South of France
Hi
I am asking on behalf of my dad, now 84, who is the proud and sentimental owner of a 2001 Rover 75 2.5 V6 auto RHD. It is in good condition, 40K on the clock BUT it has been very rarely used and now has some overheating/water leak issues. Dad is in the Cannes area in the south of France (I am in the UK) and is moving back to the UK in the next few months. He took it to a local garage but they don't seem to have fixed the issue. Is there anyone in the south of France who can advise on a reputable place that he can take it? Prior to joining the group, one helpful person has already pointed out how to know where the leak is coming from. But Dad is a bit forgetful and needs some help to figure it out and know where to take it. We were so looking forward to our road trip back to the UK together and now it looks more likely the car will return on the back of a truck! Therefore any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. |
What exactly did the garage do or not to the car re the water leak? It could be the thermostat which is in the space between the two banks of cylinders on the passenger side. Take the cover off the top of the engine(two small screws), and shine a light down into the middle of the engine on the nearside where the thermostat is. If there is any coolant in the bottom under the thermostat, then it is likely that the thermostat is leaking, probably from the plastic pipes where the clips are fitted to the pipes. These are plastic clips not the type used on rubber pipes. Get him to have a look and come back to the forum for more ideas.
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Hello Fiona,
If your Dad's Rover V6 is taken to a garage there's a real risk that they will use the dreaded K-Seal (or equivalent) in the cooling system and that will be the end of his pride and joy so please don't do that. I can offer you some suggestions which may enable you to enjoy your road trip home together after all. I have owned a V6 for 17 years, I do all my own repairs and I have solved the problems your Dad's car has. 1. Overheating The most common cause of this is trouble with the radiator's electric cooling fan. To find out, start the engine from cold then press the 'windscreen demist' button on the air con./heater control panel. Now walk to the front of the car and you should hear the radiator fan running continuously. If you don't, please report back for further advice. 2. Coolant leak As b152krz has said, if you have access to a small socket set remove the two 8mm screws holding the cover on the top of the engine (it's the moulding surrounding the oil filler cap). Shine a torch through the "bunch of bananas" aluminium pipes and if the light reflects back to you from red/pink liquid then you've found the leak. If it's not serious you can make the journey back to the UK equipped with plenty of coolant to replace the loss. To check, look into the expansion tank and if you can see a tab marked 'MAX' almost at the base, top-up the coolant to meet that mark. Then drive the car around locally and re-check the level the next morning when the engine is absolutely cold. Let us know the result please Fiona. Simon Oh, I almost forgot, :welcome: to the club! |
Thank you both bl52krz and SD1too.
This is the email from the garage: The Problem with the car is the Water Tank is leaking water,, So we changed the Expansion Tank and Cap and now the car is running ok But the Tank is now will leaking water but only a small amount before it was poring water out when running This is because the car is Pressurizing THE WATER system maybe Head Gasket to change or May need another Engine The other Problem is Timing Belt and Water pump and Belts needs also to be changed which also is a big job and expensive I will pass your information on to dad. I am going back to France on Thursday and will revert back thereafter if not before. Thank you again. |
To Simon.-----Could it be the thermostat failed shut ??-----:shrug:
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Any garage/workshop worthy of the name should be able to carry out a block test - the drive belts are another issue.
Clearly they are heavily suggesting it's all just not worth it, can't be bothered. Hope you find a professional repairer who will look at the vehicle and take the time to properly diagnose any faults present. |
Thank you Costa Fortuna.
That is what my dad thought too so the plan at the moment is to have it towed to another garage which has been recommended by a friend. But in the meantime, we will look into the previous suggestions and try to get to the bottom of the issue ourselves. |
If it's pressurising the coolant it might well be an airlock. I would suggest bleeding the system.
Sent from my SM-A326B using Tapatalk |
now it looks more likely the car will return on the back of a truck!
If it is covered by a breakdown service and would be at no cost to yourself that's the way I would go. It's all well and good a garage without sufficient knowledge of the intrinsics of your dads car hopefully fixing it for a long South of France to the UK journey. They can be fickle beasts in other than a knowledgeable persons hands. What has been described by the garage could be simply that it needs bleeding, the correct way in the correct sequence, there are other ' simple ' causes of the problem, but is it worth the chance of them ' fiddling at the corners,' only to break down halfway home. There have been quite a few members who have has similar pressurising problems that their garage, or garages couldn't fix, yet after being talked / walked through the correct process there problem has been solved. Good luck. |
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The garage seems to be saying that the coolant is being ejected through the expansion tank cap, there being no mention of a leak in the 'V'. This could simply be the result of a faulty radiator fan as I mentioned last time. I would urge you to get the test I described done as soon as possible to either confirm this or rule it out. The necessity to bleed the system only occurs after it has been drained for repair work, so if none has been done then an air lock is unlikely. Jon also asks this: Quote:
I agree with your plans to do whatever you can yourselves and to not use that garage again. I look forward to the next bulletin! Simon |
There must be Landrover Dealers in the area - find one, they will be tooled up for the Freelander which had the same engine fitted.
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bienvenue dans votre concession land rover cannes Notre équipe est à votre disposition pour vous accompagner lors de l’achat de votre véhicule Land Rover. Découvrez sur notre site la gamme et les dernières nouveautés Land Rover , les occasions Land Rover récentes ou nos véhicules neufs d Might be worth a try if still in operation.---:D Co-ords.---43,574849, 7,009751 |
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Thank you all for your replies and advice. I am in France but my focus is packing up dad's life in order to get him back to the UK.
The car isn't overheating and dad now says it is not leaking. It is very difficult for me to know what's what. I am not a mechanic 🤣 and dad is not very reliable at the moment. I really appreciate the advice and it is booked into a different (recommended garage) for a second opinion. I will pass on all advice to the garage. Fingers crossed. Thank you again and much appreciated. |
Thank you Colvert and Costa Fortuna. Do you think it is worth contacting the Land rover garage rather than a recommended garage by a friend of his.
Sorry, this site is very difficult to navigate on a phone . |
I love your giraffe . Coming from Africa, it makes me smile.
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Hi all. I have looked at the car this morning. The fan (if that is the one behind the front grill) is running continuously.
The car is still leaking. I have taken a photo but can't find how to attach it. It is dripping down from the bottom of the grey block (radiator?). But I don't think that's the source of the leak, if that makes any sense. Sorry, not a mechanic 🙃 |
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Simon |
Thank you for you reply Simon. It is wierd. It is dripping not from the radiator but a metal bar behind it and the liquid is yellow. The coolant reservoir was just replaced so is new and there is no powder around the cap.
What is weird is a small amount of liquid running down from the right hand side, to the right of the bolt, of the black box (sorry 😣) that has the V6 badge on it. I don't think it can be coming from above. I wish I could attach pictures, it would make more sense to you! |
Thank you all for your help and guidance. We have made a decision that we will put the car on the back of a truck and bring it back to the UK to be looked at. With dad's move, it is just getting too stressful.
Is anyone able to recommend a garage to take it to. Dad will be in Virginia Water, Surrey. Thank you again. |
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You can let me know by Private Message. Simon :} |
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PS. By the way, I'm 84 too, the same age as your dad.--:eek: |
Thread update
I have received a PM from Fiona. It turns out that the logistics are a bit more complicated and we're discussing how to deal with them.
Simon |
Thank you Colvert. Hopefully we can find a solution.
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Update: UK arrival
Fiona's Dad's car arrived at Virginia Water today from France and I was there to meet it.
The expansion tank has been overfilled by the garage in France after they fitted a new one and consequently there are signs of ejection through the cap valve. There are also the classic pools of coolant in the 'V'. I was able to see the position of the serrated clips and one of them is not in the correct position. ;) The radiator fan is working on slow speed. At the moment, it looks as if all that's needed is a set of new 'O' rings followed by the special KV6 bleeding procedure. Not wanting a repeat of what Fiona was told in France, I offered to do this work for her and she has accepted. I'll post further updates when appropriate. Simon |
Simon,
Will you be undertaking the task alone or inviting along those with different views on the root-cause of these leaks so that Fiona can experience the air of camaraderie and mutual respect first hand? Sorry, but could not resist. :laughing2::laughing2::laughing2: |
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Song by Dick Emery.----:D--- [/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv2hjK5oQa0SIZE] |
Hi Simon. Thanks for offering to help Fiona, so she, on behalf of her father, are not being ripped off. Keep us in touch on how it all goes please. Cheers.
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Someone's been in here before. I've found loom clips not attached, tie wraps cut and not replaced and inlet manifold screws of varying tightness. It's all a bit of a mess.
https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...a80f63dc8c.jpg Most significant though is that the serrated clip at the water pump end hadn't been tightened at all. I can spin it with my little finger! :eek: Simon |
Come on quick please with the latest. Couldn't sleep last night. Can we skip to the happy ending?
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I agree. Then we can all get on with the really exciting part - the debate about how Simon should have done the job! I have never been near a KV6 but already have my critique all prepared. :D:} |
Interesting discoveries. Shame we can't really see the thermostat housing.
I also found that some bolts were tighter than others when removing the inlet manifolds last week (not my work), but I also remember a post by perhaps Lovel where he mentioned the need to check the bolts a week or two after reassembly. Any evidence of water permeating the inlet gaskets? Keep well |
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The latest is that gloopy black mastic had been applied, presumably by the garage in France, to parts of the inlet manifold gaskets and to all the 'O' rings. The curved pipe was stuck fast and it took me an hour to get it off but I managed not to damage it. :} I now know that no attempt had been made to tighten both the serrated clips. Only the 'O' ring at the base of the thermostat housing had flattened. Those on the straight and curved pipes were in good condition. I'll renew them all of course. Quote:
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Tomorrow's jobs will be to clean the manifold faces, remove the black sealant from the coolant pipes and order new parts! To everyone who posted today, thanks for your professional interest. :disco: Simon |
The latest
I thought you might like to see what I've been dealing with today; the black gunge!
https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d4fe429cb2.jpg The water pump inlet: https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d4fe4ce4f4.jpg Simon |
Glad I do not have to use that garage. What a mess. Even an apprentice would not do anything like that withthe Black gunge. I along with many of us have no doubt seen other bodges on vehicles, done in the belief it may work. Hope they did not pay for that abomination of a ‘repair’ . I wish you all the best with this repair Simon.
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Plenum chamber puzzle
Has anyone else got this, a rubber seam strip floating below the seam with extremely messy rubberised adhesive stuck to the panel above it:
https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...e99893703f.jpg Simon Edit the following day: I've discovered today that the loose rubber seam strip pictured should be attached to the rear of the splash shield and not crudely stuck to the bulkhead with black rubberised sealing compound. |
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Bless you for helping them, Simon.
Glenn |
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Simon |
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Simon |
And a well done for your kind help from me too Simon. :bowdown:
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Yesterday evening I removed Mr. & Mrs. Mouse's bed from the plenum chamber and in doing so I noticed that the drain tube below the pollen filter was missing. As it appears to traverse a double skin in the bodywork I would like to obtain a replacement so I've posted in the "Parts wanted" section. I've also received authorisation to change the engine oil which is jet black, gloopy and probably overfilled as everything else was (coolant, PAS fluid). The car will also receive a pair of new bonnet struts. Simon |
Sometimes the top of the plenum drain tube can be pushed inside the gap it sits in when rodding is attempted Simon. It might not be visible on casual inspection but on close inspection it can often be seen sitting beneath the surface and still retrievable with long-nose pliers or maybe another improvised way. Could this have happened, is the bottom of the tube still in place and visible from underneath the car?
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I did crawl under the car this afternoon but had real difficulty seeing the drain tube on the offside which is still in place. On the nearside, when viewed from above, there is no evidence of a tube. I can clearly see through the double skin to beneath the car. I've taken a photo but it hasn't made it to the cloud yet. When it does, I'll post it. Thanks for your suggestion. Simon PS A kind club member is donating a drain tube so that Fiona's Dad's plenum chamber can once again discharge rainwater as designed. |
The happy ending!
Well, Fiona's Dad's car is fixed! Let's remind ourselves of the diagnosis by the garage in France:
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In the 'V' there were the usual pools of coolant. I fitted four new standard MG Rover 'O' rings to the original thermostat housing and pipework after painstakingly removing the black gunge that a garage had smeared over everything. The housing was not the original and no attempt had been made to tighten the two serrated clips on the straight pipe so it was not surprising that the 'O' rings were leaking. Since the inlet manifold gaskets have an elastomer seal, when removed I always fit new ones. The deteriorated originals in this case showed some evidence of engine overheating. Other faults rectified
I've test driven the car and it runs with its coolant temperature in the low nineties with no coolant leaks or ejection through the cap. The fan cuts in at 100˚ and out again at 95˚. So no head gasket replacement or change of engine was required! :rolleyes: What a surprise. Fiona learnt about our club through an English contact in France. I'm so pleased that she followed this up with her call for help as otherwise this Copperleaf Connoisseur with only 54,000 on the clock would have been destroyed on economic grounds or further bodged by "professional" mechanics. :getmecoat: Simon |
A real success story Simon! :xmas-smiley-008:
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Fantastic, Simon. Well done for you!
The world needs more Simons. Say, your last name isn't Templar by any chance, is it? :icon_biggrin: Cheers, Glenn |
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Simon |
Did you sort out the LHD/RHD headlights ???
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The person who cleared the owner's garage in France told me that no spare parts, such as RHD headlamps, were found. It's a puzzle because I can't imagine the Rover passing the French equivalent of an MOT with dazzling headlamps. Would I be right? We'll find out when it's put in for its UK MOT. Simon |
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PS. We still call it MOT though it's really the DOT now. Was "Ministry" and now "Department"-. |
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