Plenum Check - The Reason Why **ALL OWNERS PLEASE NOTE**
 

Plenums we hear so much about them and the reason why is very clear below in the photo's that follow.

And even more important this time of year with the Autum leaf fall etc.


Yesterday a member of the club Mike came to have his handbrake mod fitted, as i always do i checked the plenum's after asking if he had checked them it turned out he had only brought the car Sunday so the car was very new to him, he had looked at the plenums from the drivers side and could see some water and he also heard the sloshing sound when driving.

The results can be seen below so come on gents lets keep on top of these plenums do the spyhole mod and its only takes 2 minutes to check for water once applied.

Pic 1 water at least 3" deep
https://i.imgur.com/kAtHJbNl.jpg1

Pic 2 The water must have been deeper at some stage according the the pollen filter marks
https://i.imgur.com/kAtHJbNl.jpg2

Pic 3 starting to rod the plenum tube to clear the soggy leaves and dirt which as bunged up the lower tube
https://i.imgur.com/OLMliq7l.jpg3

Pics 4 the water starts to flush out of the plenum this went on for at least 2 mins
https://i.imgur.com/lj2Eghfl.jpg4

Pic 5 Still pouring out strong
https://i.imgur.com/8jm9IEWl.jpg5

Pic 6 slowly stopping with the rain we have been having this so easly could have been worse ECU damage which would have been a crying shame as this MGZT as only 20000 mile on the clock.
https://i.imgur.com/z4u6LeKl.jpg6

Pic 7 All the water drained away this should not happen again as the spyhole mod was put in place and Mike shown how to rod them each week at the same time as checking his oil water etc.
https://i.imgur.com/CJWtq4Nl.jpg7

So lets get checking the plenums right away there is no excuse ;) not to, all the best Arctic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAj8...wzWShpKlaa5H9g

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This is how you can check your plenums if you have never checked them before this is mainly for new members that is why i have put this thread together so it is all in one place on how to check and also add the spyhole mod & leaf stopper/collector if you so wish, in my opinion worth doing.

This is the windscreen scuttle panel/outer grille which will have to be removed to start checking the plenum for water ingress below Fig1
https://i.imgur.com/y0eKwQal.jpg1

First peel off the weatherstrip up to the wiper fixing point at least Fig2
https://i.imgur.com/zQRvDGrl.jpg2

Now you can press in the plastic spring clips to remove the grille panel Fig 3
https://i.imgur.com/iVa6WErl.jpg3

This will then allow you to remove it and store it safe for the time being Fig 4
https://i.imgur.com/XFAGyhnl.jpg4

Next step is to remove the front screw/clip sometimes you may have to prise this up if it will not screw out.Fig 5/6
https://i.imgur.com/cQLPiSDl.jpg5

Now removed put this safe also
https://i.imgur.com/V3OmKQIl.jpg6

Next prise up and remove the rear scuttle clips hold your finger over the top because these can fly off sometimes never to be found again Fig7/8
https://i.imgur.com/3GxCUaUl.jpg7

https://i.imgur.com/36VqgjQl.jpg8

Remove the first three of these and again put them safe for re-fitting after Fig 9/10
https://i.imgur.com/l9OttLll.jpg9

https://i.imgur.com/Afnzfy3l.jpg10

This will now allow you to lift the front of the scuttle and get access to the shield panel tray which needs to be removed. Fig 11
https://i.imgur.com/VNrkZaZl.jpg11

You can grip and remove the shield panel tray and slid it carefully out from its recess Fig 12/13
https://i.imgur.com/bU2smo5l.jpg12

https://i.imgur.com/dAiXCegl.jpg13

This now exposes the lower plenum and pollen filter area this is also where the ECU resides and can get damaged if water is allowed to build up because of the blocked plenum tube Fig 14
https://i.imgur.com/J7IDIewl.jpg14

Here you can see how i have rodded the tube with my choice of rodding tools a plumbers spring pipe bender 10mm or 15mm also note even though i check these every week that because of the deluge of rain we have had this year and month water is still getting to a certain height from the line seen on the pollen filter, this was empty when i took these photo's but must be filling even though clear because of shear volume of water Fig 15
https://i.imgur.com/tfwYkHLl.jpg15

This shows the rodding tool i use pipe bender with a boot lace and plastic tube the reason why will be seen later in the thread. Fig 16
https://i.imgur.com/8GCiuFml.jpg16

The shield panel tray can now be re-fitted back into place Fig 17/18
https://i.imgur.com/p4hvJUCl.jpg17

https://i.imgur.com/aIV07I5l.jpg18

This photo shows the spyhole mod so the plenum cab be checked and rodded in the future with out having to remove the scuttle clips and trays. Fig 19
https://i.imgur.com/AwKerZ0l.jpg19

Here you can see the rodding tool again in use showing why the lace and plastic tube is needed because the plenum is at least 24" deep Fig 20/21
https://i.imgur.com/ajRhFyol.jpg20

https://i.imgur.com/ajRhFyol.jpg21

Here you can how the spring as come all the way through the plenum and the tube until it reaches the ground under the car Fig 22
https://i.imgur.com/Jc4V2Qbl.jpg22

Once rodded and if you have the spyhole mod in place fit a rubber 25mm bung which can be easily removed rodding in the future Fig 23
https://i.imgur.com/aIV07I5l.jpg23

Replace the front screw clip Fig 24
https://i.imgur.com/uGN2f86l.jpg24

Replace the three scuttle back clips Fig 25/26
https://i.imgur.com/PMd4prZl.jpg25

https://i.imgur.com/TiQnrwll.jpg26

Next replace the rubber weatherstrip Fig 27
https://i.imgur.com/zQRvDGrl.jpg27

And last of all with the job finished refit the windscreen grille panel Fig 28/29
https://i.imgur.com/XFAGyhnl.jpg28

https://i.imgur.com/y0eKwQal.jpg29

The plumber spring i use with lace and plastci tube attached for the extra length needed to get to the bottom of the plenum 10mm or 15mm obtained from Toolstation, Screwfix, B&Q etc Fig 30
https://i.imgur.com/8GCiuFml.jpg30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCTc1...wzWShpKlaa5H9g

Roding the plenum
http://youtu.be/9Hw2SMBPU48


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Spyhole Mod Continued At Post 21 Click the Link
https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...1&postcount=21

Yes despite MrDoodles checking with his rod when I visited him I found the same one as you show all bunged up with twigs and leaves. So bad in fact that when pushing it through it pulled the drain tube off it's seat. It was a bit of a bear to pull back and re-seat :(.

There was not water in there it was all dry in mine so I cleared out all the loose stuff I could find and reach so it cannot wash down and block the drain when it rains.

I've done mine this week, bone dry, but needed a good rodding as was blocked.

Hi,

Checked mine for a few weeks ago and discovered that the complete rubber hose was missing. Should I be concerned about this??

Excellent pictures, that really shows the importance of checking the plenum regularly and as said if the spyhole mod is done the task takes minutes.

If you mean the plenum floor drain then yes. The general view on this is that the tubes should always be replaced. The plenum floor you see is actually the upper floor of two. There's a closed box section between them into which the water will run. As far as we know, it stays in there somewhere, totally inaccessible and presumably encouraging rust.

TC

Hi

I can see right through to the ground, so mine's either been circumcised or it's missing, too. I'm going to check it out because, according to information from T-Cut on the following thread, if it's missing then water can get trapped further down in the compartment and cause corrosion. I'm also worried about mice nesting in my pollen filter this winter, or worse still, rewiring my ECU.:D

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=414448

Regards
Robert

Beat me to it TC!:D

Regards

Is it possible for water to get into the cabin and under the carpet is the rubber drain pipe is not seated properly?

Great pics as usual Steve

The best advice, as always, is to stop the bigger bits getting into the plenum in the first place.

Either buy Jules plastic plenum guards, or fit some 'gutter guard' plastic mesh material. All that is needed is the gaps at each side of the plenum (by the bonnet hinges), suitably filled in such that water can go down, but not leaves, twigs, paper and other debris.

Add the plenum spyhole mod, then you can easily check the drains are clear.

Wet Carpets
 

AFAIK it's only the sunroof drains that do that. Never heard of wet carpets / water in the cabin being blamed on missing plenum drain tubes.

Blimey, you have some clever mice down your way. Do you think they'd be able to wire in a remote control box for my FBH? ;)

Very good !

:clap:

My carpets get wet and I don't have a sunroof. Drivers footwell and then rear driver's side. Plenums clear and kept clear as did my own mod. The water finds its way in somewhere!!!

Strange though after last nights downpour - dry as a bone. It seems to be long periods of rain when car is left standing for a few weeks... :shrug:

Oh dear TGB does not have a sunroof :confused: but she sure does have water where it should not be. Have just got to find/figure out where it's coming from, correction where it's getting in :p: before some wags says the Sky :smilie_re:.

my Connie tourer is the same age as yours and does not have any rubber in it and when I peer in I can see the ground (which means it cannot flood the ECU at least). I had not thought there might be a lower chamber but I did wonder on reading this if MGR did a late mod on some of the final MKIIs to get rid of the blockable tubes?

The tubes should be in place on all models from 99 through to the time of closure, if not there i have heard that some dealer removed the tubes :shrug: why i dont know maybe thinking its the best bet other than ECU damage if missing i would suggest replacing.

I am in the process of adding to this thread the spyhole mod, and the plenum leaf collector with pics as always so they are all in one place on a thread to save new members searching from one post or thread to another.

The first chance i get i will try and get a camera down the plenum chamber with the tube removed and see what lies below :D Arctic.

Here's a picture of the Plenum guard which is supplied by Jules.


http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/u...4/e471f262.jpg

Leaf stopper/collector
 

To help stop leaves and debris from getting into the plenum below you can use this gutter netting very cheap and does the job wonderful brought from pound shop,lidil and Aldi.

One roll will do eight cars so if you are going to any meets a worth while mod to do takes about 20 mins to do both sides ;) you will need sissors four cable ties one gutter grip and a rule. Fig 1
http://i46.tinypic.com/2ed6p1e.jpg1

Cut two pieces of the wire 15" long Fig 2
http://i45.tinypic.com/ejwz0y.jpg2

Next cut down lengthways and 2.5" in from the edge by 5" both pieces of wire Fig 3/4
http://i49.tinypic.com/2wgrepl.jpg3

http://i47.tinypic.com/2wee976.jpg4

Next trim the corner of both pieces of the netting you can do the while fitting it to the car to get a more acurate cut i am able to do it because i have a template ;) Fig 5/6
http://i46.tinypic.com/34790nd.jpg5

http://i49.tinypic.com/22lzxl.jpg6

All the parts ready for fitting to the car over the wing plenum tubes near and offsides Fig 7
http://i46.tinypic.com/j0lgeb.jpg7

To fit remove the front and rear scuttle clips as in the plenum photo shoot at the start of the thread, this will help when you feed the netting under the scuttle to seal the appeture/gap over the tubes, if you did not cut the corner before you can cut it to shape now Fig 8
http://i45.tinypic.com/11ty8ll.jpg8

Once you have cut to shape and held the nett in place by the bolts holding the bonnet hinge and the gutter clip near side passenger drill two 5mm holes for the cable ties Fig 9
http://i49.tinypic.com/er0381.jpg9

Cable ties attached Fig 10
http://i46.tinypic.com/15ciq09.jpg10

A little nick in the nett so the tube can be rodded Fig 11
http://i45.tinypic.com/msd99z.jpg11

Neat finished job all for £1 or £2.49 the most and 20 mins of your time at home or a meet Fig 12-14
http://i50.tinypic.com/34npppf.jpg12

http://i50.tinypic.com/jt8bi0.jpg13

http://i47.tinypic.com/4ryu69.jpg14

This is real easy and well worth doing ;) Arctic.
.

Spyhole Mod Easy To Do
 

[QUOTE=Arctic;1109189]Plenums we hear so much about them and the reason why is very clear below in the photo's that follow.

And even more important this time of year with the Autum leaf fall etc.


Yesterday a member of the club Mike came to have his handbrake mod fitted, as i always do i checked the plenum's after asking if he had checked them it turned out he had only brought the car Sunday so the car was very new to him, he had looked at the plenums from the drivers side and could see some water and he also heard the sloshing sound when driving.

The results can be seen below so come on gents lets keep on top of these plenums do the spyhole mod and its only takes 2 minutes to check for water once applied.

Pic 1 water at least 3" deep
http://i47.tinypic.com/2hr040w.jpg1

Below is how to do the spyhole mod you will need a rule pencil 25mm drill bit and a 25mm rubber bung Fig 1
http://i48.tinypic.com/14cd7ba.jpg1

With the scuttle shield panel removed measure 97mm and 180mm from the points in the photo below Fig 2/3
http://i48.tinypic.com/167qype.jpg2

http://i49.tinypic.com/2ihl560.jpg3

Width to center point of the auger 3a/3b
http://i59.tinypic.com/v2uxvm.jpg3a

http://i57.tinypic.com/295y4hu.jpgb


Here you can see my template which i use at meets so i can easly turn over a good volume of trays in a few minutes Fig 4
http://i49.tinypic.com/jl4awg.jpg4

With the panel marked out and your drill ready with its 25mm bit we/you can now drill the spyhole Fig 5
http://i49.tinypic.com/aeof29.jpg5

When you drill the scuttle tray makes sure you have support under the tray at all times Fig 6
http://i47.tinypic.com/24o4n7o.jpg6

http://i45.tinypic.com/idrghw.jpg7

http://i50.tinypic.com/2q0ogut.jpg8

http://i45.tinypic.com/2yn5kko.jpg9

http://i46.tinypic.com/o0q9hz.jpg10

Once drilled trim the hole to make it neat for the rubber bung to fit nice Fig 11
http://i47.tinypic.com/nysnjs.jpg11

Spyhole mod done and ready for use Fig 12/
http://i49.tinypic.com/358dkkw.jpg12

This shows the plumbers spring pipe bender Fig 13/14
http://i45.tinypic.com/339syzk.jpg13

http://i47.tinypic.com/2f0b1hx.jpg14

If you intend to use the plumbers spring look for a 10mm or 15mm a boot lace and a tube mine was from an old wendy house but any 15mm tube will do 12" to 15" long Fig 15
http://i48.tinypic.com/4jm8lg.jpg15

Also grind or file the end of the spring to remove the curl so it is smooth and will easly go into the tube Fig 16
http://i49.tinypic.com/314cw1g.jpg16

Spring being used in situ Fig 17
http://i46.tinypic.com/25gxpom.jpg17

Hope this helps the new members and remember check the plenums regular Arctic.

WOW!!!!! Just checked the plenums on mine finally and found 3 1/2 inches of water in there and a piece of somebodys shirt!!!, will put pics up later, anyone who hasnt done this, do it NOW!!!!.

I guess this could be one of many things; first port of call the front screen and the various clips that hold the trim on; second is whether it can come in around the door seals??

My doggy aroma was the sunroof and now its as dry as a sea biscuit thanks to Arctic's excellent thread but sadly if you have no SR it must be something else.

:shrug:

look forward to a pic of 'what lies beneath'!!

I think this looks to me like a dealer mod on mine then as the tube is absent and I can clearly see the road below. (and I can pretty much hose it and no water comes in anywhere??

Hi John.
Hope you going to do the spyhole mod now it makes it much easier to check also change the pollen filter as it must be soaking with that amount of water in the plenum looks like you have had a lucky escape ;) Arctic

Yes, just Pricing up replacement filter now, thankyou.

Pics of plenum

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...8&d=1349525183http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...9&d=1349525211http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...0&d=1349525236http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...1&d=1349525257http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...2&d=1349525289

And a piece of somebodys shirt that was in there!!!

Had my 75 for about 6 weeks now, after reading this thread I thought it was time I checked mine.
It appears that someone has modified my central one - it has a grommet type thing at the top, which looks like the original, but there's no centre in it.
Underneath that, there is what appears to be a length of rubber tube with an inner diameter of 10 - 15mm which goes town to the floor level of the car.
Shine a torch down and I can clearly see the road underneath, it's not blocked & my plenum's bone dry.
Seems like the old girl's had a pretty enthusiastic owner at some point.

Well, feel better now, plenum all nice and dry, new pollen filter and spyhole mod done, thanks to all for the pictures and how to's on here.


John

looks and sounds like my first 75 but I doubt its all the way up there!!

Brings bad such bad merrories of my diesel R75

Get checking folks it's easy enough to do following what steve has done here

Graham

Hi John.
Glad that you caught it in time lets hope all the mebers check them and regular at least once a week with the old jack frost about now you will be carring your own giant ice cube if you do not that water will turn a solid block, then if it rains or you decide to wash the car water on top of that will soon reach the ECU :shrug: just not worth it rod and rod again is the name :D Arctic

You never know - I bought it from a dealer in Derby, previous keeper was in Great Yarmouth - she's been around a bit!

Just done my spy hole. I used a 20mm drill since I have a box of same size electricans closed backbox grommets. The spring fits the hole OK, it went straight through to the ground. Unfortunately I snapped the scuttle tray at a weak spot, it's not serious but I'd like to glue it back together, any idea what glue is best?

Assuming the inventor of the spy hole method approves of the size I'd be happy to supply members with a 20mm grommet simply by sending me a stamped addressed envelope. I don't know how easy they are to come by singley.

Those wires showing, i wonder what they are? if anything to do with heater or wipers maybe thats my problem with them not working immediately?

Exactly what i did, 20mm grommet.

Thanks to all involved for keeping us informed of the plenum issues, especially this useful thread. Today, went out took daughter to school then off to take mumsy to post office, parked at mumsies and car would not start , turn ignition it all lights up and nothing, not a glimmer, nothing, zip squat, lots of swear words later and checks under bonnet scratching of head and I remembered what all you said about plenums.

Was not sure it would be that, as I have done them ( admitted not lately ), and there were no leaves at that time ( i dont live or park near trees ) , just water that does not come out without a prod... the lip on the rubber drain hole doesnt help, but anyways pulled it all out as described in this thread , and hey ho, all that rain last night, and I had a duck lake.

Quick prod with my flexible cane strip and water wooshed away. Got into car, turned ignition and she fired up. Quickly drove Mumsy to the post office and back home keeping car ticking over incase, then came straight back home and decided to check again for sure, plus I had a new pollen filter to fit but weather had been against me.

Decided to flush tube with hot water to remove any residue,(lifting ecu out of the way of course) looked clear but nothing to lose with a good hot soak... all clear, dried it all out, removed dirty wet stinky pollen filter and put a nice clear white one in, all back together and firing first time everytime.

SO, the moral is, when the nice guys on here suggest we "check your plenums Weekly" it is probably a Good Idea , as I shout that loudly to myself !!

Cheers all. signed relieved.

Hi,
I get the 97mm measurement from the datum (plastic raised part), but what is the 180mm measurement for, are there two holes to be drilled. Also what is the vertical distance from the plastic rib?
Thanks
IM

[QUOTE=Arctic;1109951]Hi Imran
the 180mm is to give a more acurate measurement from the edge also you have to points to focus on then just me being over the top really :D the vertical measurement is here in the pics below 23mm and in old money 7/8" hope that helps you cheers Arctic
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...1&d=1353686654http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...2&d=1353686668http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...3&d=1353686684http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...4&d=1353686748http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...5&d=1353686762

Thanks for the explanation and for taking the time to photo and post. much appreciated!

I was wondering what all the fuss was about. I opened my bonnet looked in each rear corner, saw the clear plenums, checked them with a watering can. all OK.
DIDNT realise there was a THIRD one hidden away, and thats the grief ridden one!

So just been out to check mine and its all clear (should i be able to see the road through it? ) and as an added bonus pollen filter shows no signs of flood damage :)

thanks again

Artic,

Fabulous, all clear now, I will hopefully be doing this on the weekend.

Many thanks,
IM

Did mine today and yes it was blocked.About 1" of water on the pollen filter. Thanks Artic for the info and photos.

I Nev.
As long as the rubber bung is still inplace you are ok it may mean that some previous owner may have cut the end of the tube at 45% degrees which is better really as they tend not to get blocked so easy Arctic.;)

Hi Dennis.
Great seems you have caught it just in time what with these wild winds and deludge of rain this is the main time they can get blocked with lots of leaves falling and blowing about, if you do the spyhole mod you can then check them once a week when checking your oil, water top up washer bottle etc as i do, hope all members remember that the plenums need checking on a regular basis this time of year Arctic ;)

Another "stitch in time" there Steve and an impending ECU & carpets disaster avoided.
(Jules tip here on removing the Poppet oval clips. No need to dig them out with a screw driver, which can leave unsightly marks on the skuttle panel, instead simply put your fingers over the clips with one hand while giving the panel a sharp tug, The clips pop out of their own accord)


Advice to all:
Make sure the end of your tubes are circumcised!!
It does help stop them getting blocked as long as you stop the debris entering the plenum area in the first place
(either use DIY gauze or order my Plenum shield kit
So many Garages remove the lower plenum tubes ans it's a silly thing to do IMO.
Water then gets into the box section to cause further future problems.

Plus we bought the last few remaining tubes from Rimmers. :o
Maybe replace your missing tubes from salvage cars .

plenums
 

Hi all; went out in zt yesterday and missus was driving(thankfully) going down the motorway and passenger side footwell became so wet i could splash water with my shoe; looked up this thread and i have duly cleared the drains in the plenum chamber; the water was well up on the pollen filter so think i have caught it just before it was able to reach the ecu; followed the instructions as in this thread and all is now unblocked; cant believe just how much water was in there; hoping the carpet dries out and will defo be checking the drains more often now:}

The drain on the drivers side of my 75 is blocked off. Late 2004 model. Is this normal?

there are others that can confirm for sure but i think thats correct as it is to high to do anything.
macafee2

Hi Greg.
Yes that is normal for your year of car as this was one of Rovers preproject cut backs :shrug: you could always pull out the bung and replace it with a tube and a Jules Plenum shield kit. Which i have done with mine and both work a treat Arctic;)

Hi Pat sounds like you caught it in time, i would now change the pollen filter do the spyhole mod and if you have a sunroof check the sunroof drain tubes, Arctic.
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...of+drain+tubes

Hello Chaps,

I've always check mine by pouring water into them and if it pops out the other end, i didnt have to worry. Is that not a correct assumption? Got me thinking now.:shrug:

Rich

Another spy hole done.
 

Just followed Arctic's instructions and done the spy hole mod when I had the cover out to check the plenums. I was lucky with only a cup or so of water there. Just need to find the Jules guard I bought 2 1/2 years ago when they first came out and haven't got around to fitting !

looked at mine the other week had about 1 inch of water so came on here looked at ATRICS way of doing the mod and worked perfectly now it will be only a few mins to rod it if it gets blocked again

Cheers :christmas:

Thanks that's great
 

What a brilliant and useful post. Thanks:-):}:}

A handy piece of kit for this is a NATO 5.56mm cleaning rod- normally available on E-bay for £5-10.

The t-handle means you can REALLY poke through any blockages and the rod breaks down into a little pouch about 6" long, meaning you can even leave it in the glovebox (like for if you go on holiday for a rainy fortnight in autumn and find yourself parked under trees every day :mad: )

The fact it screws together in sections means you can get at the rear plenum easily without having to contort a longer pole- just build 2 sectons together, push into to the grommit at the bottom of the hole, then screw on the handle and away you go :)

Can you put a link on for these please? Cheers

Jesús glad it helped :D and hope you were able to follow the instructions easy enough ;) Arctic.

First one of a long list that came on Ebay:


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Authentic-...item3a7db7a969

yep have to agree i think a big thanks to steve is in order for taking the time to take these pictures and put together an easy to follow guide for members to follow... he is the david bailey of the 75/zt world :D

Maybe these could work but lack flexiblity and the bonnet may well get in the way still opt for the 10mm or 15mm plumbers pipe spring £3.50 from any good DIY shop ;) Arctic.

And once you've cleaned the lower drains out why not stop all the debris going down there in the first place.
We all know how to do that don't we? ;)

And it's not a plug to buy my plenum guard leaf shield BTW (whatever you want to call it !)
There's netting and sponge you can source yourselves.

Then stop worrying about drains and just check them on the annual service.
Put some water down the RH bonnet hinge area every time you wash the car, see it coming out below, you know they are clear ............done and dusted !

Checking them every week is a little paranoid me thinks

Cleaned out plenums today, found a lot of leaves & 2 large rubber grommets partialy blocking plenum on the N/S, no idea where the grommets have come from, did the mod., cleaned out drain holes on top of the wings (one clear, one totally blocked), very helpful thread & photos. Also changed the fuel filter (another job done !!), cheers John

Well done.
You're final job is to prevent the leaves & debris going down there in the first place with one of these :smilie_re:

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ad.php?t=68328

The gromets you found might be from front face of bulkhead.
Put them back it's noisy and fumes from engine bay enter cabin without them!!

It's a draft move why folk remove these and even worse the drain tubes.
Water enters the lower box section and lingers there with no tubes fitted .
There's no drain holes in the box section so beware!!

I was surprised after cleaning all the muck out of mine and flushing through with a hose pipe that the driver's side drain under the servo was blocked as noticed it when under the car and cleaned it out with a long screwdriver ... not sure if it's good for the complexion, but certainly got a face full of rotting muck and water just from what was in the tube ! lol.
Did modify the plenum air vent covers by adding a layer of finer mesh to the underside to stop natures split pins (pine needles) from entering, and coarse foam (fish pond filter grade) made to fit the open drivers side. I wish they'd put the ecu's in the battery box and the battery in the boot like my old P6 V8 ....

Oh yes servo one can still block up clean and cut some off it 15mm ;)
http://i45.tinypic.com/29lfhu8.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/zocqj9.jpg

vengence of the weather
 

With the bad weather coming back with a vengence rain then snow and cold frosts check those plenums as water can freeze and cause a plug in the lower plenum and if it rains right after a cold spell they can fill up quickly ad we all know the outcome better to be safe than sorry ;) Arctic.

Maybe only applicable to cars laid up Steve
The heat from the engine soon thaws the bulkhead through;)

Hi Jules noted i was thinking more of if the tube had a bit of debris in it and the flaps have not been cut off and the the tube being at the lowest point could still be frozen ;) its like the Arctic here :D

Plenum below servo.
 

:DJacked car up today & cleaned out the plenum under the servo, it was totally blocked, also got all the muck out from around the servo & placed some mesh to stop leaves etc getting in again, thanks Artic for the thread info & photos, great help.:bowdown:
Thanks to you guys I'm getting to know this car slowly but surely, next jobs are PCV filter & air filter, cheers John. :)

Hi John.
Great dont forget to try and do the spyhole mod also couple of links for you below for PCV filter etc.
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=108122

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=104733

Thanks Artic, really helpful links, (some more jobs for my list lol), did the spyhole mod the other day, cheers m8, John

Just testing signature !!!!!!!!!!!

So glad I read this, popped out to take a quick look tonight, and about 3" of water in there, sucked out with a hose for now, will get on with sorting that after work tomorrow . Thanks again probably saved me from a big issue, have ordered new pollen filter, luckily no sign of water inside the car, looks like I have gotten away with it.

Ahhh Chris but you have not solved the blocked pleum as it need to be rodded to get the muck out of the plenum tube if it pours downs agin which it will no doubt it will start to fill up again rod tomorrow as soon as you can be on the safe side ;)

Check weekly please
 

Well it is that time of year when we need to check the plenums at least once a week rain wind then sunny spells all amounts to blocked plenums due to the dust and rain mixing making sludge in the plenum chamber, so please check the weekend if you have a minute which is all it takes if you have the spyhole mod cheers Arctic.;)

Funny how some seem to get blocked and some don’t, isn’t it? My ECM was water damaged, so obviously had been flooded in the past – yet, in the 3 years I’ve owned it, the chamber’s remained bone dry, and no debris in it.

Cleaned it all out yesterday, I'm guessing it had never been done before, very clogged up, but all good now :) will get myself some of those guards soon.

get some gutter netting from pound shop or aldi and make some only cost a couple of Quid the most ;)
http://i46.tinypic.com/34790nd.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/j0lgeb.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/34npppf.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/msd99z.jpg

Flooded Plenums
 

Hi Members
Just an heads up keep an eye on those plenums with these down pours after the hot dry weather as lots of debris & dust may have made its way down into the plenum chamber combime the both with water and you get mud and that could be blocking the tube it only take a couple of minutes to check if you have the spy hole mods, happy rodding :D

Yes.....but.....
 

OK, checked and it was thoroughly gunged! Now kicking myself for not doing this when I changed the pollen filter, the new one is now sporting a nice "tide mark".
Anyhow, I looked at doing the spyhole mod, but the lower ECU loom on my car sits neatly right smack on top of the plenum drain, so it's not even visible from above without pulling the ECU, let alone accessible. Of course it's "hardened" like that over the years and ain't changing its ways now....:mad:

Guess I'm stuck with wipers off et. all. and cursing the fool who thought those wiper mountings were a good idea (6 goes to get the N/S one "just so" today).

Tim
If you lift the ECU off it's brackets the wire can be pashed back a little and should stay where up bend it a little giving you access to the plenum tube in the future through the spy hold mod i have done a few which had the wiring loom crossing over the tube, good luck Arctic ;)

Just to echo what's been said before...

I recently bought a 75 CDT with no service history. Got the car home, checked the plenum and there was 1/2" of water there. It took about 15 minutes to grind all of the composted **** out of the drain with a long screwdriver and then a pipe spring.

Always worth checking this out.

Took the grill off, but cant get any further because I cant seem to find my driver to get the screws out. But just a question, I checked my yellow tank (radiator one), and nothing was in there...yet I went to the garage 2 weeks ago and they fixed my coolant pipes leaks and added anti freeze too for 12 pounds..but it looked empty in the container???

And also, I went to fill my windscreen washer up because it was empty and I've dropped the freakin cap down the car and I cant seem to see it under the car. Is this dangerous without a cap? And also, I went to lock my car with central locking and it beeped (I know why it does this), but all the doors were closed and the bonnet was down....why is it telling me something is opened? Is it because theres no windscreen washer cap on?

To be honest, it does look pretty empty on the expansion tank, at the correct level.

Mine was like this, and was pointed out by Arctic to be too high ;):

http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9bc8da8c.jpg

But it should be like this

http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8f1c11d3.jpg

Not a brilliant picture, but it is sat just on the "max" mark.

Checked two members cars within two days and both have had at least 4" of water in the plenums, and have just about been saved from giving the ECU a good bath so do not delay in this weather check and check regular Arctic ;)

I serviced mine yesterday and changed the cabin filter, mine was bone dry with a few loose dead leafs in the bottom that I removed and checked the drain hole with a rod. :}

hi thanks for this thread, i hope it has sorted my problem, as i think water was getting into ecu and giving much head scratching:xmas-smiley-018:

It’s a funny one, this. I’ve had my car for 3½ years now, and never had a drop of water in the plenum.

At some stage before I owned it, it's been well flooded – the corrosion inside the ECM went up several inches, as did the water mark on the pollen filter.

But, because I had to rip my rusty ECM out and get the sainted Marinabrian to replace it, I do check the old plenum from time to time, and it's always bone dry.

And I live in the country, surrounded by clouds of leaves, insects, bird feathers etc… they just never seem to get in and block it…

Treat your car to one of these kits for Xmas (and for the rest of it's life :smilie_re:

And stop the debris getting down there in the first place


http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ad.php?t=68328

hi artic, my plenums were blocked,cleared now and modified, do you think this is what was courseing sometimes not starting even with good charge in battery and plenty of fuel, ???:icon_redface:

64 million dollar question, how is it now that you have cleared the plenums,? as poor starting can be few reasons really just to say it was the ECu maybe getting wet would be a wrong diagnosis on it's own,
faulty injector, cam sensor, crank sensor, ITP, UBP, etc but as I say how is it now ? :xmas-smiley-018:

hi again, the car always starts very well, but what it is doing now is it starts fine then as i move off it just cuts out and no electrics work and noticed the oil and battery lights are on dimley even when key removed, if i press the key to unlock and lock while the battery disconnected, when connected again the alarm sounds, when switched off all is fine and it will start but when try to move off again goes about ten yards and does it again, ???

hi jules all checked and ok had diognostic done and says cant find a fault, ???

What sort of diagnostic & what Voltage was the ALT pushing out?

Subscribed for future use - brilliant thread - thanks

had new alt fitted 2 months ago, and dont know what diagnostic was done at garage, but he said alt was putting out what it should, according to the spec of car, but still wont run for long and just stops with just oil and batt light on dim and sometimes pulsate dimmly

That seems like the battery is going flat, maybe due to no charge from the alternator...

I would suggest temporarily installing a volt meter, so you can keep an eye on the voltage as you drive.

Good advice from Harry there.
There's a voltmeter built into your dash board!!!

OBD dash dignsotics TEST NO 9
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...38&postcount=1


Sounds like a juicy fault I would like to get my hands on.:xmas-smiley-019:

Good old fashioned Volts and Ameters tracing wires and pins..............just because a Garage says there were no faults displayed on his screen doesn't mean all is well.
Even T4 won't detect a lot of wiring faults.

thanks for that but all has been tested as ok, new battery check and full charge,, alt working as it should, only runs for a few mins so not worth putting a meter on it

im afraid being on a pension now at 71, i have spent what savings i had on battery and alt,, so until i can save a bit more she will have to sit there, such a shame after 6years of good reliable service :icon_cry:

I Jim.
As it may not be down to the plenums being flooded I would start another thread with regards to your fault, and perhaps the one of the mods could mover the posts you have received over to it, then we can track how your car is performing and what you have or have not checked through the great advice being given by the members, just a suggestion cheers Arctic. :xmas-smiley-018:

No one is suggesting your spending more money, but rather that you do some basic diagnostics on the work you have had done.

check regular
 

May I suggest with all the bad weather high winds and driving rain, also with the bad frosty weather we are about to be going into over the next few months that we all check our plenums regular.

Once week will not take up to much time if you follow the spyhole mod, I always add the inspection to my weekly checking of all fluids and tyres for wear and pressure.

Also lets stay safe out there over the festive season again bad weather, fallen trees and the like and the problem of drunk drivers. cheers Arctic

Spyhole Mod Continued At Post 21 Click the Link
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...1&postcount=21

As per Steve's post, thread has been stuck and title amended to reflect the importance of this issue :icon_lol:

I have just done this on jane connie.

I was just wondering; do both of the plenums near the bonnet hinges have the same shape?
The on my driversside (passenger in UK) seems to go straight down, the one on the passengerside (driversside in UK) almost seems like it makes a bend.
I kinda thought both where just straight down....

Sounds like the rubber tube has not been seated correctly.
Should go straight down passing through 2 layers of metal

My plenum drain was blocked under the brake servo. Water was collecting in the drivers side in the plenum, could this cause any water leaks to get in to the car?

Yes if its collecting in the driver side plenum then that must be blocked to or at the very least not letting the water get away quick enough, it can the flow into the pollen filter and get through.

Check this out and cut at 45 degree angle
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ad.php?t=84865

Thank you I will look at cutting the end of it at an angle, but I think this has already been done. Can water get in through to the driver footwell from blocked plenum?

Well yes because it can build up then flow into the internal fan and down into the foot well take a look at the photo's below this will give you an insight to what may happen.

Note in the first pic top right you will see the grey sponge that is the back of the pollen filter box area, that you see in the other pics, so once the plenum tube is blocked it would not take long for the to be breached in my opinion, and sometimes even if you think the plenums look clear by looking through from the driver side with a torch that as been suggested, if the tube is blocked at the outlet part with mud etc then it will soon mount up if like now we have a deluge of rain Arctic

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...1&d=1388978909

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...2&d=1388978928

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...3&d=1388978954

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...4&d=1388978996

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...5&d=1388979025

Thank you Steve this makes sense now seeing the photos.

You've got me worried now. I. check clean or rod the passenger plenum tube out weekly but I never touch the drivers side one as its not very accessible. Will this cause flooding problems in the plenum chamber or will the water simple drain through the passenger tube instead.
John

Hi Johnny
As long as the passenger side is free of rubbish and as good outlet ie the flaps been cut of at an angle 45 degrees then in my opinion all should be ok, but merely looking into the plenum chamber from the drivers side with a torch and seeing it is clear, will not be enough what if the tube as only just blocked up and it pours down all night and for a few days, this is why it is best to do the spy hole mod, then check at least once a week if not more in really bad weather only takes 5 minutes.

Afternoon chaps
Get yourselves some netting or filter sponge and stop the debris getting into the bulkhead in the first place.........then it's just yearly checks from then on.
Every 3 months I pour a bucket of water over the driver's side windscreen area and watch it drain from 4 places underneath ! Or 3 places for later cars with only 3 drains
(rear of both arch liners and right and left sides of the rear edge of the undertray)

Delux solution
Why worry every week when you can fit and forget one of these.:smilie_re:
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ad.php?t=68328

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_CloltyGrcac/TI...0/P1040656.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_CloltyGrcac/TI...4/P1040613.JPG

Thankyou both for putting my mind at rest. I've done the spyhole mod a few weeks back and as you say, it takes 2 mins to check to plenum drain making it so much less hasel of a job. . The previous owner has cut the tube as when I peer down the spyhole I can see straight through the drain tube at the road below. Next mod will be Jules filter to stop all the rubbish getting there in the first place
Many thanks
John

My plenum was clear under the ecu but still found water was pooling up on the drivers side as the drain under the servo was blocked. Maybe the car was parked at a slight angle but the water drains away from the plenum a lot better now that I have cleared the one under the brake servo. I would recommend doing it, I managed to do it from above.

Hi Ian.
now with added video jusy to show once the spy hole mod is in place how quick you can check the plenum and rod it, even more so with the bad weather we are having at the moment, Arctic ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCTc1...wzWShpKlaa5H9g

Hi buddy, thanks for the detailed advice and illustrations....fantastic for a an inexperienced DIY mechanic like me. Looking at the unblocking rod you used to push the build up of leaf litter twigs etc, it seems to me if the rod will push right through to the floor, is it a practical idea to try and get access from below with a hooked and thinner wire to pull any blockage down?
Thanks again and as soon as this rain stops I'll get right to it.
Rgds Charlie
Best wishes for 2014

Yes easy to cut the bottom of both lower plenum tubes off from below.
Even easier on a ramp.

A job we do do on every 75 we MOT together with greasing all the metal brake pipes

Am so glad I checked my plennums today! Water a third of the way up the pollen filter and plennum drain blocked. Rodded it and the passenger side one too with a piece of garden cane. Both blocked. Have now fitted Jules' plennum mod. Just in time for a heavy shower. Thank God I did it today!

Saved your ecu but probably have water under your carpet

i checked and no water has got into the cabin as far as i can tell. footwells are bone dry.

so glad i did it this morning as is threw it down all afternoon.

Did you lift up the carpets and check underneath, the underlay

yep. double checked again today while fitting some new mats.

no water got in.

Good news your lucky

2
 

hi is there one each side or only n/s / thanks

Just done mine again, as it was a nice day.. while looking though the old paper work supplied when we got the car., found a slip for a new ECU cost £1007.00 guullppp, inculding sort things out....
Found dry leaves in mine.... hopefully all ok
Paul

Early cars had 4 drains. one in each side at the bottom, one at each side on a step below the bonnet hinge. Later cars had the drivers side one on the step omitted. Some early cars had a low partition between the two sides, so it was essential to ensure both drains worked well. Later ones could at least drain via one of the two, but obviously not good relying on one being clear.

Well that was disaster everted!!
Just checked the plenum there on my Tourer. Which I have had for 2 weeks.
Removed the scuttle panel as shown and had a look.
Sure enough there was at least an inch of water in there!! Rodded the hole and it is now running clear!
Many thanks for posting your thread. Could have been a very costly mistake! :duh:

Hi Graeme.
Welcome and excellent the forum is already starting to be your best friend well worth joining cheers Arctic;)

Never assume because the water is below the ECU, that it has never got to the ECU. Under heavy rainfall a restricted drain might well allow it to rise much higher. If in any doubt, check the ECU itself for signs of water.

The priority job on any 75 is to check those drains as soon as you get it.

well said. i checked my plennums the week after getting my ZT and the water was an inch up the pollen filter.

however, when replacing the pollen filter on sunday i realised the ECU is housed in a plastic box that protects it from the outside world. its not water tight by any means.

its not going to protect it from everything, especially if you have a lot of water in there sloshing around in the plennum void but if you get to the blocked plennum quickly enough like i did you should be ok.

Well, just rodded my own 75 that I have had for a week now. Just as well I did really, as there was a shoal of fish living happily in the plenum chamber. They must have been feeding on all the **** from the pollen filter which looks like it hasn't been changed for several hundred years at least!

Thanks for the advice gents.

Andy

ty for this iv heard a lot of horror stories regarding this problem, and was not sure how to go about doing it, the pics were brill and i be checking mine this weekend this is my first rover and im doing bits to it has i go along im glad ive joined on here you all really helpful many thanks again for this:}

Thanks for this thread, saved me what I am sure could have turned out a ton of money.

Hi Ian
Glad to see it as helped I too drained a plenum today for a member whom as only had the car for two weeks, quite full ;) cheers Arctic:}

Many thanks
 

Bought my first 75 on Monday and checked the plenum this morning. Blocked and storing water. Looked like only a cm of water but lots gushed out after unblocking the drain.
Glad I checked :D

Different idea
 

Been meaning to post this idea for a long time. When I first read about the Plenum problems 1.5 years back I had the idea of something like a permeable stone that would be inserted tightly into the rubber and would need to protrude at least a few centimetres above the rubber. I'm thinking either something like a straight pipe shape or a dome shape. That way the muck could still gather around the bottom but the water would drain from above down the hole. You would want it removable so the muck could occasionally be removed.

Does this sound feasible? Any suggestions on what could be used?

No!

The amount of water shipped in during a carwash or a heavy storm would overwhelm the ability of the permeable stone to let it drain away. :getmecoat:

Along the same lines someone has in the past thought of a raised cylinder of mesh though to act as you have suggested. :D

That would work better than the standard set up. ;)

I regularly check passager side plenum, but when I have the car on the ramps when doing a service I always clean the drivers side, still surprised how much muck/water dribbles out.

Will there be a drain under the brake servo on a 2003 connie?

Yes, there is!

Excellent was hoping there would be, good to have a extra drain and I found a way to rod them from above

Simon cut the tube at a 45 degree angle past the flaps and you will have no trouble with it in the future unless you get a big bung of mud and leaves block it which I doubt. ;)

If you imagine the ECU plastic cover, as an inverted bucket, you will not be far out. It does protect it from water from above, but will not help with water from below rising due to a blocked or restricted drain.

If you have even the slightest doubt about whether your ECU might have suffered a ducking, then it is worth making sure....

Disconnect the battery, remove and unplug the ECU, then open up its case and check the PCB for signs of ingress. If it shows signs, then it is worth cleaning up the PCB with isopropyl, brushing gently with a soft brush, then drying out thoroughly.

The problem is that water can get in the housing without much difficulty, but once in it is trapped and will simply recirculate inside the case - which is really bad news for electronics.

Guys
If you stop the debris going down the drivers bonnet hinge area in the first place and cut the ends off the tubes, you can stop worrying and only yearly checks will be necessary when the pollen filter is changed!!

All info here

Plenum Shield
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ad.php?t=68328

Or whole shop here
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...splay.php?f=74

Fit and forget that's what we like!

As the thread is so clearly marked as important, I as a new owner had a read and then while working around some other faults had a look see and there was water in there all right! This forum and its members have again saved me a nightmare!

I will need to revisit this with some of the ingenious preventative ideas on here but at least for now I have drained it. I had nothing to hand that I could think of to unblock the drain hole, then had a brain wave and used my dip stick, worked a treat. cleaned it thoroughly before an after but instant sunami down the drive.

Cheers guys.

Yep I've used the dipstick or a wiper blade when seeing broken down 75's at the roadside to clear drains.
Works a treat if you have no tools to hand!!!!

As does a garden cane.

chaselpaso
 

What a brilliant video to put together to help people. well done.

I replaced my 75 n/a petrol for a diesel last month and one of the first things I did was check the plenums...water was just touching the bottom edge ECU housing.. Garden can and alls well ..

George, just got your PM on the dark side, BigRuss would be your closest man to sort out your 999999 IPK fault, and he can send you on your way with a lot more grunt into the bargain ;)

Brian :D

thanks Arctic for the advice ,all three tubes rodded and cleared also have invested in Jules plenum guard ..not sure if i have fitted the right way though ,