance you needed (lorry weight + speed is going to need much more STOPPING distance).

And I absolutely know what it's like to break down and crawl to a refuge area. Been there, done that, got the underpants to show for it. :eek:

I keep harping on about space not speed. And, in general, we know the group of drivers that don't keep their distance - they're mentioned above.

I'd happily see a massive campaign of targeting "tailgating" lorries on the Motorway network with big incentives to change their behaviours. Perhaps the thought of being pulled off the motorway for a multi agency check of the vehicle, the load, the driver etc. etc. might be enough?

Glad that your skills kept you safe and you weren't involved in any sort of collision.

Take care out there.

Yes, and it nearly put me off completing the survey because I could not say what I wanted to do. The comments section never makes the stats in these surveys, so was it designed that way?

all it takes is a lorry or large vehicle which blocks your view of the traffic ahead to move out of the 1st lane into the 2nd to avoid a stranded vehicle too late. Even if you're following the lorry at a safe distance with adequate braking distance between yourself and the lorry, if the lorry moves over too late by the time it's trailer is out of the way of your view you're now right up behind the stranded vehicle, the stopping distance by that point would be too short, and add on reaction time you may end up too close to even avoid the stranded vehicle by changing lanes. Can happen to anyone, no one expects to see a stranded vehicle in a live lane of a motorway when the rest of the traffic is flowing at 70mph.

Not only would such situation be life changing for the stranded vehicle if the occupants are still in it, I feel for the driver who collides into the stranded vehicle. In a split second whilst driving perfectly safely you could end up in a situation where you've seriously injured someone or even killed someone, and your own fate could be the same. And if you survive the collision, you'd most likely be faced with a conviction for dangerous driving (as there's never such thing as a accident anymore, someone always has to be convicted) and even a prison sentence if someone is killed.

You don't have to be a bad or dangerous driver for this to happen to you, wrong place wrong time or a split second looking at your mirrors or focusing on one of the other cars around you and this can happen.

Thanks folks.

All completely sensible and valid. :}

It's why I headed it Totally playing Devil's advocate here.

Take care - it's scary out there :eek:.

Cheers.

It's as you say Rik.--If you are traveling at 70 mph and you glance down for 1/2 a second to check if you are speeding you will have travelled almost 100 feet in that time.---:eek::eek::eek:

Actually hitting a stationary vehicle at half that speed ( 35 mph. ) will often totally write off both vehicles.--

completed the survey then tried to copy and paste the link and url to another forum and cant as the survey says you have already taken it

macafee2

large vehicle overtakes and pulls in front but not leaving a 2 second gap or any view, they see the broken down vehicle and move to lane 2 but the following vehicle is even closer then the one in front, they may not be able to stop or swerve and through perhaps through no fault of their own pile into the stationary vehicle. I have posted before a link to a crash that I am sure has this scenario.

macafee2

Open it up in another browser or clear the cookies. ;)

Thanks for wanting to share this on another forum.

clever so and so, used a different browser and it worked so link no on another forum

macafee2

Not sure if it is the M42 but a smart motorway I use is a pain in the butt.
Hard shoulder open as a lane so I use it, then it becomes the exit for the next junction so I need to change lane. After the junction I'm back to using the hard shoulder only for it to become the exit for the next junction.

Should I lane hog and stick to the proper lane 1? Worse when towing the caravan

macafee2

Cameras on every bridge, so I wouldn't lane hog! Yes it is the M42 - only ever used it to attend the Pride of Longbridge, and I don't like it!

Right on bro! Stick to lane 2 (as it will be now) but you will have to match or be moving slightly quicker than lane 1 (was hard shoulder) traffic.

Kev

Funny how impatient people have become over the last 20 or so years. A few minutes on their journey time and they fume. I was always taught to put extra time into any journey undertaken to help alleviate hold-ups!

Those same intolerant motorists, I would hazard to guess, totally expect everyone to understand the difficulties when they breakdown.

Kev

That is one of the main issues with regard to non-hard shoulder motorways. If the next lane has a high volume of vehicles in it (particularly of HGV's) which need their safe stopping space preserved then you're put into a dangerous situation!

The elite are not bothered about the sorrows impacted on the family survivors but funnily enough talk a good game in the electioneering weeks.

Kev

A great point to demonstrate that as a driver you must absolutely not assume anything. And that driving where your view ahead is insufficient should be avoided at all costs. let me put it this way. If the (theoretical) lorry in front of you pulled an emergency stop (maybe partially aided by hitting an obstruction you can't see) could you stop in time? If the answer is 'probably not' then regardless of how big a gap between you and the lorry it's not enough. If you apply this thinking when unavoidably stuck behind a vehicle that blocks your view ahead, I'll promise you that you'll increase that gap to a point where if you ask yourself 'if the lorry infront swerves to avoid a broken down vehicle can I stop or swerve in time?' your answer to that will be 'yes'. Driving on motorways is a constant seeking of an empty bubble to drive in with clear view, especially forward. Not following x feet/metres behind any vehicle that blocks your view.



TL:DR - If you can't stop in the space between you and the vehicle in front obstructing your view then you're too close.

Quite agree, BUT how many times do you find the gap filled , or a tailgater pushing you to close the gap when you drop back.

If I get a tailgater I use the rear window blind. If that doesn't do the job, the hazards go on. If that doesn't do it, I drop 2 mph. (I also have an old Viking mascot from a P4. I'm tempted to drill the eyes and install red led's and a switch. The rear facing shelf would be used). When the tailgater finally overtakes, he is treated to a wide smile.

Well that's driving on busy roads for you. You have to always actively seek the space you need to be safe and drive defensively. You can't usually just choose a distance behind something and sit there for mile upon mile. Eventually something will change. Something behind, something coming into the gap between you and the vehicle in front, the vehicle in front changing speed or lane. Driving is constant effort: never let yourself believe otherwise.

[QUOTE=Avulon;2871691. Driving is constant effort: never let yourself believe otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Only because nearly everyone else is an idiot !

For years, that is the advice I have give both learners and qualified drivers, treat everybody as an idiot.

Here are the results, copied and pasted, for anyone who is interested:-

Smart Motorways survey results

Over 4,700 responses were received to our recent survey on smart motorways. Most respondents had already used them, so their comments and votes are very useful. The opinions expressed were overwhelmingly negative.

81% felt less safe on a smart motorway and the same number wanted the hard shoulder to be reinstated immediately. 85% supported the stopping of the building of any more smart motorways until the safety case is proven. Alarmingly 85% said that they would not trust the technology to protect them if they ever broke down in a live lane of a smart motorway. The vast majority also supported more frequent safety refuges or going back to a continuous hard shoulder. Slightly more positively, one in five IAM RoadSmart Members had seen some improvement in congestion because of smart motorways, and just over half felt that they knew what to do in the event of a breakdown.

Neil Greig has already shared some of these findings at a major safety conference which was addressed by Road Safety Minister, Baroness Vere, and senior people from Highways England. The findings will also be formed into a strong call to action in our response to the House of Commons Transport Committee inquiry that ends soon. Many thanks to all of you who took the time to respond. Such an overwhelming response from a group of drivers who are confident and knowledgeable about motorways gives us a really strong message to take back to the government.

That is not a very large sample and thus might be ignored by the Quango/Agency concerned.

Kev

I see that Highways England have launched their biggest ever motorway safety campaign, to help address this serious problem.
:smilie_re:https://highwaysengland.co.uk/about-...fety-campaign/

The major flaw is that it uses the song "Go West" by the Pet Shop Boys.
In fact, I cannot think of another song that reinforces which direction to go.
We all know the words well too. :duh:

You will be okay if you are northbound on say the M1, but will have big problems if you are southbound. ;)
Those of you on the M4 will be totally confused. :D

Nice one Highways England, I am glad that we are on top of all of this!:getmecoat:

High salary fees accepted. Blame passed on!

Kev

Go West is by The Village People. :D

The campaign just makes me wonder how stupid people have actually become or how stupid HM Gov't thinks we've become. :duh:

Message should be go a different route that doesn't involve playing Russian Roulette!

These type of road are death traps by design, whoever came up with the idea should be flogged.

I suspect a knighthood is more likely, government advisers, ah!!.