South of France
 

Hi
I am asking on behalf of my dad, now 84, who is the proud and sentimental owner of a 2001 Rover 75 2.5 V6 auto RHD. It is in good condition, 40K on the clock BUT it has been very rarely used and now has some overheating/water leak issues.

Dad is in the Cannes area in the south of France (I am in the UK) and is moving back to the UK in the next few months.

He took it to a local garage but they don't seem to have fixed the issue. Is there anyone in the south of France who can advise on a reputable place that he can take it?

Prior to joining the group, one helpful person has already pointed out how to know where the leak is coming from. But Dad is a bit forgetful and needs some help to figure it out and know where to take it.

We were so looking forward to our road trip back to the UK together and now it looks more likely the car will return on the back of a truck! Therefore any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Hello Fiona,

If your Dad's Rover V6 is taken to a garage there's a real risk that they will use the dreaded K-Seal (or equivalent) in the cooling system and that will be the end of his pride and joy so please don't do that.

I can offer you some suggestions which may enable you to enjoy your road trip home together after all. I have owned a V6 for 17 years, I do all my own repairs and I have solved the problems your Dad's car has.

1. Overheating
The most common cause of this is trouble with the radiator's electric cooling fan. To find out, start the engine from cold then press the 'windscreen demist' button on the air con./heater control panel. Now walk to the front of the car and you should hear the radiator fan running continuously. If you don't, please report back for further advice.

2. Coolant leak
As b152krz has said, if you have access to a small socket set remove the two 8mm screws holding the cover on the top of the engine (it's the moulding surrounding the oil filler cap). Shine a torch through the "bunch of bananas" aluminium pipes and if the light reflects back to you from red/pink liquid then you've found the leak.
If it's not serious you can make the journey back to the UK equipped with plenty of coolant to replace the loss. To check, look into the expansion tank and if you can see a tab marked 'MAX' almost at the base, top-up the coolant to meet that mark. Then drive the car around locally and re-check the level the next morning when the engine is absolutely cold. Let us know the result please Fiona.

Simon

Oh, I almost forgot, :welcome: to the club!

Thank you both bl52krz and SD1too.

This is the email from the garage:
The Problem with the car is the Water Tank is leaking water,, So we changed the Expansion Tank and Cap and now the car is running ok But the Tank is now will leaking water but only a small amount before it was poring water out when running

This is because the car is Pressurizing THE WATER system maybe Head Gasket to change or May need another Engine

The other Problem is Timing Belt and Water pump and Belts needs also to be changed which also is a big job and expensive

I will pass your information on to dad. I am going back to France on Thursday and will revert back thereafter if not before.

Thank you again.

Any garage/workshop worthy of the name should be able to carry out a block test - the drive belts are another issue.

Clearly they are heavily suggesting it's all just not worth it, can't be bothered.

Hope you find a professional repairer who will look at the vehicle and take the time to properly diagnose any faults present.

Thank you Costa Fortuna.

That is what my dad thought too so the plan at the moment is to have it towed to another garage which has been recommended by a friend. But in the meantime, we will look into the previous suggestions and try to get to the bottom of the issue ourselves.

If it's pressurising the coolant it might well be an airlock. I would suggest bleeding the system.

Sent from my SM-A326B using Tapatalk

now it looks more likely the car will return on the back of a truck!


If it is covered by a breakdown service and would be at no cost to yourself that's the way I would go.


It's all well and good a garage without sufficient knowledge of the intrinsics of your dads car hopefully fixing it for a long South of France to the UK journey.


They can be fickle beasts in other than a knowledgeable persons hands.


What has been described by the garage could be simply that it needs bleeding, the correct way in the correct sequence, there are other ' simple ' causes of the problem, but is it worth the chance of them ' fiddling at the corners,' only to break down halfway home.


There have been quite a few members who have has similar pressurising problems that their garage, or garages couldn't fix, yet after being talked / walked through the correct process there problem has been solved.


Good luck.

Thank you for your reply Fiona. The garage's response is not a surprise but almost certainly the wrong diagnosis. It's extremely unlikely to be a head gasket problem on a V6 (this afflicts only the 1.8 engine but garages do not distinguish between the two). Talk of a replacement engine is frankly ridiculous.

The garage seems to be saying that the coolant is being ejected through the expansion tank cap, there being no mention of a leak in the 'V'. This could simply be the result of a faulty radiator fan as I mentioned last time. I would urge you to get the test I described done as soon as possible to either confirm this or rule it out.

The necessity to bleed the system only occurs after it has been drained for repair work, so if none has been done then an air lock is unlikely.

Jon also asks this:
If the overheating is very rapid, irreversible and occurs irrespective of road speed then yes, that is a possibility, although a rare one. Check the radiator fan operation first.

I agree with your plans to do whatever you can yourselves and to not use that garage again. I look forward to the next bulletin!

Simon

There must be Landrover Dealers in the area - find one, they will be tooled up for the Freelander which had the same engine fitted.

https://abc-cannes.concession-landrover.fr

bienvenue dans votre concession land rover cannes Notre équipe est à votre disposition pour vous accompagner lors de l’achat de votre véhicule Land Rover. Découvrez sur notre site la gamme et les dernières nouveautés Land Rover , les occasions Land Rover récentes ou nos véhicules neufs d



Might be worth a try if still in operation.---:D

Co-ords.---43,574849, 7,009751

Thank you all for your replies and advice. I am in France but my focus is packing up dad's life in order to get him back to the UK.

The car isn't overheating and dad now says it is not leaking. It is very difficult for me to know what's what. I am not a mechanic 🤣 and dad is not very reliable at the moment.

I really appreciate the advice and it is booked into a different (recommended garage) for a second opinion. I will pass on all advice to the garage. Fingers crossed.

Thank you again and much appreciated.

Thank you Colvert and Costa Fortuna. Do you think it is worth contacting the Land rover garage rather than a recommended garage by a friend of his.

Sorry, this site is very difficult to navigate on a phone ��.

I love your giraffe ��. Coming from Africa, it makes me smile.

Hi all. I have looked at the car this morning. The fan (if that is the one behind the front grill) is running continuously.
The car is still leaking. I have taken a photo but can't find how to attach it. It is dripping down from the bottom of the grey block (radiator?). But I don't think that's the source of the leak, if that makes any sense. Sorry, not a mechanic 🙃

Thanks for this Fiona. If you carried out the test I described in post no. 3 (start the engine from cold and press the windscreen demist button) then the radiator fan (yes, it's behind the front grille) should run continuously so it's working correctly. :}
That makes perfect sense. Can you start the engine again please and look carefully at the coolant filler cap. Is there any sign that the leak is coming from there? If so, the top of the plastic tank should have some powdery dried antifreeze (like pink talcum powder!).

Simon

Thank you for you reply Simon. It is wierd. It is dripping not from the radiator but a metal bar behind it and the liquid is yellow. The coolant reservoir was just replaced so is new and there is no powder around the cap.

What is weird is a small amount of liquid running down from the right hand side, to the right of the bolt, of the black box (sorry 😣) that has the V6 badge on it. I don't think it can be coming from above.

I wish I could attach pictures, it would make more sense to you!

Thank you all for your help and guidance. We have made a decision that we will put the car on the back of a truck and bring it back to the UK to be looked at. With dad's move, it is just getting too stressful.

Is anyone able to recommend a garage to take it to. Dad will be in Virginia Water, Surrey.

Thank you again.

Don't take it to a garage just yet Fiona. I'm about 20 minutes from Virginia Water. If you'd like me to, I could have a look for you (no charge).
You can let me know by Private Message.

Simon :}

Thread update
 

I have received a PM from Fiona. It turns out that the logistics are a bit more complicated and we're discussing how to deal with them.

Simon

Thank you Colvert. Hopefully we can find a solution.

Update: UK arrival
 

Fiona's Dad's car arrived at Virginia Water today from France and I was there to meet it.

The expansion tank has been overfilled by the garage in France after they fitted a new one and consequently there are signs of ejection through the cap valve. There are also the classic pools of coolant in the 'V'. I was able to see the position of the serrated clips and one of them is not in the correct position. ;) The radiator fan is working on slow speed.

At the moment, it looks as if all that's needed is a set of new 'O' rings followed by the special KV6 bleeding procedure. Not wanting a repeat of what Fiona was told in France, I offered to do this work for her and she has accepted.

I'll post further updates when appropriate.

Simon

Simon,

Will you be undertaking the task alone or inviting along those with different views on the root-cause of these leaks so that Fiona can experience the air of camaraderie and mutual respect first hand?

Sorry, but could not resist. :laughing2::laughing2::laughing2:

Someone's been in here before. I've found loom clips not attached, tie wraps cut and not replaced and inlet manifold screws of varying tightness. It's all a bit of a mess.

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...a80f63dc8c.jpg

Most significant though is that the serrated clip at the water pump end hadn't been tightened at all. I can spin it with my little finger! :eek:

Simon

Come on quick please with the latest. Couldn't sleep last night. Can we skip to the happy ending?

I agree. Then we can all get on with the really exciting part - the debate about how Simon should have done the job!

I have never been near a KV6 but already have my critique all prepared. :D:}

Interesting discoveries. Shame we can't really see the thermostat housing.

I also found that some bolts were tighter than others when removing the inlet manifolds last week (not my work), but I also remember a post by perhaps Lovel where he mentioned the need to check the bolts a week or two after reassembly.

Any evidence of water permeating the inlet gaskets?

Keep well

:laughing2: That would be nice Dave.

The latest is that gloopy black mastic had been applied, presumably by the garage in France, to parts of the inlet manifold gaskets and to all the 'O' rings. The curved pipe was stuck fast and it took me an hour to get it off but I managed not to damage it. :}

I now know that no attempt had been made to tighten both the serrated clips. Only the 'O' ring at the base of the thermostat housing had flattened. Those on the straight and curved pipes were in good condition. I'll renew them all of course.

Now where have I come across that before Maninder? :D ;)
Let me know what you're interested in Mike and I'll see what I can do.
:eek: Wow, you'd have to be dedicated to do that! On my own car I tightened them to the specified torque and have never had any problems. ;)
No. The LH was rippled at the top and had elastomer failure above no. 5 port but the coolant channels were protected. The RH gasket cleanly broke in two as I withdrew the manifold. Fiona has reported that the temperature gauge hit the twelve o'clock position on at least one occasion.

Tomorrow's jobs will be to clean the manifold faces, remove the black sealant from the coolant pipes and order new parts!

To everyone who posted today, thanks for your professional interest. :disco:

Simon

The latest
 

I thought you might like to see what I've been dealing with today; the black gunge!

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d4fe429cb2.jpg

The water pump inlet:
https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d4fe4ce4f4.jpg

Simon

Plenum chamber puzzle
 

Has anyone else got this, a rubber seam strip floating below the seam with extremely messy rubberised adhesive stuck to the panel above it:

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...e99893703f.jpg

Simon

Edit the following day:
I've discovered today that the loose rubber seam strip pictured should be attached to the rear of the splash shield and not crudely stuck to the bulkhead with black rubberised sealing compound.

Bless you for helping them, Simon.

Glenn

Not a factory fitment that's become displaced then Jon?

Simon

Thank you for your kind comment Glenn. :bowdown:

Simon

And a well done for your kind help from me too Simon. :bowdown:

Thank you very much Willy. :}

Yesterday evening I removed Mr. & Mrs. Mouse's bed from the plenum chamber and in doing so I noticed that the drain tube below the pollen filter was missing. As it appears to traverse a double skin in the bodywork I would like to obtain a replacement so I've posted in the "Parts wanted" section.

I've also received authorisation to change the engine oil which is jet black, gloopy and probably overfilled as everything else was (coolant, PAS fluid). The car will also receive a pair of new bonnet struts.

Simon

Sometimes the top of the plenum drain tube can be pushed inside the gap it sits in when rodding is attempted Simon. It might not be visible on casual inspection but on close inspection it can often be seen sitting beneath the surface and still retrievable with long-nose pliers or maybe another improvised way. Could this have happened, is the bottom of the tube still in place and visible from underneath the car?

Thanks for this Willy. I am always interested in the unexpected solution not involving purchasing of parts.

I did crawl under the car this afternoon but had real difficulty seeing the drain tube on the offside which is still in place. On the nearside, when viewed from above, there is no evidence of a tube. I can clearly see through the double skin to beneath the car. I've taken a photo but it hasn't made it to the cloud yet. When it does, I'll post it.

Thanks for your suggestion.

Simon

PS A kind club member is donating a drain tube so that Fiona's Dad's plenum chamber can once again discharge rainwater as designed.

The happy ending!
 

Well, Fiona's Dad's car is fixed! Let's remind ourselves of the diagnosis by the garage in France:

The only reason that the expansion tank was "leaking" was because the garage overfilled it. It even ejected coolant after being driven the 50 yards from the trailer to my house! I removed 0.65 litres in order to see the 'MAX' marker. You'd have thought that they'd have noticed that marker whilst pouring in the antifreeze solution but apparently not. :rolleyes: There was also evidence that they hadn't bled the system properly, if at all. I'm sure that there was never anything wrong with the expansion tank.

In the 'V' there were the usual pools of coolant. I fitted four new standard MG Rover 'O' rings to the original thermostat housing and pipework after painstakingly removing the black gunge that a garage had smeared over everything. The housing was not the original and no attempt had been made to tighten the two serrated clips on the straight pipe so it was not surprising that the 'O' rings were leaking.

Since the inlet manifold gaskets have an elastomer seal, when removed I always fit new ones. The deteriorated originals in this case showed some evidence of engine overheating.

Other faults rectified

• The battery was too small so the clamp and safety strap had been left disconnected! As this was potentially dangerous I obtained a new '100' size battery (so that the lid could be fitted) at an attractive Black Friday price.
• The mouse's nest was removed from the plenum and the missing drain tube found, cleared and refitted.
• The bonnet struts were weak so were renewed. The bonnet release was extremely tight and it was also a real effort closing it. Both strikers were found to be bent, one severely. They were also out of adjustment and completely devoid of grease. Once all these faults had been rectified the bonnet can now be closed with a little finger! :D
• Leaking crankcase breather tube renewed, PAS fluid level reduced to 'MAX' line, engine oil & filter changed and all tyre pressures reduced to the correct setting.

I've test driven the car and it runs with its coolant temperature in the low nineties with no coolant leaks or ejection through the cap. The fan cuts in at 100˚ and out again at 95˚. So no head gasket replacement or change of engine was required! :rolleyes: What a surprise.

Fiona learnt about our club through an English contact in France. I'm so pleased that she followed this up with her call for help as otherwise this Copperleaf Connoisseur with only 54,000 on the clock would have been destroyed on economic grounds or further bodged by "professional" mechanics.

:getmecoat:

Simon

A real success story Simon! :xmas-smiley-008:

Fantastic, Simon. Well done for you!

The world needs more Simons. Say, your last name isn't Templar by any chance, is it? :icon_biggrin:

Cheers,
Glenn

Thanks Glenn. :D Ahh, that Volvo P1800 was product placement before the term was invented.

Simon

Yes I would be interested as well:xmas-smiley-008:

Ah yes. :cool: In darkness I stopped on a quiet street, got out of the car and carried out a visual alignment check. Not ideal by any means but the best I could do. I couldn't detect any headlamp aim into oncoming traffic.

The person who cleared the owner's garage in France told me that no spare parts, such as RHD headlamps, were found. It's a puzzle because I can't imagine the Rover passing the French equivalent of an MOT with dazzling headlamps. Would I be right?

We'll find out when it's put in for its UK MOT.

Simon