When is an independence referendum not an independence referendum?:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ole-snp-latest

When it's an advisory negotiation referendum of course.

Scots living in wales,northern ireland and england are also entitled to their vote too. i would have thought. A U.K vote seems fair. EX pats voted abroad in certain areas during the brexit vote did they not ? i want to see how the scots force this vote , and for it to have any legal standing. Boris may start changing a few more laws !!

The problem with giving the UK population the vote on Scottish independence would be to give the majority a controlling say and therefore the ability to override the wishes of the local community who, overall, would be in the minority.

If the UK voted to keep Scotland within the UK but the majority in Scotland wished otherwise, would we then just call them separatists and send in the military to keep them within the union?

The latest threat, and that's what it is, from SNP in general and the leader in particular, is a perfect example of the character and attitude to honourable representation from a tiny group of agitators with no respect for the law. All this on a phoney tide of patriotism. The Scots have a deserved reputation for erudition and seeing through scammers, where has that gone?

A tiny group of agitators about sums it up. Until the SNP get a true and workable majority at the ballot box,i doubt they will ever have a strong case for independence. The SNP only have about one third of voters . The rest is made up of a coalition gov supported by the greens and others, who clearly have an ulterior motive. This puts into the respective of a minority not being allowed self determination. Until they can demonstrate a solid mandate majority , its not going anywhere.

Yeah, lets allow the English to vote on the future of the Scots, that is a great idea and very fair, NOT.

It is entirely up to the Scots to decide if they want to govern themselves as an independent nation, and not be ruled by the English.

I am neither English nor Scottish, however I admire peoples who decide they are going to make their own decisions, and go for it no matter what.

Yep, agreed with that, right up to the 'no matter what' bit!

If it really was a vote for independence then ok. But it's not, is it. It's singularly and widely advertised as a precursor to joining the EU. Wouldn't surprise me if clandestine approaches have already been made and closely guarded with assurances given.

Those assurances can be waived, as we have found. As we all now know, that is a very long way from independence. The Scot Nats are infants in that game, the EU hold all the cards. Then of course, it's too late.

If what you had written was accurate, it would indeed be a travesty. But it isn't, so it's not.

Regarding sore losers in the Brexit referendum, I hope you're not referring to me - as I have already made plain, it makes little difference to me either way. I only mention it as an instructive experience with a great deal of direct relevance to mbev's original post about the likelihood of the issue becoming highly divisive and leaving very few people better off.

With your point about Indyref2 being a stealth way of getting Scotland into the EU, you seem to have forgotten that more Scots wanted to stay within the EU than Brits in total wanted to leave. The whole point of leaving the UK is so they can determine their own future! It is irrelevant whether or not you think that Scotland should or shouldn't join the EU - they simply don't want people like you lecturing them on what is or isn't good for them. And recent events are highly unlikely to have reduced the proportion of Scots who prefer life within the EU. And whether or not you like the way in which the SNP is trying to bring about a second referendum, I don't think anyone who supports the current Westminster government is in a position to lecture anyone else about what is legal and proper. Do you?

You are incorrect as they are not self governing except in certain areas. They have no responsibiity for foreign policy (and also defence though that is irrevelant to the discussion) which is why UK government deals with the EU.

Its accuracy is debateable. That’s the whole point of these boards! I wasn’t referring to you, or anybody else on here personally, it’s just another view! I don’t necessarily think Scotland should not join the EU! I’m saying that is the apparent intention within the S. Nats party and comparing that apparent aim with their current favoured membership of the present arrangements. But, as a truly independent country I think they could sink into the North Atlantic.

I’m not lecturing anybody old chap, just expressing my view in polite terms, I hope! You seem to be taking my comments as a personal insult! Steady on! Take a step back!

No, I don’t think ‘lecturing’ others on what is ‘right’ or ‘proper’ is good. Do you? I don't see opposing comment as a personal insult either, just another comment. The only 'lecturing' is done by experts. Are you one of those? Ease up! It’s discussion, not assertion!