Tyre wear on EVs
 

Anyone remember the quote from the late, great Colin Chapman...

"Simplify then add lightness."

And what we "we" doing?.....

The result of a heavy battery and overuse of the rapid acceleration that is available.

We are all able to make our own choices. It's the half-truths and downright lies that irk me, all in the interests of supposedly 'saving the planet'. The money men thinking that all the people can be fooled all the time is a concern.

The uptake is proving to be, well, hesitant to say the least. It's a racket, but then this particular aspect of 'global warming' is another product of the motor trade after all. The fluctuating global temperature has been so for millions of years, how vain can we get? Doesn't anybody wonder why the 'pothole' phenomenon on such a scale is such a recent thing?

The showing off to neighbours seem to be the main driving force behind purchases. The financial rewards and practical downsides over buying I.C.E is virtually non existent . Im sure depreciation alone, will not cover the gains of low emmisions charges made in the capitol and other large cities. Let them get on with it ...:D

David, your numbers relate to top-end EVs that have V8 and upwards levels of performance - sub-5s 0 to 60 times and instant 600Nm+ of torque - and the drivers persistently using that performance. The 6k mile tyre replacement interval is similar to many petrol/diesel cars of equivalent performance. Try replacing the tyres on a Jaguar 3.0D XFS or an XFRS 5.0 Supercharged V8 or an equivalent German car and you will find that quality tyres for this level of performance are not cheap and represent a significant part of the overall maintenance cost. The 400 BHP I-pace's performance is similar to the XFR-S and most I-Pace drivers report 20k+ miles between tyre changes on the dedicated forums.

Articles by epyx and Fleetnews say that over a large number of fleet vehicles, EV tyres on average last 6000 miles less than ICE cars - 18k miles vs 24k miles. For the average private user, this will make little to no pracical difference because tyres are often replaced due to age, cracking etc. than due to mileage related wear.

EVs do not require annual oil changes and on average the brake discs/pads last three times as many miles as on ICE cars.

In my experience, EV buyers so far have been early adopters and such individuals tend to be quite intelligent people who do a lot of research and analysis before committing - this is my opinion of all the EV buyers that I know which is quite a few.

Of course everyone can have their own opinions, based on various personal characteristics, outlooks and beliefs, but usually the most informative and often the only useful opinions come from those who operate the types of vehicles in question and are therefore based on first-hand experience.

I assume you mean upsides, in which case most people who own an EV would disagree with the highlighted point.

That's probably true of the Jonny speed pants brigade but at my last service shortly before I sold the Gen 1 MG ZS EV it still had 5mm & above of tread depth after 3 1/2 years. The rotor discs & brake pads had virtually zero wear on them thanks to the regen.


I never used the sports mode on that car or have used it on this Gen 2 Trophy MG ZS EV, It's torquey enough without any sports mode for me, I'm not really interested in 0-60 times as the relaxing silent virtually one pedal driving is perfect for me.

Tyre wear on EV’s can be accelerated by heavy acceleration as the electric motor will deliver maximum torque instantly. But, if you drive a ‘fast’ ice car quickly the same will happen. On the plus side the money saved on brakes due to regen braking will pay for the new tyres

It's a pleasure to see a few members present a balanced and genuine knowledge based view of EVs.

For anyone genuinely interested in tyre and brake wear on EVs vs ICE, see:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric...an-petrol-and/

Certainly they are losing 30% depreciation over the 12 month timeline according to the list I posted in an earlier thread. Another downside is the safety of pedestrians at road junctions. If they are not extra vigilant an EV could collide with them as they are so much more silent.

The upside? Providing you have a driveway and have installed the charging point then it will be cheaper to fully charge an EV on domestic electricity priced units than a ICE vehicle. There used to be plenty of articles on how much a vehicle would cost over three years but as I don't take any motoring magazines anymore I'm out of touch really.
Kev

Comparing ICE’s with EV’s on a like for like basis is misleading on a grand scale. From initial purchase to trade in and uptake of 2nd hand cars, and of course fuelling, it is not like-for-like.

We are all at the mercy of energy providers and once again the money men are in charge. Does anyone see the very recent slight reduction in domestic energy prices as barely sufficient to repair the damage to household budgets? In a stroke they backed off due to widespread criticism and booming profits.

Overnight domestic charging for EV’s is at present relatively cheaper than liquid fuel and therefore attractive. In the trade it’s known as a ‘call bird’ – in other words a come-and-buy-me front. The energy providers can of course charge, to an extent, whatever they like and always respond to markets for their product. If and when market penetration by EV’s reaches optimum levels, er, well, ‘nuff said I think.

Legally, the resposibility for vigilance sits with the driver, not the pedestrian. The Highway Code update of 2022 brought in a heirarchy of responsibility with the most vulnerable the most protected. Still, that doesn't mean that pedestrians shouldn't be unaware. It goes both ways.



I get what you're saying though. The silence of an EV, unless the driver has it in tyre shredding mode, is a concern. Thought our former chums in the EU were going to bring in an audio warning for speeds lower that a certain threshold?

Many on here know that my dog, Quizzie, was a Guide Dog puppy which we had from 8 weeks old.

Not surprisingly the silence of EV's is a massive issue for those with sight impairment.

As my motorcycle instructor said....It doesn't really matter who is technically or legally at fault, it's you lying on the road.

Andy.

All EV's have to have a pedestrian warning noise by law that's on up to 12mph, The pedestrian warning sound on the MG ZS EV is really quiet & you really need to listen for it.

Really?

Does that apply to hybrids, too?

I’m not sure mine makes any noise.

I don’t know what deals are available from energy providers at the moment, but my experience of ‘economy 7’ type deals is that you get a reduced rate overnight, but pay a higher than normal price for the other seventeen hours of the day.

People saying that they only pay x-pence per KWh to charge their EVs could be misleading if you factor in any additional costs for their electricity.

It is caused by the "Doppler effect", When a sound source is moving away from you, the wavelength is "stretched" and hence the frequency is lowered, in your case, to a frequency that perhaps you can better hear

Yes, hybrids have to have a pedestrian warning it too. I couldn't hear in our MG ZS EV whilst driving off so I asked my missus to drive up & down the service road at less than 12mph & it's barely audible,
Once you've got your ear in to listen for it then you can hear it. It sounds like a synth sound, It's on by default & I'm not sure if you can turn the volume up in the menus.

Quite but I meant costing comparisons with other EV vehicles in the same class but a ICE vs EV comparison in the same type of class would not be a million miles off.
The unit of energy price might have reduced but the daily charge yet again increased. Thus reducing any saving.
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That is the present and historical situation. However, with "Smart Meters" the utility companies will have the ability to do variable charging. So what at the moment is a slack period and thus the can give cheaper tariffs if 90% of the vehicles are charged overnight then this may (and probably will) create a demand that cannot be met with our present energy baseload. How do they get over that? Charge more. :shrug:

I think we are basically singing from the same hymn sheet here. :D
Kev

Yes I know and have read the legal ruling that underlines this aspect. However, that has not stopped drivers ignoring their responsibility.
Yes and I think the auto industry does need to look into this seriously and come up with a solution or even a variety of them.
Kev

Bang on Andy. Also those with hearing impairment. Maybe some sort of automatic braking will be incorporated when the vehicle's proximity sensor identifies an object ahead or to the side. :shrug:
Kev

Maybe the earlier EV generation had none fitted? However, it is concerning that you and another poster has identified the "quietness" of the warning sound. That of course helps in reducing overall vehicle noise for the immediate environment but if it is so quiet as you say then it becomes next to useless and is just fitted to enable the manufacturer to tick the box set by regulators. :shrug:
Kev

I think you're right, Some of the early EV's didn't have the pedestrian warning sound, I've just had a look & there doesn't appear to be any way of adjusting the volume up,


You can turn it off (Not sure why you would want to if you cant hear it inside the car) but it resets to on every time you switch off the car.
I've had to sound the horn a couple of times when driving up the service road as people didn't hear me coming.



I was wrong about the 12mph! The pedestrian alert sounds from 0 to 19mph when accelerating and from 15 to 0 mph when decelerating.

Headline strap on TV GB News:

Latest developments: The Automotive Industry is now urging HM GOV to reduce VAT on EV’s by half as sales plummet.

I think a revolution of another kind is seeded. Maybe it will see scrappage schemes 'delayed' and a slight shift into reverse gear.

There are way too many subsidies for 'green' products.

They need to sink or swim.

There is huge disruption going on in the EV & legacy auto industry right now, The race is on for SDV's (software defined vehicles) with BMW teaming up with TATA motors to tap into India's software expertise & AUDI who have just invested $billions with Hyundai to make SDV technology jointly.



AUDI's CEO Döllner said that AUDI has started standardizing components and will gradually leave combustion-powered vehicle segments. “Significantly reduced sales volumes for combustion engines” are expected as early as 2026, he said, meaning it will no longer be economically feasible to continue building such vehicles.:eek:
https://www.carscoops.com/2024/04/au...erica-by-2033/



SAIC's JV's with VW & GM in China aim to slash jobs in EV factories & ICE factories.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ay-2024-03-31/

India, certainly good at programming scams! ;)

That is to be expected from all manufacturers. Perhaps we will be left with a company that will build modular ICE engines in certain categories (such as 4-pot, v6, v8 and such). This might allow some form of volume production.
Ahhhh, the global economy.
Kev

I got my other half to drive my car today while I had a listen for a 'noise'.

None detected :shrug:

My original Hyundai IONIQ hybrid didn't have a pedestrian warning sound, I think it was added at the facelift. All the current Hybrids we sell at the dealer group I work for have some sort of pedestrian warning sound.

My (company) Passat is only 14 months old, so I would expect it to be up to date - ish.

I've just had a look at a Passat forum and the only reference I found was from about 7 years ago and suggested that the E-sound was an optional extra.

i see Tesla have just sacked 10% of its workforce.
Uptake of Ev’s here in Australia have stalled at about 9% of driven cars and dealers in the US have car lots full of them and cant move them.
Hybrids make sense but all this take of eradicating diesel engines is stupidity,
tell the local farmer, where is he find an electric harvester with 500hp that runs day and night .
Politicians , Living in the land of make believe.
In Australia you could not leave a city area without a petrol of diesel car and any public charge stations a far and few out in remote areas- piweted by diesel generators - what a joke!

Yeah, no good for the outback but I wouldn't put 100% of the blame on just politician. Global money and environmentalists (living in utopia land) have promoted pressure groups which in turn political parties take note of. Remember not one of the G7 - G9 countries has mentioned it being a load of cobblers. We all would like a planet closer to net zero but we don't want to live in the stone age!
Kev

Hare in the Uk 95% of car journeys are under 10 miles. Most car owners probably only have a need to do one or two 100 mile journeys each year. The majority of people live in urban areas. An EV is ideal for such usage patterns. The issue is more one of mindset than practicality in most cases.

The thing about ‘mind set’ is that it is usually born of personal experience and therefore essentially valid, providing the view is considered rather than mere unsupported dogma. However, that is not the issue here.

It’s more one of commerce, and the shifting of dependency on volatile producers for wheels of all kinds to keep turning both literally and politically. Markets all over the world for such innovations are shrinking for a variety of reasons including current costs and what is around the corner when market saturation is reached – if it eventually does.

Witness the current news of highly volatile political climates, and even wars, causing factories to close with an aftermath of hundreds of unsold cars being stockpiled in fields. That’ll do the steel a lot of good! Once again the market is dominated by money men igniting fires and then selling the means of putting them out.

Not sure whether it was that Trump chap or Warren Buffet that coined that phrase, but it works!

Might I suggest the "pothole phenonomen" is nowt to do with global warming but everything to do with local authorities not spending the money on highways?

You couldn't be more right Dave. GW is being put out as a phenomenon that causes everything from spider's webs not being square to storms on Venus. Then, of course, the sensible habits of many lifetimes can be trashed in the name of the latest money earning scam that gets massive priority with new restrictions on lifestyles. Inevitably, costing more.

The truth is councillors, with few exceptions, are just not qualified to be overseeing huge sums of public money and are subject to various lobbying outfits with their own priorities. Many of them (councillors) have honourable intention but get stymied by the system.

Potholes? That's under highways infrastructure without a doubt. I can't see why there should not be a legal liability for all vehicular damage caused to vehicles being so affected. Funds to cover the liability could be diverted from the many 'woke' rubbish adventures that would no doubt receive public acclaim. Oh, and deserve another term in office next time. Pigs might fly.

Heh, heh, heh! At least in the UK we can point to another award winning innovation........the "Smart Motorway." :shrug:
Kev

David,

Do you have numbers for deaths in the USA during the same period due to cars without the "autodrive" feature driving into the backs of others whilst under human driver control?

Only a comparison of the numbers would allow meaningful conclusions to be drawn.

I am not a proponent of self driving cars, but use of the "autodrive" feature as an adaptive cruise control would surely be of huge benefit to the safety of road users?

you are totally right- i know someone here in Australia who works for a big oil, gas and mineral company. He is currently heading up that companies hydrogen project division.
I was talking to him re the large energy producers must be concerned with all this push for renewable energy. He stated, not at all, they see this whole renewable energy thing as a huge opportunity.
As he said- we make or have everything that is used in making renewable energy- copper, nickel, aluminium etc, its a whole new industrial revolution which
needs feeding !!!

Spot on!

Kev

And none of it is environmentally friendly - even battery production is destroying our world. A massive global population reduction is the only real way global warming could be reduced and mother nature allowed to recover.

Interesting read on batteries from another site .......

https://go.skimresources.com/?id=106...lick%20%5B2%5D

Yep, driven a couple of those lowdown container tanks, loaded up with liquid sugar & without baffles so they kicked me in the back all the way up the M1 to DIRFT.

Yep, seen the results when part of the 40 tonne of steel load going through the cab (non-gentle braking). Until each junction is provided with more cameras to catch the details of those loonies we will just have to "put up with it". How does one "zone out" after passing the last junction to the one you need to exit?

Answers to the head shrink mob! :D

Kev

Of course, none of the disinformation regarding EV's could possibly have been seeded by the giant oil companies and their subsidiaries. Never known for being crooks or underhand in anyway;)

Instead of propagating the myths why not talk to those that actually own an EV.
Most that I know are more than happy with their choice.

I'm pretty sure these same conversations took place when the infernal combustion engine came along and all the Horse and Cart industry were running scared :D

Now now, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story !

[

The truth is councillors, with few exceptions, are just not qualified to be overseeing huge sums of public money

.......and there we have it.

The End.

Just about the worst thing for me would be to be thought of as, or to be, bigoted. But I have to say the bubble is beginning to burst. Every day brings new adverse publicity about various implications regarding EV’s and bit by bit every day more factors emerge casting a cloud over the whole subject.

There’s no triumphalism in this, just the cold observation of respected sources gathering evidence of just how big this almighty confidence trick depends on gullibility for its foundation. Worse, the environment is being scandalously blamed for all the hype.

Witness in today’s Mail pages 31/32, Money Mail. It is without doubt excoriating news for future private transport costs and with that the whole economy. Tyre wear is irrelevant when the big picture is revealed. The entire project is exposed as usury (in the Shakespearean sense). Yes, I know, The Daily Mail! But it’s not invalid given the propensity for legal action by Big Biznis.

Blimey! https://www.mylespaul.com/styles/def...lies/shock.gif Get a load o this. "Phillips 66 announces that it has initiated the process for the sale of its retail distribution in Germany and Austria, which includes the Jet brand petrol stations. According to data from the Energy Information Service (EID), this affects 815 petrol stations in Germany and 154 in Austria. According to the Handelsblatt, industry experts are reckoning with a target sale value of 2.8 billion euros."

"The sale of petrol station networks has recently become more frequent. Shell is also planning to sell off around 1,000 locations, including petrol stations, this year and next year in order to focus more on the business with charging stations for electric vehicles. Gas station operator TotalEnergies had already sold its entire petrol station network in Germany and the Netherlands to the Canadian company Couche-Tard. This involved 1,198 petrol stations in Germany and 392 locations in the Netherlands. One of the reasons given for the Total sale was the planned phase-out of combustion engines in the EU from 2035."
https://www.electrive.com/2024/05/02...a-up-for-sale/

Like I said on several posts it's a battery on four wheels, it turns out to be four very expensive wheels!.