I think Jules somewhere on this post recomends lowering the header tank and syphoning the oats out to a level that will allow you to cut the pipe without loseing any anti freeze,fit the stat and refill with removed antifreeze ,:} simples

Hi Jules. You're absolutely right. And albeit Jude likes a cold cabin she's over the moon at this price. :D
Of course I had to tell her how much fuel we would save etc etc ;)

Also got me wheel key this morning Jules, thanks loads mate.

All the best. Steve.

Out of curiousity at what temperature does the ECU put the 'choke' in? I realise it my be a gradual process as the engine warms, but...?

It's a diesel. There is no choke.

Well I put my order in, so that's one closer to 10 (if it's not already past that). Thanks again Thomas.

That's probably me, I live in Newcastle. I've got a grey ZT.

Don't suppose you know a good mechanic in town for Rovers? I've used James Connolly in the past. Seems to know his Rovers (should do, he drives a 75 himself), his labour rates seem very good and he doesn't mind you supplying your own parts. The only thing is he's all the way out by the airport.

Hi,

Thanks to everyone who has researched this, can anyone order one or do we need to have reserved one and do we order through the email address.
Thanks
stuart

Method
 

JAKG, no, you do not just do one cut through the pipe. The in line housing which I used is approx 4" long overall so if you only did one cut the hose would be forced into contact with the radiator matrix which is not advisable. You cut as close to the engine block as possible allowing for a good joint and then you will need to make a second cut towards the radiator but before you reach the 90 degree bend area which will allow the new housing to be inserted. The piece I cut out was approx 1 1/2" long. I would recommend stainless steel hose clips obtainable from Halfords.
UPDATE, another 70 mile round trip and the fuel consumption is the same as before, no improvement but nice and warm! (Just over 50mpg)

blimey in an auto! is that brim to brim?

Was there any problem in cutting the pipe? Is it particularly tough? I'm guessing a new Stanley knife blade will be enough. Or would you tool up with something a bit more meaty?

I ask as I am ready to go.....

http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/pictures/Meziere1.jpg

http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/pictures/Meziere2.jpg

http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/pictures/Meziere3.jpg

http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/pictures/Meziere4.jpg

http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/pictures/Meziere5.jpg

:D

Here's hoping for not horizontal rain tomorrow morning!

Cutting
 

I used a junior hacksaw but a sharp blade will not produce any rubber granules so is probably the best bet. Difficult to make a straight cut though?
The pipe is reinforced with fibres but cuts ok.

50 mpg? that is my normal reading on my 'test run' but it doesn't include
the local running in London.

Hello !

No anyone can order and ladies and gents production has commenced!

well I might make 50mpg on the trip comp due to ron box fooling the calculation but i've never done it in 'real life' I'm hoping for an improvement with new stat!

What about a bread knife.... No please stop laughing :D ..... It may give an angle for a straighter cut than a Stanley knife and the serrations may help with the fibres. Not the old fashioned ones with the hacksaw blade edge mind! You might as well use a .... hacksaw. :getmecoat:

Even better an electric bread knife, that would slice through it it no time. The problem with the stanley knife is that it's to small and you would not get a nice even cut.

Stubs

Flow rate
 

It is useful,of course, to discuss possible problems when performing modifications but, regarding the restrictions on flow openings I would point out that the bore of the pipe which enters the radiator is 28mm
at the most. The same as the Chevvy thermostat and probably the Mini
one too.
ROSSOCORSA, The difference between my brim to brim readings and the onboard readings with a Synergy 1 fitted is less than 2 mpg.
The last figures were for my usual test run on A and M roads. I am hoping that the readings for local traffic only show an improvement with the higher running temperature.

In preparation for testing my new thermostat yesterday I drove a route of largely 'open' road to see how long my car took to come up to temperature. I mapped the route onto Google maps and took the temp reading at points I could identify later.

The temp read the same as ambient air temperature (14ºc) when I started. I wound my way to the main road and after @1mile (at @30mph) already it read 40ºc.

By the time I had covered 2.6 miles it read 50ºc

It reached 60ºc (and close enough to my normal running temperature) by the time I had at total of 4.1 miles. Since that was running at relatively slow main road speed (following a JCB for half of it) I think that is a reasonable test to repeat with the new thermostat.

I'm interested to see if it actually warms up quicker than currently or just takes longer (distance or time) to get hotter. I guess this will depend if my current and rather tired thermostat is actually open or is just opening too early. I suspect that it is basically 'open' now as on Wednesday night when driving around town with air temp of 3ºc it never went above 57ºc!.

Hence why I put it in quotes. There has got to be a fuel enrichment strategy for when it is cold.

Modern petrol cars still have an enrichment program, just becuase there's no physical level to pull on anymore, it doesn't mean it doesn't have one!!!

As a compression ignition I don't think you need a choke but some basic diesels have an 'advance and retard' system to alter the pump timing.

I suspect the common rail systems do something similar. But I doubt they need to change the air fuel ratio at all.

Any chance of some moderator getting hold of this "definite answer" and turning it into a really useful reference for Thermostats. :}

My Meziere thermostat housing is now fitted. Took @15 min from bonnet open to closed.

It really is easy - but here is quick 'how-to'.

First, remove engine cover. 3 x 8mm bolts

Then syphon OAT from header tank. I did it in situ first, then removed the 8mm bolt and lowered it and you can hear the coolant glug back into the tank, syphoned some more then I wiggled the tank about and got a bit more to drain into it to syphon out but that was all. (I guess I got a bit under litre out - the container in the picture is 3L)

http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/pictures/Meziere6.jpg

Then I chopped the hose using a cheap serrated carving knife I found in the back of the kitchen drawer (already washed and returned - she'll never know....:}). I took @40mm section of pipe out and there was no coolant dripping at all. The Meziere 1½-1¼" housing slips perfectly into the cut hose. I clamped it up with a pair jubilee clips (if you are sensible you'll find some that fit an 8mm socket and then you'll only need one tool to do the whole job!)

Refit the header tank and refill.

Refit engine cover

http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/pictures/Meziere7.jpg

Job jobbed.

I didn't take any pictures of the task (not that you really need any it's really simple) because, as you can see, it was raining quite hard!

One thought for those going for the Specialist Components housing - what is the diameter of the unit with its flange? There is not a great deal of clearance between the unit and whatever the metal do-dad next to the oil filter is (pictured). If they touch I'd expect the vibration to damage either (or both) components.

So what is it like in use? Massive improvement!

The car certainly warms up a bit quicker (although today was 5ºc colder than yesterday and raining) but I noticed it was at 45ºc where it was 40ºc, 55ºc where it was 50ºc and @65ºc after 4 miles. It kept rising. I guess it reached the mid 80ºc's in @8 miles.

Once up to temp it seems to settle @87ºc. Rising under load to 92ºc, when the stat opens and it drops pretty quickly to 84ºc from which it picks up (again quite quickly) to settle back to @87ºc. The gauge sits exactly in the middle. :}

But best of all I had decently warm feet for the first time since I bought the car last year! :D

Thanks again to wuzerk for finding this and doing the hard work. :bowdown:

Edit - I should add what it cost me. After shipping, tax and Parcel Farce's 'handling charge' the housing and thermostat ended up costing me @£85 and I have a spare thermostat for @£7. (For those reading this in the future, see what I wrote about the exchange rate earlier in the thread, it would probably cost me a tenner less if I ordered today....) I guess you might also have to add a couple of quid for the jubilee clips but I had them lying about. The cost of doing the job is trivial.

The 'genuine' thermostats currently cost @£40 but fitting them is certainly not trivial - so this looks to be a great solution for me.

Only question is now if the new stats don't have a bleed hole do we drill one?

The Meziere (195ºF) stats have a hole.

You can tell by...

• If you assemble the housing with the stat inside you can still blow through it.
• You can see it if you look closely at the edge of the stat!

:D

Vacuum refilling doesn't require a hole. Just a thought.

TC

So I have to drain all of the coolant first, then refill.

Still worried about airlock etc - do I just pour it back in or do I have to do something special?

Have just paid my £54.26 via PayPal. Can't wait! :D

Method
 

JAKG you do not seem to have read all the posts or studied the pictures enough. You do not have to drain the whole system, follow JULES suggestion and just undo the expansion tank and drain just over a litre out for reinsertion when you have finished. Good luck.

Further to this... I've been out to have a poke about (it stopped raining!) and in reality the metal do-dad is miles away and think that any clearance issue would be against the oil filter housing and the engine cover.

The Meziere housing is @65mm in diameter and there is just enough space to get my finger (@15mm) between the oil filter cap and the thermostat housing. There is a little more clearance (@20mm) between the top of the thermostat housing and the engine cover.

http://www.specialist-components.co....gLib-viewImage

If the flange of the Specialist Components housing is well under 80mm in diameter you will probably be okay although it might get in the way when you change the oil filter. If it is larger then you are likely to have to consider how it is mounted very carefully.

can you get me a full price inc postage plz while i have some spare cash in my paypal please because as its got colder the temp has got lower

Trawl back a page or two and you'll see a post from Thomas. It's 54.26 to the UK.

i did but it does not mention postage as far as i can see

£54.26 includes postage.

Stubs

Any news if production has started yet? Also, am I right that its the housing and stat - not just the housing?

Production has started and it is the housing and the stat

Top job, thanks thomas - heat is on its way!

I get +10% on trip comp compared with actual with synergy2 still can't hit a real 50 mpg!! :shrug:

good news i'm hoping for a few extra mpg on long runs heater is already toasty so can't improve that too much fingers crossed!!

Last time I did a long (350 miles) motorway run I got 50mpg. I've got to do one again on Tuesday and as I've done my Meziere thermostat it will be interesting to see if there is any change in consumption. Although I have not decided if air temperature plays much part in running temp and fuel consumption I suspect that it is the shorter distance where the motor never quite gets warm enough that will see greater improvement (if there is any).

The easy alternative
 

I took a second trip to Jules last week, first one a couple of months ago for new cooling fan, original fan completely u/s and this time for the thermostat. I knew of the problems when I bought the car earlier this year as it is my second R75 and in test mode only got only 68'C and engine not getting hot even without fan operation, I opted for the Kenlowe (remembered with affection from my boy racer days with Fords) and now with new OEM thermostat getting around 90'C, much quicker warm up and about 4mpg better. Plus it is a good day out, only about 45miles from me and excellent company (Jules) plus a learning curve if you ask and listen. I am an engineer more used to engines the size of houses and 30,000bhp on ships but Jules is a mine of information on these cars and always willing to help and explain. OK it cost more than the after market alternative but end result is good and I have no more worries plus a friend in Jules to call on when needed.
You pays your money and you takes your choice and I have enough problems with ships I don't need them on a car!

That said if this thermo fails I would consider the alternative in addition to the original as any engineer knows that a diesel needs heat and runs better hot than cold!

DennisA 2004 cdti Conn SE.

Mpg
 

MINTEE, I agree, so far I have seen no improvement in mpg with the in line stat in place on a long run but I hope to see an improvement in the
'never get up to temperature local trips' readings.

Right. 307 miles. 25.97 litres. That's.......

....53.73mpg! :eek:

Thing is the last long trip was pretty much motorway the whole way down and back. This was a mix of A-road, motorway and city where I'd expect to get less mpg normally than just rolling up and down a motorway. Since nothing else has changed I'd say that in my case the thermostat does have an effect on fuel consumption.

I'll keep an eye on the longer term average. Last winter was the low 40's.

Mpg
 

Well, that is a better improvement than I got Mintee, but, more importantly, is the fact that I am revelling in having warm feet and the fact that I am no longer dreading the cold snap which has been forecast.

Still not here...


When should I be expecting it to arrive?

I believe they said within 4 weeks so a bit longer yet.

Ordering thermostat?
 

Hi Without sounding thick, when ordering through paypal, do you send payment as 'Purchase (goods) or Personal (gift)' just checking as to paypal fees? Steve.

Wuzerk and Mintee went for the american option so don't know how long we will have to wait ? Should be worth it though last week i was driving home in -3 temp. and not exactly toastie.

Paypal
 

CARAVAN, re Paypal, if you send is as purchase then a fee will be charged to the supplier of the housings. If you send it as personal or a gift then you will be charged, not the recipient. If everybody sent it to him as a 'Purchase' he would lose a lot of money.
I have just ordered (for my son) and the cost to YOU to send it as a 'personal gift' is £2.04 on top.

That never crossed my mind - I just sent it as a 'purchase for goods'. If you send it as 'personal' or as a 'gift' though, wouldn't you then lose the paypal insurance if you were ever unlucky enough to not receive your goods, or had some other similar problem? Presumably the seller has also already factored any paypal fees into the cost, since he requested payment by paypal?

Paypal
 

I have no idea of any disadvantages of paying as a 'Gift'. I know that this problem arose with CROFTS when people were paying him for the door finishers. If sent as a 'purchase' he lost money. It would usually be down to the supplier to ask for the 'gift' method of payment so it is your choice.
Since it cost me almost double the price to pioneer this mod i am quite happy to pay the extra £2.04 for my sons present.

Ok then, as Samuelle says we need definitive answer:D as to insurance protection ect, as anybody received their thermostat yet through purchase paypal order? if so this would be the way to go 'cost to the supplier' and not us, that if the supplier as factored the fees into the total cost? Steve

Well a @6% improvement in fuel consumption is fine by me! I don't expect the same sort of benefit in just running about the place though. But I also have warm feet and the unusual experience of actually turning the heater down when I was getting too warm! :D

to be on the safe side I wouldn't send as a gift you have no protection

paying
 

I don't trust paypal, there are a lot of scams out there plus they make you wait for your money on sales, want a lot of personal information and make all sorts of charges.

Just ring up specialist components and use your debit card, like I did.

I suppose we will have to wait until around Dec 1st to receive our stats. Gosh it was cold the last two nights.

Hi Flyer good advice :bowdown:mate, did-not no you could do that, thanks Steve

So do we have a definitive "how to" for fitting this? I don't want to have the search through 30+ pages trying to find it... if there is one, it should be a separate thread.

How to
 

It is extremely simple and I consider that i have posted all the important
points over and over but, if you look at pages 31 and 32 MINTEEs description should give you enough info to make the job troublefree. Must admit the topic has grown somewhat! The problem is that I used the American 'stat housing with the Chevrolet 90.5C thermostat as did Mintee,whereas all those who are awaiting delivery will be using the different cheaper locally sourced housings so, really, it would be better if one of them posts a how to with the corresponding pictures when delivery starts.

Just a thought dont the 1.8T 75's have a top hose in line thermostat can these not be used ? if this has already been mentioned then ignore me :)

No, they have a PRT type stat located externally below the radiator. It wouldn't be suitable for this job as it has three pipe connections. It's also rated at 88C same as the standard diesel stat.

The PRT

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19..._18T_T-Cut.jpg

TC

IN LINE Housing UPDATE
 

My usual test run today and the MPG figure has improved by 2-3mpg (now 53.3) Useful, but it is the improved comfort which is the biggest bonus. Those of you with below par 'stats are in for a treat.

Paypal
 

Feel I need to correct this Fred. It was my fault as I had forgotten to factor in the Paypal fee and a couple of members kindly declared it as a gift. This reverses the fee to the buyer.
Neither with the door finishers or with private web purchases, I have not had one problem with Paypal. That's probably in excess of 300 transactions.
To give you an idea the fee on £47.70 is £1.86. You get an accurate log of payments and it is simple to transfer on line to ones bank a/c. Takes 3 days. There are absolutely no other charges.

See post 320 :smilie_re:
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...&postcount=320

Another two weeks ...
 

I emailed specialist components at the weekend and they replied this morning that they expect the batch to be ready in another two weeks.

viz

Hi Phil,

These aren't a stock item, we are designing and manufacturing them specifically for the Rover 75, club. At the moment we are expecting the first batch to be ready in around 2 weeks' time.

Regards
Simon

patience patience !!

Yes just wear thick woolly socks and a hat until they arrive:D

Paypal
 

CROFTS, I was alluding to the fact that, regarding the finishers, you did not ask for the paypal payments to be made as a gift which meant that you had to pay the fee. Since you had gone to all that trouble is wasn't fair that you should be out of pocket so somebody suggested that we paid as a 'gift'.

will these remain avalable for a while or will it be a one batch job ? Just waiting for my christmas bonus from work (3rd Dec) as ive got to spend a few quid on the wedding this week :eek:

You'll be able to order one from Meziere Enterprises. After all, at least wuzerk and I know those are both suitable and available....

Only trouble with a Gift payment I've found is there is no delivery address unless sender remembers to enter it in the message box..............
If they don't you have to spend time chasing delivery addresses !

from a buyers point of view no paypal protection as you have declared you sent a gift of cash to a friend not very safe

Woo hoo
 

Just sent payment:D,cant wait for some heat:(.

nearly there
 

I just called specialist components.

:smilie_re: They are hoping to ship them week beginning 6/12/10 ie next week.

Roll on I'm freezing here in the peak district!

What size of jubilee clips do we need for this? I have some 40mm ones but I'm not sure they will be big enough for the diameter of the inlet/outlet plus the thickness of the hose... because I don't know how thick the hose is! Just want to make sure I have the right size ready for when the new stat arrives :)

Jubilee clips
 

I am not a 100% sure but think that the ones I used,(stainless from Halfords), were marked 38-51mm. 38mm is certainly too small for the
1 1/2" end.

I have just read through this entire thread - need a shave now !

The benefits of fitting this in line stat so far seem to be warmer cabins and better mpg, but there is another reason for those of us with an FBH, my stat setles at 73-75 which is not quite warm enough to put the FBH into idle mode so my FBH is still on even after a long journey until i cut the ignition.

I will be ordering one later cant decide whether to go USA or UK, normally that woudnt be an issue UK every time, but not sure if i would be waiting for a second batch to be paid for or now that the initial order is in place will they just manufacture a few more ?

I have checked out the USA website and the housing part number WN0073 is not shown in the options although it doesnt mean that they dont do them of course

This seems a worthwhile mod for those with thermostat problems but has anyone thought of using a Renault in hose stat?.It seems to be a common mod on Vauxhalls to avoid removing the cam belt when the thermostat packs up.
My thermostat seems marginal at present as its running at 80 to 83c and if it gets worse im going to try an 88c Renault 5 thermostat in the top hose.
Paul

USA Housing
 

TREBOR. The USA stat is readily available with a 1 1/2" inlet and a 1 1/4" outlet but that was only after i asked the supplier if that was possible because I found that that was the size needed for our cars. He has given the part number but has not posted it on his web site yet. He might not bother since he wouldn't give a discount to Jules for a bulk order so has not sold half as many as he could have done.

Sounds worth a go if it is the right size for the Rover top hose. Stuff it in (the correct way round!) and see.

Cheap as chips on ebay but there are several versions - 83°C, 87°C and this one at 89°C. Someone ought to try that as £12 with a jubilee clip is peanuts and a quick fix if it works.
I don't think you are marginal - I'd have thought that is going to be about the best you'll get in this weather with a standard thermostat.

Not only available but to show that it existed I deliberately pictured the box with the part number on earlier in the thread.

Again.....

http://www.yamamura.unospace.net/pictures/Meziere1.jpg

decided to go with the UK specialist components, i e mailed them tonight to find out if i could be added to the first batch and they got back to me almost straight away and said yes and that they would be sending them out next Monday, so i will get it quicker

paulf, why don't you ask britishtrident which forum they think '...in particular has a lot of dubious information on it', eh?

Someone needs to do some measuring up.

The (pattern?) Renault 'stat listed here suggests it is 40mm in diameter. wuzerk has identified that the Rover top hose tapers from @1½" (38mm) internal diameter, and my Meziere housing was not hard to fit where I cut it, so the Renault 'stat might well be able to be persuaded to fit.

Doesn't look like the Renault stat would fit.
As usual French parts are awkwardly different:D

The USA stat housings do look prettier/smoother IMO than the British design

Spun aluminium I suspect, they really are beautifully machined items and they can supply a 90º 'stat. :D

Hmm

Well if the R5 stat does fit, then it appears to be the best solution. No need to cut your hose, minimal cost, plus I like its galic simplicity. Nous nous Français ne sont pas si bêtes.

Pity, I would have tried it but have paid my £50 for the specialist components solution.

See what you mean now Phil
Well shall I take a punt chaps and buy one?

Wonder if the 38mm is excluding the little ridge?
It looks like the ridge is holding the stat into the brass housing.
So grinding that off wouldn't be an option

I've submitted the question and await their reply.

This may be a stupid Question but is there any chance the hotter running american chevy stat. will fit into the british housing ? probably not but that would be an ideal solution for me as i think 88 degrees is still a bit cold and would rather have a higher temp. stat. if possible cheers Tam.

If I hadn't already chucked it I would have taken the section I cut out of my hose when I fitted the Meziere to the local motor factors and seen if one fitted!
I wondered which part they measured and that they may not have been accurate.
I think the ridge is there so that when you clamp it from the outside it stays where it is put!

There is a chance one will. What is the the internal diameter of the housing and/or the size of the 'stat they supply?

If my 90.5º stat is anyting to go by an 88º is going to run a bit cooler. Time will tell how much but on a run mine seems to settle @87º which will have an 88º just about opening. Mine gets to 92º on the dash OBD when it opens and it you can see it drops pretty quickly back to @84º when it (presumably) closes the 'stat and the temp rises again.

Chevrolet stat
 

The chevrolet thermostat is 54mm in diameter and 41mm overall length. it is,at 90.5C, the highest rated 'stat I have found so far.

Renault thermostat-- part one
 

I have recently picked up another 75 tourer diesel after using it the last few days it appears that the thermostat is stuck open IE the gauge only ever moves about 1/4 inch off the blue.So Thought it would be an ideal chance to try a renault thermostat as described in earlier posts while waiting for the specialist components one to arrive for my other 75

I purchased a renault 5 thermostat ( 89c) from a local carparts supplier at a cost of £7.26 inc vat.

I had previousley removed the top hose took off the metal clip that holds the plastic connection on,removed it and tried the new stat in the pipe,it went in upto the flange on the stat so I removed it and put the end of the top hose into a pan of boiling water for about 15 minutes on simmer,removed it,greased the inside of the pipe and with very little persausion the stat went in,using a flat blade screw driver I was able to push the stat in far enough to refit the plastic coupling.
Fitted new jubilee clips allround just waiting now to refit to the engine and try.

will let you know what happens :shrug:

Sounds good, lets hope you get a good result.

Can't wait to see the running temps you get with that. (I expect it'll be fine)

Sounds as if it should work ok , I would have tried it myself but think my thermostat is still ok as running at about 80c at the moment.My next mission looks as if it will be to find a cheap way of repairing or replacing the clutch master cylinder as I nearly got stuck today due to loosing nearly all the fluid, it seems to have leaked from the master cylinder rather than the slave luckily.
Paul
I purchased a renault 5 thermostat ( 89c) from a local carparts supplier at a cost of £7.26 inc vat.

I had previousley removed the top hose took off the metal clip that holds the plastic connection on,removed it and tried the new stat in the pipe,it went in upto the flange on the stat so I removed it and put the end of the top hose into a pan of boiling water for about 15 minutes on simmer,removed it,greased the inside of the pipe and with very little persausion the stat went in,using a flat blade screw driver I was able to push the stat in far enough to refit the plastic coupling.
Fitted new jubilee clips allround just waiting now to refit to the engine and try.

will let you know what happens :shrug:[/QUOTE]

Thermostat
 

That is interesting, this mod is getting cheaper by the week!

I think this would still help if you are only seeing 80c. I'm getting up to 83 or 84 on long runs but I'm still going to fit the renault stat that I have tomorrow. I wanna see high 80's!

Rich

Does anybody want to buy a specialist components in-line thermostat?

Have you got it at last?

Hi Mintee, not yet ...

But I am expecting it this week. They were supposed to being shipped today.

However it looks like the R5 thermostat is the solution to go for, together with a new top hose would have been much cheaper. No cutting involved, just replace and away you go.

It makes you wonder why manufactures bother with an engine block mounted thermostat when this idea is so simple?

Well, you are jumping to conclusions somewhat - it may yet have some fatal flaw.

(Although I rather doubt it....);)

Top Hose
 

A new top hose is £19 odd.

personally I have to say the metal cased in line stat seems a better engineering solution than pushing one inside the top hose even though that might work, maybe just me though

I have a Renault Stat which I'll try on a CDTi tomorrow.
Could be some in line housings obsolete overnight .....if I'm satisfied with sealing and securing issues :cool:

Jules I have put a hose clip around the body of the stat just to make sure that A it stays put and B to make sure there is a seal .Although when you come to fit the stat in the pipe you will see that it is quite a tight fit anyway
You may beat me to it in fitting it back on the car as it is B****Y freezing here and to cold to work out side.:}

I'd give the Renault 'stat some time before announcing that everything else is obsolete - it could be that they are less reliable than the OE Rover ones..... and Meziere can supply a 90.5°C stat which will open later than a Renault 89°C so will be 'better' for getting the motor to run that little bit hotter.

(But I still expect it will work fine....):D

Do you think 1.5 degrees will make that much difference knowing how inacurat stats are any way??
I dont know myself but it has got to improve things from what it was in my particular situatiion:shrug:

It will make a difference. I don't know if it will be that significant though ;) (and for the cost saving I probably wouldn't really care!)

The only thing that would concern me is reliability in use and without seeing one and fitting it I don't know if that is likely to be an issue. There do seem to be some comments on Astra forums about it though - but that could be ham-fisted yoof bodging them into place as much as anything else. I expect they worked fine in Renaults. But with my Meziere housing and Chevy 'stat I'm not going have to bother to find that out either.

:shrug:i know this might sound radical..... has anyone tried running there cars without the under engine tray??? this is designed not only to protect the engine but also to direct air around the engine bay to aid cooling, my bro-in-law was trained on rover/mg and told me the other day if you see a 75 without the tray it could easily over heat, he said he had worked on a number that had done this, i have no idea as a bit of a monkey when it comes to mechanics but he is real good, always fixes my cars (and he has had to that alot with the cars i have had lol), he only mentioned this as mine is held on by cable ties lol and he said to get it fixed properly as if it comes off it wont do it any favours, he also mentioned something about the egr bypass valve, if you do the bypass it can raise the temp?? again no idea, he may have been pulling my wotsits lol but who know, i just thought i would throw my two pence worth in.

Quick question on the top hose - I can see the spring clip on the radiator end of the hose, but can't work out what kind of clip holds the hose on at the engine end? Just looks like a steel band on mine, is that correct? If so, what's best way to remove?

Cheers,
Rich

May be an issue with other models, but I don't think the diesel will suffer those problems. I ran mine with the radiator completely blocked with a sheet of cardboard and barely managed to get it up to normal operating temp.

Rich

where abouts on the gauge should the needle be when up to temp? i have a cdt, mine sits dead middle

There is deadband built into the gauge. It will read normal anywhere from about low 70's through to low 100's (as a rough guess - I'm sure somewill will chirp in with the true values).

But you can go into diagnostic mode on your dash and get it to display the temperature instead of odometer to check the true temperature. There's a How-To on here that describes the procedure.

Cheers,
Rich

If you look carefully you will see a metal spring that is located in the plastic housing just behind the metal band you need to pull this out to the stop(ther is a small section that you can put a small bladed screw driver into) and then the plastic part should pull out! I say should because although I have released the spring the B*****d thing still wont come apart :mad:

It's fine.

So the plastic housing comes off with the top hose? Do you then separate the hose from the housing, or did you insert the Renualt thermostat into the radiator end of the hose?

Cheers,
Rich

Yes the top hose does come off withe plastic housing,I then got a Dremmel Tool and cut the metal band off.Pulled off the hose,it is then a simple matter of heating the rubber hose in boiling water to soften up and use use washing up liquid to help insertion.
Push it in far enough so you can get the plastic housing back in, hold the stat in place with a suitable hose clip around the main body of the stat and use a hose clip to hold the hose onto the plastic body and refit to car.
You will not get the stat into the rad end of the hose as it is smaller dia at that end

Last year i blocked off both grills as my thermostat was shot and still is to be honest despite having a new freelander one in a box!. This produced pretty good results and got the heater nice and toasty and running temp. up to the mid eighties, haven't blocked them off this year yet as waiting on the in-line stat to be delivered and even when it hopefully is working fine i will probably blank off the lower grill in the worst of the winter to try and increase running temp. a bit as even high eighties temp. running is to low for my liking! . Last night on my run to work -15 degrees after 15 miles the OBD siad the temp. was 68 degrees which with the grills blanked last year the same run and same temp. -15 the temp. was 88 degrees so up to the individual but my experiance of blocking grills off is quite good and worthwhile only downside was the dashboard (not OBD) temp. was totally useless as no fresh air was getting to sensor. Once my in-line stat. arrives i'm hopeful that at some time i will be able to find a stat. that opens around the 92 degree mark and will fit the housing which will be an advantage of the in-line option over the renault option but due to me being a mechanical numpty probably will remain on wish list for a while.:D

Originally Posted by paicey
where abouts on the gauge should the needle be when up to temp? i have a cdt, mine sits dead middle
It's fine.Well dead middle only means it's reached min of 72 deg or less than 118 C !

Which sensor did you mean Tammy?
And what sort of readings were you getting?

Renault stat
 

Well I have fitted the renault stat this afternoon fairly simple to do.

Any way initial signs look good,started up the engine and left it to run,within a very short time, much shorter than normal the temp gauge started to rise and went much higher than before.I have not yet took it out on a run as I have left it to cool down so I can recheck the water levels which I will do tommorrow.
Then it will be a road test with the OBD to see what the temps are:shrug:

As I said in the first post the temp needle only moved about 1/4 from the blue mark,so any improvement will be for the good

Did you drill a 1 mm hole in it John.
Without a hole on the stat there is a danger the system won't bleed air properly.
Also warm water flow may not get to the wax bulb before it boils.
Well done so far but watch temp like a hawk !

Which sensor did you mean Tammy?
And what sort of readings were you getting?
__________________

Hi Jules , sorry tend to ramble a bit when writing things down but i only meant that when the grills are blocked off or specifically the lower grill the outside air can't get to sensor so when outside temp is say - 10 the dash read out tells you its its - 5 due to the warmer conditions inside the engine bay. Just a small downside to blocking of grills but nothing to do with water running temp and the on board diagnostics cheers Tam.

Jules I don't understand, where should the needle be then? Am I not running right? The heater warms up ok

Most, if not all manufacturers make the gauge to read normal in a wide range of temperatures. They think that if the driver saw the needle moving up and down as the temperature fluctuates due to load, thermostat opening and closing, etc., then they will panic and think something is wrong.

Your needle in the middle only means the temp is getting over 72 as Jules says. You need to run the dashboard diagnostic to display the actual running temp.

Cheers,
Rich

Yes I did drill a hole but it got to dark for me do do much more today other than refill it and run it for a bit will give it a go tommorow

cheers
John
:}

This thread discusses temperature gauges and how the one in these cars is designed to work. It will become apparent that the OEM gauge has more to do with marketing than engineering.

Click: http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...2asymptotic%22

TC

Worth doing the dash OBD test if the readings are that wild.

With the inline 'stat I've been watching my temp gauge pretty closely recently and at @75°C it's between the first and middle mark and it doesn't get to the middle until it is above @80°C. (But it doesn't obviously move between my new 'stat opening at 92°C and it closing again 84°C. either!)

That's quite unusual and outside the design range (see graph in link above). Most reported figures show the gauge hitting 'normal' at 75C. Anyway, it's academic since the gauge is of little practical use.

TC

I knew when my needle would not move 'just off blue' all was not good! :D

mine is just below middle at 80 to 83 which is the highest I've seen on it but in this weather it struggles to get above about 78 and that's probably only because I have a FBH

Sounds like it reads rather like mine.
With my FBH 'jumped' off pin 3 (as the sensor doesn't seem to be working and I'm not crawling around on the drive in this weather to try to get it out and test/change it!) I've seen mine hit 92°C and see the tem drop as the 'stat opens when it was -4 outside. But that was when I was loading the engine climbing Haldon Hill on A38 out of Exeter the other day. :D

I have been monitoring my temperature over the last few days, I have remote starting of the engine on my car and with 10 minutes running before I leave home with the FBH running. within 1.8 miles I reach 80o and when within 4 miles I have reached 84-86o, so I can not complain about the heat from the heater matrix :}

received this e mail from specialist components this morning:

Morning - we'll be despatching tomorrow - by Royal Mail - I'd expect them anytime from Sat morning onwards

Regards

John

Yes just called them myself and can confirm

Renault 5 stat maybe good just for winter !!
 

Well Chaps I installed a Renault 5 stat 88 deg C in a ZT CDTi here today and subjected it to some extensive varied driving conditions!
Pics to follow.

30 mins fitting time.
Lower the header tank and syphon off 2 litres of the OAT coolant.
No need to remove the top hose Rad end.
The spring clip hose union at the cylinder head proved to be well and truly stuck on (prob static friction of the O ring) so decided to leave alone
Just cut through the stainless hose clamp with Dremel tool.
Slide the Stat into the hose (plus 10mm further in)

Refit hose using a 21mm- 44mm stainless jubilee clip.
Refill coolant (only lost an egg cup full during hose removal)


While the results are encouraging some of the temp readings are a tad unusual!

Results: (FBH disabled)

Outside temp = 0 deg C
Level ground
2 miles of town driving achieved OBD temp = 52 deg
Then 1.5 miles at 50 MPH on A55 (speed limit at this junction) .......OBD temp up to 72.

2 more miles at 2000 RPM 5th reached 83 deg
Full throttle short burst in 4 th gear to 3000 RPM .....90 deg

Full throttle short burst in 5th gear to 4000 RPM...... 99 deg!
Slowed to 50 MPH on over run temp very quickly dropped to 88C

Onto a B road now with some very steep inclines.
2nd gear 3000 RPM 87 C - 89 C coping well.

Steep down hill on the overrun for 1 mile..... dropped to 82 C (understandable)

Back onto level open road in 5th gear at various speeds 86-91 C


More test driving still to be done but so far the temps are not as stable as the OEM Stat would be.
I suspect the Renault Stat opening port is just slightly on the small side with heavy engine load.
May have to wait and see next year for HOT ambient conditions under heavy engine loads.

Of course if Temp rises above 100 C when in top gear, the cooling fan is going to be active (wasteful so not ideal)

Could be a good Winter Stat for careful drivers !
Of course this mod is totally reversible as no cutting of hoses required, so we can always find a different Stat, but doubtful if we'll find one physically big enough with enough flow to fit within the 38mm internal hose diam

Need some more data when the Inline housings arrive please chaps.

TTFN
Jules

Very interesting stuff.

My Meziere with 195°F Chevy 'stat seems more stable than that running once hot @87°C - maxing at 92°C, dropping to 84°C but stabling back at 87°C pretty quickly.

Warming up in 7.5 miles? I think that is about the same, I don't have a convenient 'open road' quite that close though so tend to trawl along at 30-40 for 6 or so miles before I can do that so don't see 87 before @8 miles.. The engine does not get as hot at low speeds without the FBH.

Blimey I hope that was on an autobahn???

The fact that your high reading occured
in 5th but at 4000 revs does suggest that the pump cannot shift the coolant quickly enough through the 'stat as the revs rise of course.

I think there could be a problem with what we are doing in that we have now blocked off access to the expansion tank bleed hose. I.e where does the 'excess coolant created by heat expansion' go? Someone please tell me why this is not an issue as I hoping to receive my in line stat any day now. Maybe we need to see what the temp of the coolant is before it starts to bleed back into the expansion tank?

Shouldn't be a problem Tim with a 1mm or 2mm bleed hole drilled in the stat body.

A ball valve which most stats have would be even better.
I've just been looking through a trade book of about 200 stats !!
The mind boggles
Tests continuing...........................

Thanks Jules, am I right in thinking some stats operate on both pressure and temperature?

Hi Jules
just checked the drill I used to drill the stat it was in fact a 2mm,Its all back together now and initially it definatly warms up a lot quicker even with the fbh going cant give it a proper road test untill monday as it is not street legal yet,but your figures are interesting and will do a comparason asap

PS I had the same problem as you trying to seperate the plastic joint ,ended up useing a Dremmel as well!!

I have never heard of one that opens on pressure,only on temperature,But then what do I know:shrug:

You're thinking of the PRT (Pressure Relief Thermostat) which is fitted to the 1.8Turbo and later 1.8NA engines. This has both a temperature moderated valve and flow pressure control. The pressure system operates at nominal engine speeds of 2000rpm and above, when the water pump is delivering sufficient hydraulic pressure to open the spring contolled part of the valve mechanism. It was introduced to provide a more balanced cooling regime to the 1.8, which tended to suffer from thermal shock effects inherent with the normal stat. So with the PRT, you can see (via OBD) the stat controlling on both temperature and coolant pressure (rpm). It's quite interesting to watch (if you like that sort of thing).

TC

Thanks T-CUT I knew I had seen this somewhere.

Mine arrived today... now to try to find time to fit / find these jubilee clips!

Funny thing that "Jiggle pin " found in some stats. It seems that air trapped behind the valve escapes more easily with the pin even though it partially blocks the tiny hole. :shrug::shrug::shrug:
:confused::confused::confused:

;) Got mine too, will be fitting it in the morning:D. Just to double check it goes inline in top hose between rad and engine ? just so cut hose in right place as different id of hose, so stat will be as close to the plastic coupling on engine?.

In line
 

Yes, fit the 1 1/2" end as close to the engine as possible, with the thermostat cylinder end facing the engine, then cut as short a piece as possible in order to fit the other end.

Just to recap...

What size jubilee's do I need?

And a really stupid question...

What end is the thermostat end?

(i've never worked on the cooling system before...)

In line
 

The wax cylinder end is the end where the spring is so the spring should be at the engine end. If i remember correctly the Jubilee clips I used were marked 38-51mm. You should err on the larger size because you can just keep screwing them tighter until they do the job.

mine not arrived yet but obviously on the way so good news, please report findings if any fitted and tested tomorrow

Brilliant.. bought some clips, now to wait for them to arrive / some time off...

You've bought jubliee clips on the internet? :confused:

Any decent hardware shop/garage would have them hanging up in sizes for you to pick.

http://www.jubileehoseclips.com/reso...LESS+STEEL.jpg