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Old 23rd June 2022, 12:41   #181
smudge.g
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Originally Posted by Mike Noc View Post
I wonder if all these wind turbines will affect the climate at all? We are taking more and more energy out of the wind - hope it doesn't lead to future climate changes we don't want.
We have already seen wind farms generating their own weather (with showers developing over the farms but not elsewhere) so who knows what the larger scale impact would be, as said above, as these farms will only grow in size.
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Old 24th June 2022, 08:17   #182
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Dont think it is doom mongering asking the questions as to how this brave new zero emissions world is actually going to function and affect everyone.
It is fine having all these “deep green” philosophies which would be great if they actually had real workable solutions attached to their ideals instead “it will all work out some how”
I have still yet to here a realistic solution to storing a base load power supply
from solar or wind during peak load times (6pm-8pm) when there is no sun
and no wind. A battery storage facility would take up a massive amount of space
and would not be financially viable.
There will have to be gas or coal fired power to some degree or another for some time yet otherwise lights will go out!
So in reality the “deep greens” are big on ideas but short on reality.
Unfortunately they have to contend with the reality of the laws of physics- or do they ? All sounds warm and fuzzy until you actually examine the reality!!
As with asbestos, the perfect building material; plastics that take centuries to break down; lead as an anti-knock additive; thalidomide, a great solution to morning sickness; myxomatosis to control the rabbit population. History is littered with these good ideas which actually destroy our environment.

With electric cars there is still the unsolved problem of where most of the rare metals are mined and the attendant ecological damage, compounded by the problem of end of life waste. We have the hazard of the inherent instability of the batteries and due to the weight of the cars, increased damaging particles from tyres.

It is plain that sometimes the solutions are a worse remedy than envisaged.
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Old 24th June 2022, 12:08   #183
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We have already seen wind farms generating their own weather (with showers developing over the farms but not elsewhere) so who knows what the larger scale impact would be, as said above, as these farms will only grow in size.
The amount of energy wind turbines 'remove' from the atmosphere is miniscule compared to the energy potential in the atmosphere. Far less likely to affect the climate then pumping tonnes of CO2 and other gasses into it!

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As with asbestos, the perfect building material; plastics that take centuries to break down; lead as an anti-knock additive; thalidomide, a great solution to morning sickness; myxomatosis to control the rabbit population. History is littered with these good ideas which actually destroy our environment.

With electric cars there is still the unsolved problem of where most of the rare metals are mined and the attendant ecological damage, compounded by the problem of end of life waste. We have the hazard of the inherent instability of the batteries and due to the weight of the cars, increased damaging particles from tyres.

It is plain that sometimes the solutions are a worse remedy than envisaged.
"inherent instability of the batteries" as opposed to the total stability of petrol?

As for tyre wear this has been shown to be almost negligible and in our case the front tyres on our MG did 25,000 miles and still had 3mm left which given my style of driving and the rural roads round here is really good and much better then my Mercedes diesel which 'ate' a set of rears every 7-10k You also have to bear in mind that the brakes on an EV generate almost no particulates compared to an ICE car as they're hardly used.
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Old 24th June 2022, 19:18   #184
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The amount of energy wind turbines 'remove' from the atmosphere is miniscule compared to the energy potential in the atmosphere. Far less likely to affect the climate then pumping tonnes of CO2 and other gasses into it!



"inherent instability of the batteries" as opposed to the total stability of petrol?

As for tyre wear this has been shown to be almost negligible and in our case the front tyres on our MG did 25,000 miles and still had 3mm left which given my style of driving and the rural roads round here is really good and much better then my Mercedes diesel which 'ate' a set of rears every 7-10k You also have to bear in mind that the brakes on an EV generate almost no particulates compared to an ICE car as they're hardly used.
I don't know of any spontaneous combustion of diesel or petrol, whereas I have heard of many instances of car and bus batteries spontaneously igniting and exploding. It is also the case that the batteries are difficult and dangerous to recycle, hence the high proportion that end up in landfill.

I am rather puzzled by your anecdotal tyre evidence which goes against research? Furthermore, why compare rear tyres on a Mercedes and front tyres on your EV? Such misuse of DATA is not helpful. The DATA used should really be obtained from various model options of the same marque. For example, the Renault Megane. You will also find that most larger vehicles also use very little "conventional" braking and have done for many decades, instead using electric or hydraulic retarders and exhaust brakes.

You don't address the ecological effects of producing and disposing of batteries or the high replacement costs and you don't address the proven depreciation downsides of EVs. I do recognise however that all cars, whether ICE, Hybrid or EV 2nd hand prices are artificially artificially high at the moment, the effect of which is likely to result in values crashing when the situation normalises.

The other problem is the hazards caused by "all eggs in one basket". The vital rare metals necessary for the batteries are mainly mined in very few places, Chile, Argentina and Bolivia for example. None of these are politically stable and I think Russia has proved that such a situation is at best unwise and probably foolhardy.

We don't yet have perfect alternatives but I think it incumbent upon buyers to research beyond the advertising and special interest hype.

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Old 24th June 2022, 19:39   #185
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I'm all for saving the planet but until they eliminate the range limitation I have no interest in an EV. I want to fill with fuel and go again not be stuck while the batteries recharge or develop battery paranoia trying to plan a route by charging locations.
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Old 25th June 2022, 17:06   #186
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As petrol & diesel vehicle numbers drop, one day it will get to a point where petrols stations become uneconomic, start to close and get further apart.
Then it will be us ICE owners that get range anxiety.
Not yet though :¬)
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Old 25th June 2022, 17:20   #187
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It feels like I keep on saying the same things lol.
If an electric car doesn't fit in with what you intend to use it for then don't buy one.
If it does then consider one if you can afford it.
If a diesel car doesn't fit in with what you intend to use it for then don't buy one.
If it does then consider one if you can afford it .
If a petrol car doesn't fit in with what you intend to use it for then don't buy one.
If it does then consider one if you can afford it.
If a Hybrid (either plug in or self charge) doesn't fit in with what you intend to use it for then don't buy one.
If it does then consider one if you can afford it.

An electric car fits for my wife's commute to work and saves us a fortune on petrol which more than offsets the purchase cost.
It would not suit me as a company car so instead I have a hybrid.

Weekend car, my ZT will shortly be SORN and I will have the TF up until I get one of the splendid new MG EV roadsters which are due out in a couple of years
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Old 25th June 2022, 18:58   #188
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I hope you appreciate the fact that you are gaining from everyone running a diesel/petrol vehicle, for the cheap cost’s at the moment , for EV costs. No tax. Excellent, for the moment. But when it comes in , people will be complaining about the extra charges, like vehicle excise duty. Make the most of it lads. It will be along soon.Will I ever bother to have an electric car? Not on your Nellie.
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Old 25th June 2022, 23:46   #189
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I hope you appreciate the fact that you are gaining from everyone running a diesel/petrol vehicle, for the cheap cost’s at the moment , for EV costs. No tax. Excellent, for the moment. But when it comes in , people will be complaining about the extra charges, like vehicle excise duty. Make the most of it lads. It will be along soon.Will I ever bother to have an electric car? Not on your Nellie.
And just wait until they introduce "Electricity Tax" to help fund more power stations, which will be needed because the infrastructure as it stands won't be able to cope with the increased demand......
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Old 26th June 2022, 11:20   #190
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And just wait until they introduce "Electricity Tax" to help fund more power stations, which will be needed because the infrastructure as it stands won't be able to cope with the increased demand......
Yep, already on the books here, slated to start taxing ev owners per kilometre traveled as of 2027.
So when will all this tax payer funded subsidising all these renewable projects stop?
When it does, our power bills will go up alot again to cover its inefficiency.
Somone has to pay for the new green deal- it will be us common folk!!
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