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New hydramount sloshes like a coconut - correct?
It's all in the title really.
I have bought a new diesel hydramount which, when shaken gently, sounds like a 3/4 full coconut. For those who have experience in shaking these things, does that sound right? Fanx. a |
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Send it back either for an exchange or refund, and buy one from a reputable seller ;) Brian :D |
Thanks for confirming that. It didn't seem right to me.
It is fresh from DMGRS - Perhaps just an odd duff one that sods law sent in my direction. I will drop them a line. Cheers Brian. In fact 3/4 full was optimistic - I'd pessimistically say it was half empty! |
"Hello Alan,
Don't worry - this is normal, and the original mount fitted to my MG ZT did the same when removed (this also hadn't leaked). " Anyone? |
The original diesel hydramount is filled with a very viscous silicone ;)
In addition the shore hardness of the rubber in diesel models is different to the petrol version. I have the original used mount removed from my ZT, and a new genuine KKB101923 hydramount, and neither slosh when shaken. I hope this clarifies a little Brian :D |
Clarifies?
Crikey no! That muddies the water completely! Thanks!:eek: Seriously - Appreciate the answer Brian. I don't know anything about these items and I'd like to have another to compare it with. Instinct tells me that it shouldn't go 'glug' This part No. is KKB101914 |
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I bought an original for my CDT off a forum member the other month ready for Jules to fit at some stage and its as solid as a rock. Nothing sloshing about. **Edit** Actually after re reading my correspondence with the selling forum member it turns out that the not required one that he sent me was actually originally from DGMRS. As mentioned solid as a rock, no sloshing. Maybe they have a sloshing or non sloshing option on their website. |
ive done a few these engine mounts, one being from Dmgr and non of them sloshed around.
As brian says, should feel solid as a rock. |
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No sign of anything leaking out. https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...36031a897e.jpg https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...360320c884.jpg |
All of ours have always done this - including those sourced from XPart.
I'm guessing a change must have happened at some point if an original doesn't do it - however the mount on my ZT-T CDTi (which I believe was original) also makes the sloshing noise. No excess vibration in the cabin etc :) |
Mine seems quite flexible too.
Looking at the pic below, if I hold the thread on the right steady in one hand, I can tilt the other thread off axis very easily with the other hand. Should they be that flexible? The engine is going to put a lot more force on it than I can. https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...36031a897e.jpg Here's what the insides look like - https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/s...d.php?t=257034 |
There's some weird stuff on youTube
Here's me shaking my hydramount https://youtu.be/mVLCN4eg7sI Do NOT get aroused by it! a |
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Video comes up as "private" and can't be viewed. Cliff |
Force of habit Cliff. Shaking it in private!
Ahh - let me see what I can do to share it . . . . . . try now. I won't spoil the plot by telling you the ending. |
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I fitted a new mount just this week and there was no 'sloshing' from the new one.
The only way I could move the top stud out of line to the bottom stud was if I put it in a thread clamp in the vice. Could not be moved by hand. In fact the one I took off was just as stiff :eek:, but did slosh. I don't think there should be any air inside, air is far more compressible than the liquid, hence more easily compressed, less stiff:getmecoat: |
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Re the sloshing, don't know it it's any help, but when I had my KV6 rebuilt a few weeks back, the hydramount was taken out to aid some painting, and it made no sloshing sound at all. Cliff |
Oh!
The plot thickens. I can push mine (hydramount, thanks) a few degree off line by hand. May appear in the sequel movie. Anyone fitted a sloshy one and been satisfied with the result? a |
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Here's a question for anyone: If there is an air gap inside, what purpose does the liquid server? . |
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Here's what I'm doing to test the axis tilt (or lack of it). Grab the LH thread (as pic below) in left hand and hold it steady. Press thumb of right hand on curved rubber section on the RH side and use the other four fingers to lever the RH thread. Using this method I can push mine a good 3/4" off axis, measured at outer end of RH thread. That's a very big difference to Stephen's mount, which needs a vice to be able to move it at all. https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...360320c884.jpg It does seem logical that the more air that's trapped inside the more easily it will twist off axis. Quote:
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Here is the one I threw away, only to get it out of the bin, only for a few mins honest.
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/...f1b35c0e04.jpg That is as far as I could push the top stud over, and that's the fubar'd one |
That's a handy plate in your vice - I must make one.
I can't stretch mine that far but then I don't know how tough your thumb is! |
Made that plate some time in the 70's when I was an apprentice.
That thumb, what you can't see is my hand shaking as I was pushing as had as I could. Although if I had tried that when that plate was new I'm sure I could have pushed it over more :duh:. Why did my wife see the 'c r a p' on the bench, but you only saw the plate:shrug: This is where the rubber has split, from the same photo as above https://serving.photos.photobox.com/...6b6f19956b.jpg . |
Assuming the fluid inside is some kind of oil to allow for damping of the engine, then it would be reasonable.to.assume that once the weight of the engine is applied, the sloshing would decrease. The amount of fluid also it would.contain, along with the material it is made from, I imagine would be relative to the engine that it is designed for.
So with the above in mind, again 'assuming' it to be fit for purpose, could it be that it was designed for a heavier engine (more compression, less space for fluid, therefore, unladen, more sloshing?).. Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk |
@sln8458 - Tell yer wife all I see is useful stuff on your bench! 2nd row of holes - Whitworth or UNC?
@clf - Glycol filled as I understand it but I don't know much about them. If it has 2 chambers in it then it could act like a shock absorber as it squishes about, I guess. Not sure about Air/ glycol - air would compress and add a bit of bounce. Just guessing really. a |
This from Steve1966, one of the Rover development engineers who worked on engine mounts, explains how the glycol aids the damping effect, and I would have thought any air in the chambers will negate the resonance effect of the glycol, and the result of his finger test. :}
The fluid is not in the main rubber sections that take the weight of thegearbox. It is around the periphery of the bush. If you press the soft rubber beneath the insert where the bolt goes with your finger you will notice the rubber at the top of the bush puff out a little. The fluid goes into resonance when it is excited by the small displacement over bumps in the road (usually tuned to be around 12 hz). It is this resonance that creates the damping. |
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My garage is FULL of useful stuff, that's why the car is on the drive:eek: There is the start of a 3rd row of holes, sorry but they are ALL metric in that plate, which was fortunate as the studs are M12:p: SteveN |
I have fitted a few of the hydro mounts & have never heard any sloshing sounds from them failed or new, the worst i seen was the one below V6 had leaked a rusty colour substance from it due to failing over time.
https://i.imgur.com/78zt2izl.jpg1 I would presume to water intake https://i.imgur.com/rSbqFMjl.jpg2 https://i.imgur.com/aaXisO9l.jpg3 This diesel one was changed due to the owner noticing a little degradation in the rubber but no knocking. https://i.imgur.com/91KJ356l.jpg4 https://i.imgur.com/GBGudt5l.jpg5 I was informed that the car felt a lot better to drive after the change over. https://i.imgur.com/0byTwZbl.jpg6 This is the hydro mount from that car above, and it still seems fine to me, no sloshing sounds come from it. https://i.imgur.com/8QKVP2Rl.jpg7 Also the thread can not be pushed over to 3/4 either way. https://i.imgur.com/Hs7xULsl.jpg8 Lets remember that most these hydro mounts being purchased as OEM for (SAIC Motor) will not be for the diesel engine but for the petrol engines Shaking Stevens. https://youtu.be/cxe-5oaDdfQ Diesel https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID001744 https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-KKB101923 1800 petrol engine. https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-KKB101903 V6 petrol engines https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-KKB101914 |
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Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk |
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I drained both a used diesel one, and one from a V6, and measured the viscosity in Redwood seconds (can't lay my hands on the figures at the moment) however fluid recovered from the diesel one was considerably more viscous than that of the petrol at 21 degrees C The top and bottom of the matter is simple, if an item is cheap, even if it looks the part, this doesn't ensure that it's fit for purpose. The V6 mount although dimensionally identical to the diesel one, the one which I fitted prior to the purchase of a genuine Rover diesel mount from XPart, transmitted huge amounts of vibration in comparison to the correct part that was removed. In the case of all of the mounts, two were original factory fit, none of which were Chinese manufacture, none made a sloshing noise when shaken. I'm fairly certain that if there were air present inside the unit, this would be detrimental to the operation, air being compressible, and fluid not so, the damping action of the mount being compromised as a result. Personally speaking I wouldn't fit the mount as supplied, instead I would source one from XPart, and know that at least the supplier had been subject to some form of objective scrutiny ;) Brian :D |
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I have to find my direct from china (facom) mount, I bought it to keep in the shed for when I need it, and it was something like $25. Supposed to have been for a diesel. EDIT: thanks to lockdown I cannot find it. 4 large boxes of spares, all tidied at the beginning of lockdown, cannot get to one of the boxes right now (I hope it is in that one). Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk |
Hi Arctic.
Appreciate your input on this (and your quality photos) DMGRS are still insisting the part is right and all their others go glug. I was hoping they might join in this discussion. Alan (I see a few more posts on the thread since I opened this page to reply, so the post is a little out of sync. Thanks everyone for taking the time to write & share your experience) |
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Sunday Morning...
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Had one fitted to my diesel ZTT last year, ordered from and supplied by X part
When it arrived the only marking on it was "made in China" so not sure how long it will last.. That said there was certainly no sloshing noise from it. |
just been into my garage to check out a Hydromount which I removed from an old diesel 75 and on the bottom was stamped J 3140.
I have given it a good shake and there is NO sloshing sounds whatsoever..And I find it impossible to move/bend the rubber:shrug: |
I checked out a mount that I had stored in the garage, received from DMGRS part no KKB101914, and it too “sloshes”.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Brian :D |
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Yes, DMGRS advertises one engine mount for both the diesel and V6. Mobile Phone coverage not great here. Perhaps I’ll catch up with you tomorrow re other question.👍 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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DMGRS did say that the load ratings on the V6 & the diesel are close enough together to combine the two. I'd seen the numbers somewhere, forget now, but they seem close to one another to my untrained eye that I would accept the reason. I just wish it wouldn't glug. |
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The definitive answer.
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I got out the College car mount yesterday and gave it a really good shake, my wrists made more noise than the mount as it made no sound at all, no sloshing or even a hint of fluid moving around. I then hung it upside down till this morning to give the fluid a chance to sink to the top of the mount, I've given it a good shake again and guess what? Nothing, not a peep. There's isn't a more authentic mount than this one and it makes no noise at all, I also have a very good used one and that's also silent. The other part of my test was the push test to see if I could move it off centre at the tip, I got it to move about 1/4 inch, even with my strength.
It leads to the conclusion that any mounts that make a sloshing noise are just tat and not fit for use, they might do a job but not THE job they're intended for. I wouldn't buy one that sounds like a garden water feature in use. The last part is....before anyone asks....No! |
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It might be a shame to not have the new old stock parts comparison any longer, but boy the car will be nice once finished :drool4: Brian :D |
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Just to add a little more to this. I consider the internals of these mounts as a 'sealed' hydraulic system, 'loosely' similar to the braking system of the car. Do you want air in the braking system hydraulics? . |
Kkb103360
If and when i need one on my R40 diesel Auto it will most likely be an FL1 as they fit our cars with a tiny modification, cutting the thread down a bit.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RH-Engine...0/370491145997 |
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I was aware of using the freelander version and cutting down the thread. Only thought is - who is making these now? One ebay ref for the same search, from a Landy supplier says; Equivalent to Land Rover KKB103360 (used for reference only) Applicable to the following : Freelander 1 – All model years - Td4 Diesel Automatic Freelander 1 – All model years - V6 Petrol https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RH-Engine...-/370491145997 So it looks as though that part has been combined for the V6/ TD Freelander also:shrug: |
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Steve, that link does not work ? though I have found the item 370491145997 SteveN |
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Not according to one of the Rover develpoment engineers: The original Rover hydramounts fitted were essentially the same dimensionally but the rubber hardness was different for the 3 engine types due to the differing engine weight which needed to be supported. The 1.8 (blue paint spot) was 115 N/mm The V6 (green spot) was 130 N/mm The diesel (yellow spot) was 160 N/mm These rates were designed to give approximately 8mm deflection due to the weight of the engine. So, you could fit stiffer mounts to the lighter versions but I wouldn't fit either of the petrol mounts to a diesel as they will be less durable and may sink so low that they sit on the internal snubber increasing noise and vibration. The stiffer mounts will have noise/refinement penalties on the lighter engines but they will work. |
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30N difference means that, if it deflects 8mm on a 160N/mm it will probably be nearer 10mm on 130 (citation required) which seems small for a static load but probably more significant when its bouncing about in use. Quote:
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Interesting...
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I wouldn't worry too much Mike - the quote was taken from this thread, and reading further down there is a retraction re the colour coding. :}
https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/s...d.php?t=279297 |
I did some searching today and found these being sold via a well know seller of Rover MG products, so i presume they are the correct hydro mounts for the diesel. PS never presume anything.
Buyer beware these slosh. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROVER-75-...97.m4902.l9144 PS questions sent to Nick to find out what he as to say about the above mount? OK so apparently these slosh too and are not old /new stock, i thought with the RoverMG box in the back ground they would have been the genuine item as in before the Chinese started doing them. Reply from ECP below. (We only sell one type for both petrol and diesel that does have the sloshing sound but they are not Rover boxed ones. The only Rover boxed ones come from X-Part but we don't buy them as the sell out would be £139 and unfortunately the vast majority would not buy them If anyone wants a Rover boxed version from X-Part I'm happy to buy one and sell at a trade price if they do. When we only supplied the dearer ones a few years ago I don't remember if they made any noise or not i'm afraid. Regards Nick) |
Well quite simply look at the price difference:
Rimmer brothers and other Xpart outlets charge £140 for a genuine mount. DMGRS charge £50. Why so cheap if it’s a genuine part? I have never known an engine hydro mount on ANY car make a sloshing sound. |
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