Front lower wishbones issue - poor fitting/parts?
 

Hi all.

Would appreciate some opinions here. Had a pair of lower wishbones bushes fitted quite recently, at the beginning of August, as they were mot advisories.

We now seem to have a little bit of a knock from driver's side - not sure if immediately after the above work, we're not driving much at the moment. It happens at slow speeds, sometimes turning and sometimes on rough ground (not speed bumps). It isn't that much of a knock.

First suspect for me was the drop link, but I can't detect any movement. So I raised that side onto stands and tried levering the wheel about a bit..... Couldn't find the knock, but noticed the wishbone bush on that side looks odd..... Picture attached.

Poor quality part separating and working rearwards? Is that a plastic inner? Or just poorly fitted?

It's clear where the bush was (or the original one was).

I'll upload pictures of the other side on the first reply, that looks ok to me and the inner appears metallic .... So 2 different parts it would appear.

(As a footnote I had asked them to fit the dgmrs ones, but they won't do customer supplied parts. )

Interested in your thoughts/comments.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d83a54a039.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...615c1815db.jpg

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Pictures of other side, which looks ok to mehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b6d16ce032.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...af3a361716.jpg

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Both are wrong, the OS one has separated and needs replacing, the NS one has not been fitted correctly.

Hi Phil. Thanks for the reply.... But what's wrong with the fitting of the NS one please?

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The only thing you should be seeing at the rear of the bush is approx 1/4 inch of the arm poking out, not the bush material!

Agree with Phil, that's not right, either cheap and nasty parts or fitted by a ham-fisted oaf.............. or both! :duh:

The problem.
 

It's been fitted correctly, the bolts will put the line up in the perfect position, but the bonding of the bush in the carrier and the tightness of the fit are non existent. The bush centre is slowly working backwards every time it moves, it's not flexing in the carrier, it's just rotating until it falls out. This is a poor item and you need to get your money back.

What make are the arms please?

To me it looks like either the arms are a bit too big or the bushes a bit too small, so the arms haven't gone as far into the bushes as they should have.
Whoever fitted them should have dressed the hexagonal flats of the arms with a file to ensure a good snug but not too tight a fit - easily and quickly done as they are aluminium.

No idea I'm afraid, never changed in my ownership. Bushes were garage supply and fit, again don't know the brand(s)

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Surely as long as all parts are clean and a thin coating of anti seize grease applied there should be no need to remove metal to make them fit correctly.

Just done mine.---:D---Reputable make.

Your pics show the rubber bushes coming out of the steel housing.
Badly made and need immediate replacement.

You'd like to think so but pattern parts can be a bit hit and miss. Could be a combination of the arms being just that bit over the tolerance and the bushes just that bit under.

Either way I wouldn't use the garage that fitted them again as they should have spotted the problem and corrected it either with a file or different parts, not just kept going until the bushes were pushed out of their housings. :getmecoat:

I had the same problem when fitting Powerflex bushes. Had to take a fair bit off the pattern arms to make them fit correctly.

I'd hazard a guess that the garage itself caused the problems by trying to fit poorly made parts to try and keep the costs down.---:shrug:

( Or the fitter had a really big lump hammer.---:D:D:D--)

Either way Jon, looking at the photos, that is a really shoddy job. :getmecoat:

I would say they haven't been fitted correctly, and potentially the parts are sub-standard, though it's difficult to blame the part manufacturer after they've been fitted incorrectly.

The rubber inner should be a tight fit as it moves into the correct location on the lower arm which from memory has a taper. If the fitter has fitted it on the lower arm by pressing the outer housing it will just damage the inner.

I would take those pictures to the garage that fitted these and see what their response is.

Thanks all for the comments. I'll be visiting the garage tomorrow so will report back the outcome!

Does anybody have any thoughts about the fact the o/s bush seems to have a plastic outer, whereas the n/s is metal? Every picture I can see online has a metal outer.

It seems we have concluded that the o/s bush is well out of position, either by being badly fitted (likely by hammering the outer onto the arm) or it has detached after correct fitting and worked it's way back along the arm.... Whichever case it needs replacing, and the n/s appears to be going the same way.

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I had a pair of arms a while ago.

Only fitted one so far.

But the hexagon ends were 2 sizes one was 27mm. AF. Which is correct.and the other was 29mm AF ..way oversize.

So a very poor "pair". :duh::D

Looking closely at your pics they do both look like metal. A quick rub with a file will soon tell.

I think a plastic item in that place would be dangerous.---:eek:

I disagree, they have both been forced on due to too great an interference fit between the shaft and bush - fitted correctly they don't move but naturally stay put as there no forces on them. The difference between the two is that one has separated the inner bush from the housing and the other hasn't.

I would tend to agree with Mike here, on both of the replacement arms I fitted to my car there was quite a lot of rough casting flash to be filed off, and carefully reshaped in order that the bush could be fitted.


The arms were Starline (Eurocarparts rubbish) and the bushes Firstline (good quality)


These parts were all I could get at short notice , and I wasn't particularly impressed by the amount of work to get them "right" and I doubt the garage would have bothered............I suspect they fitted the bushes to the subframe, then forced, or attempted to force the arm into the bush with the inner part unsupported.

Well, whatever the truth of it the garage were fine when I visited them this morning, and are replacing the o/s bush under warranty on Wednesday. No dispute from them that it had failed.

actually sold as a pair , but 2 different makers ? and both Chinese !


But if I say the seller, all the Fanboys will throw their toys out :D:D

C

Most of the lower wishbone bushes out there are Chinese and are rubbish, even the so called MG Rover RBX101772 are made in Taiwan.
https://i.imgur.com/OuEooO9l.jpg1

But they seem to have the right amount of rubber in the inserts.
https://i.imgur.com/zl63DRLl.jpg2

Which the original bushes had.
https://i.imgur.com/sXcfxsDl.jpg3

Look at this other make from Taiwan note the amount of rubber in the insert, these were advertised with a photo of the amount of rubber in photo 2 but these turned up, full refund was given and told to keep the bushes, :shrug: what does that say, if you sell enough you can afford to lose some along the way.
https://i.imgur.com/SniXkH6l.jpg4

Unipart are great if you can find them now, myself and Marina Brian purchased a few sets of these a few years back ;)
https://i.imgur.com/lEyHC8sl.jpg5

https://i.imgur.com/VprZOoFl.jpg6

The bushes in your last pic really look good Steve.---:bowdown:
https://i.imgur.com/VprZOoFl.jpg

H Chris.
You don't have to be Sherlock Homes to work it out :shrug: good extended warranty though, but what use is it if you have to pay for the job to be undertaken twice or even three times.

Both bushes are scrap the offside bush metalestac insert has failed compleetly. the NHearside bush has been forced on forcing out the bush materal from the metal carrier.

I note from your post that the garage refuse to fit customer supplied parts. in this case it is a good thing. the garage have supplied you with parts which they have damaged whilst fitting them to your car. Trading standards will happly take this one on as your photographs show that either the parts they supplied were not fit for purpose, or they "the Garage" damaged the parts during fitting, leaving the car in a condition that could lead to an accadent due to the failed bushes being fitted.


Usualy I am fighting these people to fit my parts, over the years I have had many a CEO appologising for a branch refusing to fit a customer supplied part.



In your case. the garage need to replace the defective/dammaged parts urgently as a mater of safety. currently the car would fail a vehicle inspection on damaged front wishbone rear mounting bushes depending on the tester it may even get a unsafe to leave premises until repaired.



I do hope this is a local garage and not a National Chain. the garage should be giving you a car to use while their poor workmanship on your car is repaired and the dammaged parts are replaced with NEW Correct parts. I would also be asking to see the currently fitted parts after they have replaced them. I would photograph these parts and request to know the supplier was.

without seeing the car up close it is hard to say if it has been a defective part fitted badly or just a part fitted badly causing dammage to the new part.



I am asuming it is a small local garage that have no quality contorl as the repair as photographed should never have left the work shop.
happy motoring
Alan

no matter where you get these parts from ? unless you get a mileage related warranty, its worthless ..should be a minimum of 50k

even my last QH arm didn't quite manage 50k :duh:

A 2 years or even 3 yrs warranty is a waste of time ..


My Original NS arm is just going outside its 17 year 160k warranty . :D:D
and this OS arm is Number 4 :eek:




C

I would be asking the garage to replace both, as one has failed totaly and the other is fitted incorrectly. You have to asume that as the garage supplied both bushes at the same time, the bushes are of the same make and batch.
I would also ask the garage to replace the defective bushes with a set from a different supplyer and a different make.
alan

:wot: 100% they need to change both no questions asked with some good ones with the right amount of rubber in the inserts.

These would be good if the seller can 100% guarantee that you would get the ones in the photo with the right amount of rubber in the inserts.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-ROVER...oAAOSwrfRcNH04



PS these look to be good as well but the questions above must be asked about the amount of rubber? before purchase.
https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/metzger-1817617.html

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/metzger-1817618.html

Meyle also sold on the above site.

Might gamble on them meyle ones in the top link need to do my rear bushes on my mg6, used to buy the unipart ones but now they have stopped selling parts so unsure on what to buy :duh:

Having replaced the "Longslot" type rear bush with a Short Slot, as it came with the new arm ,


I Can definitely say its has made the comfort feeling slightly worse as I can now feel more road and engine vibration through the floor on the rougher ( i.e most :D roads).

But the car seems a bit tighter to drive with these.

So you takes your choice , softer ride or hopefully Longer lasting ?? :duh:

But hopefully this may improve. and we will seen if they last longer than the replaced long slots. which are actually still ok after a fair few miles ( need to look in the history ;) )

Chris

Rubbish bush's
 

Wow those are some shocking images of new garage supplied and fitted bushes, im no expert but have now done both front arms and bushes myself on the ZTT as a newbie "3 star diy'er", didnt even manage to mess it up like that lol. :shrug:



Last week got myself into a pickle replacing the drivers side lower arm and bush, made mistake of buying an arm and bush together on ebay in what was claimed to be "Ebays largest and best automotive parts store" lol.
Long story short the bush arrived already pressed onto the arm which concerned me immediately as was clearly pressed on to far beyond the marks on the arm and with no way to adjust it it was on tight and never coming off in one piece. The cheap bush looked pretty poor quality anyway, both rubber bush material and steel housing where shoddy looking but that didnt stop me ignoring my inner voice and attempting to fit it! After all it took 3 days to get the old one off with that central ball joint playing hard to get so how hard could it be? and the weight of the car will cause it the arm to self adjust in the bush lol (my erroneous rational at the time confirmed by this thread!!) :D.

The result of going into combat with a wrongly fitted bush on the arm was being unable to get the second bolt in properly and so damaging the top few threads in one of the the sub frame holes out of frustration trying to fit the arm with that cheap and wrongly pressed bush on it! Defeated I took a couple of days off for my arms to heal, complained at the seller to help my spirit a bit (partial refund obtained :}), then bought a Moog bush from that eurocar parts place delivered in 24 hours no messing and so cut the wrongly pressed bush off, which im keeping as a reminder for the future lol. Also had to buy a M14 x 2mm thread pitch tap to repair the sub frame threads I mauled and of course new high tensile M14 x 40 bolts (ebay supplied hard to find elsewhere presently). After retapping the bush hole and getting the new arm and moog bush on in an hour or so was properly gutted to find there was still play in the drivers side front wheel but slight unlike before with that well worn arm, i think it was original and car is at 162K now. Not sure how long this cheap ebay arm will last but car is much better with a tight arm on and rattles less on the superbly neglected A roads......


So now contemplating replacing the entire hub for a second hand one if can find something decent unless can find somebody local to press in new bearings as i dont have the kit to do that sadly but thats a different thread for another day.



Can I just say and at risk of speaking the obvious but its very important to get the best bush you can afford, i learned that last week and everywhere i look especially like this thread its an excellent example why.



What do folks think of the moog parts as generally curious, the Moog bush looks a lot better bush than the cheapo ebay one. I have images of it all but cant post them as of yet, image below of the moog and bits used to fix my ZTT.



https://www.mg-rover.org/attachments...ed-jpg.135640/

Hi John.
main reason not to purchase an arm with the bush already fitted is as above you never know how far its been pressed on, bit of rubber grease help the bush push on nicely, also make sure the arm is dressed so no sharp edges to snag on, with the moog bush it would be good if you could post a photo of the rubber insert to give us an idea of which type it is.

Had advisories on my front bushes and rear arms, so I've ordered a pair of the Meyle bushes you linked to Steve, and I've got an early pair of rear arms, all to fit next year sometime.:cool:

Hi Arctic, thanks for your comments i actually had to file a snaggy bit down on the arm, not much just to smoothen it up a bit for a nice freshly shaved fit as was slightly snaggy. When the arm arrived and opened it to find bush pressed on already i was a bit concerned tbh and immediately noted the bush looked to far on about 2mm beyond the line, not massive but enough to cause mis alignment on the sub frame it would seem. When did other side last year bought new arm and bush in same way but both came separate in the box so pressed bush on upto the line comparing it with old arm next to it and fitted no probs with the old bolts to, that was a weekend job for me... Certainly will not be making that mistake again! :cool:


Have some images to post no probs, just need to subscribe to do it by looks of it...


Edit


I have to jack that drivers side wheel up again nxt few days to see if the bearing sounds rough and when i do i shall take a picture of the arm with moog bush as put a black line on the arm where the fitted cheapo bush was fitted to on the arm and at last look there is a good 5mm between that line and the edge of moog bush so yeah the cheapo bush was pressed on well to far. images to follow...

Hi John.
I re-visited the lower wish bone bushes i purchased in the past, which should have had the larger amount of rubber in them due to the photos on the sellers listings, twice i got caught out before i managed to get hold of two sets of Unipart ones.

Here are the photos i took today of the lower wish bone bushed left to right they are Febi, Chinese, Unipart.

As you can see all are different either in the castings, rubber and most certainly how the insert is situated with regards to fitting onto the arm.

https://i.imgur.com/1MiyTscl.jpg1

Febi & Chinese
https://i.imgur.com/j6ToRDgl.jpg2

All there together Unipart on the right.
https://i.imgur.com/fTElHnBl.jpg3

Seeing that the inserts are all at a differing angle i wonder if this is why we have trouble getting them to line up with the bolts holes in the subframe.
https://i.imgur.com/uB4Yxbtl.jpg4

These are poly bush ones we fitted back in 2014 that's another story.
https://i.imgur.com/gX6sNe4l.jpg5

https://i.imgur.com/MYWBKCxl.jpg6

https://i.imgur.com/fjFn3Qtl.jpg7

Would think the angular position of the rubber heaxagon in relation to the mounting face is extremely important.otherwise depending on the position, the rubber would be under constant stress even in the neutral / static/ parked state.

When I fitted my arm I kept the arm jacked up to just take the cars weight and the bush was spot on with the subframe surface. :bowdown: :D..

I have a pair of the MEYLE in the garage to be fitted.


Looking at the last pic in Steve's post (the yellow/red bushes). The hex appears to be almost inline horizontally. This appears to show the Unipart bushes as being correctly assembled. (judging by the photos only).


I'm just going to check what my pair look like.


SteveN

They are different types of bush Steve - the originals are set in the housings so that the rubber isn't under tension with the weight of the vehicle on the wheels, and the Powerflex inner bush is free to swivel in the outer.

O/s bush replaced under warranty, looks to be fitted ok. I will keep an eye on this to see if it shifts at all, as I will to see if the n/s gets worse.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0775da15d9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c09c2de685.jpg

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Yes the nearside will likely fail early so keep an eye on it. They were both fitted incorrectly, so either the garage that fitted them haven't understood what they have done, or they do understand and don't give a monkey's. :getmecoat:

Looking at the photo it is plain to see that the rubber is distorted due to the hexagonal shaft of the arm not going far enough into the bush:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...af3a361716.jpg




The offside bush now sits where it should - you can see where they dressed the hexagonal part of the arm allowing it to slide further in than their first attempt:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0775da15d9.jpg

There is an element that I can't be bothered to debate the n/s with them. I have used the garage for approaching 20 years but in recent times the guy that ran it has been very ill, he is now shielding and it has gone downhill.

I've found a more local garage and they have had my last couple of jobs (2 Mots this month, some servicing and repairs on my TF and wife's Getz). They only charged 2 hours labour to replace a pair of front lower arms on the TF which I understand to be very fair, I dropped the car off at 8.30 and it was ready by 12.30 including Mot and oil and filter change , can't fault that!

The lower arms have transformed the TFs drive, but that's another story.....

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Hi Mike

I appreciate the difference in the Powerflex bushes, it is their difference that I was relying on.
I assume Steve's' photos were with the car on the ground and the arm sitting in the 'relaxed state' hence using their position as an alignment guide.


SteveN

The meyle bushes arrived that Artic linked to and they seem the real deal with the right ammount of rubber

https://i.ibb.co/mzjFMRt/IMG-20200921-131004.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/XZMzJYY/IMG-20200921-131032.jpg

Snap:D:D
https://i.imgur.com/NUC7N2wl.jpg

Mmm i had those poly bushes in Arctics photos didn't last long inner pulled out the the outer and failed the MOT 😐

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Good choice by the looks of it guys, i have purchased from the seller before and been happy with the products he sends out, happy fitting when you come to do them :D

And the bushes are on all well and good with them, has made the mg6 much smoother, in agony now though from laying under the car and straining my kneck for a few hours, always have difficulty lining the bolt holes back up :mad:

https://i.ibb.co/WygMdJC/IMG-20200922-183210.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/1r8ktpv/IMG-20200922-183157.jpg

Hi Eddy.
They both look good and i can not see any strain in the rubber so, they must have line up ok on the arm, i am sure the neck ache will subside, and you will now enjoy a smoother ride. ;)

Had a similar problem with the black competition ones when I complained they sent me a set of stainless steel 316 grade inserts, the car that I fitted them to is still running about 7 years and 140k later. Don’t fully understand why polybush don’t supply the S/S as standard.
Alan


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Does anyone have any experience of FAI bushes? They look to have a decent amount of rubber in them in the pictures.

I have generally found FAI to be decent quality components, though I don't specifically have experience with their front control arm bushes.

Meyle bushes listed on ebay
 

Hi, i am bit late replying to this thread i bought a set of meyle bushes from this ebay seller in march they came in a meyle box and looked fine i aslo bought a pair of QH Control arms from the motor-world ebay store for £38.49 each in march you have type the part numbers QSA1892S and QSA1891S to find them they are still listed on ebay ,up to know they are holding up fine :icon_lol: