Time to rethink Diplomatic immunity
 

wife of a US diplomat has fled Britain because she is suspected of involvement in a fatal hit-and-run.

I appreciate that the rule may be there to prevent false charges against diplomats and their families but it should not allow them to evade justice.

How to make sure false charges are not crated while making them accountable for their actions will take some consideration, it does however need doing.

this post refers to according to press reports :-
The death of a young man, Harry Dunn, 19. He was on his motorbike and hit by a car being driven on the wrong side of the road, near RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire. It was a head-on crash and the young man died of his injuries in hospital

shame on the US

macafee2

Diplomatic immunity is abused for money laundering, drug smuggling and anything else you can think of.

It happens all the time, all over the world.

Bit suspicious that she disappeared after assuring police she had no plans to leave the country.

tongue in cheek, she didn't at the time, her plans changed and the two are not connected. I should be a politician.

I hope it becomes news in the USA and the people there do something about it...extradite her. I hope our government do all they can to get her back and if she is guilty of a "crime" she is given an additional sentence for trying to evade justice but she may voluntarily return to face questioning


macafee2

A new slant on The Diplomatic Bag.

Apparently Diplomatic immunity is rarely waived.

macafee2

BBC is reporting that the story has struck a chord with a lot of Americans who don't think its right that she can hide behind diplomatic immunity.

'Our' diplomatic establishment is not exactly famous for its aggressive approach to foreign law breakers. More inclined to quietly file it under 'NFA'. USA embassy owes millions in fines and London traffic zone non-payments. They could start by dis-inviting that pompous twerp of their ambassador that lords it here in his grace and favour palace. He is the overall boss of US diplomacy here, yet not a word has he said. Redundant. 'Diplomatic bag' should be reserved for strategic and confidential information only. In other words, what you can get in a briefcase.

Diplomatic Immunity should only apply where a Host State wishes to move against a Diplomat. If a Diplomat (or anyone covered by DI) "offends" against the laws of the Host, then DI should not apply.

Some of our guys had speeding fines from France recently, they should apply for Diplomatic Immunity from paying only fair. :D

Rev.

I don't think the fact that Brian is the self declared president of the People's Republic Of Tyneside would qualify as being a diplomat and let's face it diplomacy isn't his strongest point :D

The expenses fiddlers have had a least since April 1984 to negate this happening again but they have been preoccupied with apparently ... well, hmm? :shrug:

:smilie_re: Looking on the positive side, would the English courts and system on recent and maybe not so recent past performance deliver justice on behalf of a victim better than the American equivalent if it comes to pass? :getmecoat:

Bags of fun
 

Funny you should say that...I used to potter about with the British Council (amazing people doing priceless bond-building work) and 'The Bag', to my immense surprise was a concept not a thing. Turned out you could (back then) send anything through a bag, from a pen to an aircraft carrier and yes, on several occasions, me!

Apparently I was an awkward load :D

Entirely for the sake of clarity I would like to point out the very last thing I was intending was that any reference to a 'bag' was completely without suggestion as to the morals of the escapee, sorry, third party. I am sure the lady is beyond any criticism whatsoever and is a model of tact and diplomacy. The fact that she broke the law by lying and fleeing the country after giving an assurance to the police that she would remain (sorry about that word) for further enquiries to be made is moot. She has not been charged with anything and not found guilty by a court. At the moment her national leader is watching developments with interest in case any fake news breaks out, even from reputable sources. So that should be OK then. Phew.

Trump spoke about it at a press briefing, he said US officials will speak to her . . . . but . . . . a photographer captured a pic of Trump's briefing notes which stated she would not be returned to the UK.

I think I'm right in saying that you can't extradite anyone from the US, but they can extradite a UK citizen across the pond. Remember the recent cases over alleged young hackers here. Funny that.

True, but they didn't have Diplomatic Immunity.

Sent from my LG-M200 using Tapatalk

Comes back to 1 rule for them, and one for everybody else.

It's called extraterritoriality, US laws apply anywhere in the world (when it suits them!)

Apparently the Foreign Office now confirms Anne Sacoolas does not have diplomatic status. She has also said she would like to meet the family of the deceased to express her sincere condolences.

news this morning on the radio, also apparently her solicitor is saying she does not have immunity. In that case we should be applying for extradition and if she receives a penalty for the death the police/courts should also examine if she was trying to avoid justice and if she was, add a bit for that.

I would have expected that the police could have been able to check on the day, if someone has diplomatic immunity. If there is no system in place to check then one should be created

macafee2

I've just read she has no immunity only because she has said she will not be leaving USA. Therefore, according to the USA, the question of dip immunity is no longer relevant. ? Sounds very much like US lawyer double speak. They'll probably get a hit TV series out of it with Cruise or Madonna.

The $ is very heavily propped up courtesy of more than a bit of goodwill from some parts of the world. The yanks do have a lot of national debt and without the sub for their currency, a sub which some think is not fair and should be shared among other currencies, their economy and the lifestyle they take for granted might not fair so well. They need to be encouraged to drag themselves out of the gutter which some of them aspire to and which puts them on the very same pedestal of shame as Gaddafi's Libya of April 1984. Shame on all concerned ... you are not smart and you bring disgrace on the vast majority of decent Americans. :flushed:

In the news today: The deceased's family lawyer says there is a well known and comprehensive list of all those eligible for Dip Immunity to enable necessary procedures to be adopted in the event of the question arising.

Neither the driver, nor her 'diplomatic attache' husband, are among the some 20,000 names on it. Therefore it has been known since the accident whether or not she was entitled because her husband was definitely not and therefore not entitled to Dip Immunity. The lawyer also says this revelation also has a number of consequences. I should say so.

One thing of concern is the allegation that the missing husband is a member of USA security, read secret, services. Also, was he in the country legitimately and what were the circumstances surrounding his leaving (and leaving his wife to face the music?). Another thing of concern is the identity and source of the individual who first put it about that it was an Immunity matter.

The Foreign Office now state 'the matter is now in the hands of police and the Crown Prosecution Service'. Our PM says the US has been 'absolutely ruthless' in its safeguarding of their citizens.

Are we now getting into matters that might arouse some official sanction of reporting? I wish UK defence of its citizens might be similar, but deplore the 'absolutely ruthless' activity of the US state. I'm conflicted, I wonder who else is.

On the other hand, I do wish everybody would behave responsibly, respectably and truthfully, and just damn well own up when they flagrantly do something wrong - like killing somebody. Causing a death should mean automatic disbarment from any list, no matter whom or why, or wherever.

I agree with yours about many Americans. The antics and various habits of some influential or entertainment-based individuals are by no means typical of the general population, just as the same applies here.

Some years ago we were in Hawaii and found ourselves stranded at the far end of the island. Some US service men and their wives, they had 'borrowed' a base troop carrier, took us the full length of the island, miles out of their way. It was the most enjoyable trip ever, with much mutual mockery of national stereotypes. Their helpless laughter at my impersonation of John Wayne was a joy. Strangely, they were not impressed with my Tonto. We still correspond with two of them some 15 years later. It is a land of great pride let down by a few renegades.

the whole situation is sad. For members of the public, like with anything important, how the naughty word are we to know what the truth is and how are we to make an informed decision?
The news reporting is telling us different things.

macafee2

The truth is there is no such thing and can be many things. The truth is whatever we are told by those that assume they know best. That's the benefit of a free press and why it is so valuable.

It's also why the internet can be a good thing used badly. It's easy to plant a seed and watch it grow whilst assuming no responsibility for the outcome. Exactly what the other thread on Extinction Rebellion is about.

Using impressionable or immature minds to proselytise a new or alternative religion is easy because they are largely too young to have experienced the phenomenon. When they mature it's too late, the damage is done and the instigators have moved on. It usually has leaders that continually reinvent themselves to start newer religions that they can exploit. That's the truth.

Too true. Take the popular music industry. How many older people measure their lives by memories of the songs they knew in their teens? And derive great pleasure and nostalgia from it? Those simple school-yard skipping songs were mass marketed to a simplistic youthful audience

The influences stayed with them all their lives and coloured their view of the world. Many of those songs were 'torch' anthems and have become hymns to wasted youth! There are great similarities of method with current influences.

Meat loaf advises, "wasted youth is better by far then a wise and productive old age":D

macafee2

He can advise what he likes. I prefer the strategy of waste what you want to waste but have the sense to keep an eye to the front. Up to the age of 19 my youth is a blur. And I wouldn't have missed it for a world of promises. Come to that, I wouldn't mind having it all over again now that I'm old enough to know how much you can get away with.

It's not so much the remembering of the decade, just the odd flash of embarrassment and the knowledge that nobody from those days would recognise you now so you got away with it. Not speaking personally of course.

According to news this morning the "suspect" was in a room next to the one the family were in talking to Mr chump
It was only the intervention of their lawyer that prevented them coming face to face with her. Apparently the US security adviser told him there is " Categorically no way she will ever return to the UK". Shame on the U S, she should be extradited d i or not.
They would persue to the end of the earth any British person suspected if crime in the U S.:mad:

I don't think it's a flight of fancy to suspect that if she ever did return to UK there could be a court hearing where her husband could be forced to give evidence. Embarrassing, to the USA, questions might be asked which could reflect badly on various other matters. Just saying...

Just seen a report that the parents were offered a meeting in the White House and that the driver was actually in the room next door! They, er, declined, as they had no legal or supportive rep there, and no record of proceedings, and it felt like coercion. I should say so. used to be called a 'bumms rush'. Rather crude attempt to coerce I think. Difficult to believe that they actually think we are stupid. So clumsy.