I can remember a time when it was very difficult to trade in Europe, if we ever took a machine over for demo we had to use a Carnet document which covered duty free import/export in to each country you passed through. Also, each and every country was using it's own currency another head ache. We dealt with an Italian company in euros long before it was in regular use.

Trade within the EU had become so much easier than it was before, even so you had to declare sold goods to VAT using form VAT 101 and include the EU companies VAT number and sales amount and send in to HMRC. I recall being fined for late filing due to waiting for their VAT number, in the end one VAT man told me, just send the form even the info is missing to avoid the fine.

Then we had BS and ISO, we had to ensure equipment met with the ISO standards also had a cost to doing that, often found our standard was higher than the ISO standard.

There has been a whole lot of benefit to UK business being a member and I assume many fear what might happen on exit, it does appear to me that there is no credible plan to put peoples minds at rest, much in the same way there was no clear directive which the electorate could base a good decision on prior to the referendum.

No we were sold down the swannee when Heath & co took us all for idiots and joined the EU.

The French didn't want us in the EU, I remember the 3 day week under Heath in 1974 when the coal miners were striking.

Blocking Migrants From EU
 

Well, one minute we are being told migration of eu citizens coming to the UK are good for the economy and are net contributors yet, TM wants them to have no rights during the transition period :shrug:

I`m extremely sad that the UK leaves the EU.
I`m always wondering what are the real attitudes over here about - yes or no?:shrug:
Estimate.

Hi, it's unfortunate in some respects because, many people who voted to leave won't be affected by leaving the EU, IMO it should have been a vote decided by younger folk who's future may well be affected.

My own view as I'm in the older category, if it creates harmony and avoids war then let it be however, I do believe the better way forward may have been to re negotiate our position and remain.

The governments target on immigration 100,000 remains at close to 250,000 and includes many none EU migrants. We are a small Island and can't continue under such pressure on our NHS, schools, housing and benefit system, these pressures can spark racism and therefore remains a delicate topic.

In terms of GDP, we're one of the wealthiest nations on the planet, yet our health service is underfunded & there are large 'vacancy-factors' for most of our public services.
If we're so good, why can't we actually afford to fully-fund our public services & better-fund the NHS in the position we're in now & who thinks things are actually going to improve the instant we leave the EU.?

I wouldn't have joined the EC all those years ago, because of what we lost & who we turned our backs on,
BUT now that we've done it,
I certainly wouldn't be looking to leave it now & turn our backs to the trading block we do almost 50% of our business with.?

It's not in the EU's interest to give us a good deal on exit fees or trade deals for 2 reasons;
1. They must, by their own constitution, do the best deal possible for their member states, of which we will no-longer be one.
2. As was mentioned earlier, the collective EU needs to send a signal to other member states, that there can be no easy-ride for leavers.

Boris & others of his ilk, who said the EU is bound to give us a good deal, is talking out of his hat (which may actually be covering his butt.?) if he thinks that ONLY the UK can supply the EU with the products & services we currently do.
We have a reputation for quality goods & services, but with a 25% WTA tariff on those products, it will be in the interest of venture-capitalists to look at the low wage economies of Portugal & Greece, to see if companies can be set-up there to provide the EU with what we currently do, but at lower overhead costs AND tariff-free.?

We do send around £350 million week to the EU, but they send us around £150 million a week to pay for various projects which they fund.
I would imagine that we'll still be paying around the £200 million mark to the EC, should we end up with a Norway-style associate partner status wit them.
So we won't be any better off financially & we'll no-longer have a say in how the rules & laws are made nor involvement in future planning.

IF I was in charge of Brexit & I really wanted to make it work, (which I'm not & I don't) I'd have been using EC development funding to improve our infrastructure & looking to regenerate mass-manufacturing over the last 10 years, so that we're in a position to hit the ground running, once the exit door closes behind us.
Instead we've got about a year to plan it, but because the final deal isn't yet arranged, businesses & government can't even do that properly yet, because what they're actually planning for isn't yet nailed down.?

My last point is that Northern Ireland voted Remain overall, but because it's attached to an EU nation, it looks like the effective border will be 'fudged' out into the Irish Sea. Making the island of Ireland almost one nation & if it's actually successful in that form, it makes the unification of Ireland much more likely.
Also, Scotland voted overwhelmingly to Remain, not long after it narrowly voted to remain in the Union. Once Brexit happens, it's very likely that they will hold another referendum, citing the substantive changes in the status-quo since their last vote. Should that vote happen, I believe that they will leave the Union.
With both the Scots & probably the Northern Irish gone, it will have fallen to the supposed party of the Union, to have presided over the break-up of the Union, just to satisfy the original problems of internal squabbling within the Conservative party.?

If you've bothered to read to the end of this rant,
:rant: :rant: :panic: :panic: :mood: :panic: :panic: :rant: :rant:
I'm truly sorry for inflicting it upon you,
but at least I feel better for it.

(& to be honest, I'd be very, very happy to be proved wrong,
but I fear that we've gambled the house, car & farm on this, so there isn't really a fall-back position, if it looks like it's not working out as we'd hoped.?)

I see no point to this really - you will never persuade darceydog , MGJohn and various others that there is any other valid point of view other than theirs.

So what's the point:shrug:

They may be wrong, but no one can prove it, and they can't prove they are right so it's all pointless

A polite, but honest exchange of views is never pointless,
though I fully accept that if no-one compromises on their starting points, it is definitely fruitless.

It was more about me 'venting' than anything else,
but if someone can actually show me the flaws in my thought process,
I'd be a lot more relaxed about the future.!!

I suspect sadly you won't get it here - everything is going to be absolutely amazingly brilliant and if you disagree then 200 posts from about 3 people disagreeing will eventually wear you down to the point where you will decide there is more to life. So it's all going to be brilliant, honest..... and let's get back to cars :)