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Old 20th February 2024, 15:44   #71
SteveThackery
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Originally Posted by torque2me View Post
Once again Steve you are on a bandwagon with the Co2 being the culprit when it is only one issue in a complex set of strands. It will not be the cause of COPD and stances may change when or if a person contracts it. Costs the NHS (taxpayers) many million for medicants and it is for life. As everyone has to hold their hand up to some extent the government should bring in a simplified NoX/Co2 formula whereby everyone pays the same amount just as we did 30 years ago. Remember the vast majority of diesel cars/engines sit in a lower tax bracket due to fake emission tests, Co2 vehicles don't.
Kev
Once again on a bandwagon? Where else?

The evidence for global warming is overwhelming. Anyone who denies it is being unscientific and putting their head in the sand.

However, there are three elements which remain debatable, in my opinion:

1/ How much of it is anthropogenic

2/ What the effects will be on the ecosystem and on our lives

3/ How to mitigate it

My argument in previous posts assumes we accept the official story on CO2, because that won't change no matter what you and I might think. Any changes we might wish for will have to be in the context of anthropogenic CO2 causing global temperature rises.

I didn’t follow most of your post - your use of language exceeds my ability to understand it - so I'm not sure where we differ. Are you saying that global warming is not happening? Or not anthropogenic? You mentioned COPD, but nobody has ever claimed that COPD is caused by CO2. You must know that the VAST majority of cases of COPD are caused by smoking, not pollution. The evidence gathered over decades is overwhelming. There is evidence that it might be exacerbated by NOx, though. The effects of sub 2.5um particulates are barely understood because they are small enough to enter the bloodstream, but the consequences of that are still largely unknown.

I repeat my main point: if the government wants to reduce CO2 emissions, then the easiest way to achieve that is to tax its production; that is to tax fuel, because it is burning fuel that produces CO2. Whether that is the right thing to do is a separate debate.

In any case, we in the UK produce less than 2% of global CO2, so until America, Russia, India, Germany and Japan take CO2 reduction seriously, everything we do is just urinating into the wind.

In closing, you mention a "complex set of strands", which is true but pollution is a very well understood subject - maybe more so than you appreciate.
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Old 13th March 2024, 10:03   #72
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Tyre and brake pollution is becoming the major factor. Tyres and brakes cause 1850x more particulate pollution than exhausts, with EV's, due to their additional weight from the batteries, being far worse.
https://nypost.com/2024/03/05/busine...ronment-study/
https://twitter.com/i/status/1765445960325366217


I'm afraid I fundamentally disagree that anthropogenically produced CO2 is causing catastrophic global warming. Having studied the subject closely since 2009 I can confirm that it is complete pseudoscience. When a theory is unfalsifiable, when it cannot be questioned, when on every single metric there is evidence to disprove the theory, when zero funding is given to alternate theories, when those who study alternate theories are cancelled, silenced and sacked you know its a religion not science
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Old 13th March 2024, 11:30   #73
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:What is really happening is the same as in Russia. Control your mind and body with innuendo and half truths. I like the one that is coming to the top which is, stop eating meat, so there are less cows to fahrt in the field to pollute the air we breathe with methane. What a load of codswallop. As I have said before, the emissions from all the volcano’s that are erupting at any moment around the globe, cause more ‘pollution’ than all the cars put together. There are so many people now around in this country, and mostly in the Western Hemisphere, who believe everything they read . I wonder if they know something that none of the astronauts who have been on the moon have disproved, that it is made of cheese. Honestly.
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Old 13th March 2024, 11:51   #74
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Originally Posted by Brocky61 View Post
Tyre and brake pollution is becoming the major factor. Tyres and brakes cause 1850x more particulate pollution than exhausts, with EV's, due to their additional weight from the batteries, being far worse.
https://nypost.com/2024/03/05/busine...ronment-study/
https://twitter.com/i/status/1765445960325366217


I'm afraid I fundamentally disagree that anthropogenically produced CO2 is causing catastrophic global warming. Having studied the subject closely since 2009 I can confirm that it is complete pseudoscience. When a theory is unfalsifiable, when it cannot be questioned, when on every single metric there is evidence to disprove the theory, when zero funding is given to alternate theories, when those who study alternate theories are cancelled, silenced and sacked you know its a religion not science
Indeed.

97% of scientists agree with whoever is funding them.
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Old 13th March 2024, 12:00   #75
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Originally Posted by SteveThackery View Post
Once again on a bandwagon? Where else?
Left that in by mistake Steve, we all have bandwagons.
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The evidence for global warming is overwhelming. Anyone who denies it is being unscientific and putting their head in the sand.
Interesting that. Guess it all depends where in the world and what with measurements are taken. I believe our "certified" data is from 1906 onwards (might be 1901 but the overall message is the same). I guess by that that they mean with "calibrated" instruments. Documented readings and such can go back about 200 years but the reliability of the information is questionable. 200 years is just a drop in the ocean of time for this planet. The mini ice age and warming spells have their own discussion but once again no "calibrated" measurements are available.
Quote:
However, there are three elements which remain debatable, in my opinion:

1/ How much of it is anthropogenic

2/ What the effects will be on the ecosystem and on our lives

3/ How to mitigate it

My argument in previous posts assumes we accept the official story on CO2, because that won't change no matter what you and I might think. Any changes we might wish for will have to be in the context of anthropogenic CO2 causing global temperature rises.
Everyone and their dog has an opinion on these issues but this is a Rover forum and thus we shouldn't keep posting on the subject.
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I didnÂ’t follow most of your post - your use of language exceeds my ability to understand it - so I'm not sure where we differ. Are you saying that global warming is not happening? Or not anthropogenic? You mentioned COPD, but nobody has ever claimed that COPD is caused by CO2. You must know that the VAST majority of cases of COPD are caused by smoking, not pollution. The evidence gathered over decades is overwhelming. There is evidence that it might be exacerbated by NOx, though. The effects of sub 2.5um particulates are barely understood because they are small enough to enter the bloodstream, but the consequences of that are still largely unknown.
Covered above. I'm saying we do not have enough evidence over the required period to say whether or not this is permanent or an episode as has happened in the past.
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I repeat my main point: if the government wants to reduce CO2 emissions, then the easiest way to achieve that is to tax its production; that is to tax fuel, because it is burning fuel that produces CO2. Whether that is the right thing to do is a separate debate.
But Nox is even worse for humans. Why is that not a bigger concern for government? My opinion, and it is an opinion of one, is that the two issues should be taxed equally.
Quote:

In any case, we in the UK produce less than 2% of global CO2, so until America, Russia, India, Germany and Japan take CO2 reduction seriously, everything we do is just urinating into the wind.

In closing, you mention a "complex set of strands", which is true but pollution is a very well understood subject - maybe more so than you appreciate.
My stance entirely, why have we got the whip on people when we have so little effect on the possible causes and issues. Makes no sense for the UK citizens going back to the Stone Age.

Lets drop this?

Kev
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Old 13th March 2024, 12:05   #76
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Originally Posted by bl52krz View Post
:What is really happening is the same as in Russia. Control your mind and body with innuendo and half truths. I like the one that is coming to the top which is, stop eating meat, so there are less cows to fahrt in the field to pollute the air we breathe with methane. What a load of codswallop. As I have said before, the emissions from all the volcano’s that are erupting at any moment around the globe, cause more ‘pollution’ than all the cars put together. There are so many people now around in this country, and mostly in the Western Hemisphere, who believe everything they read . I wonder if they know something that none of the astronauts who have been on the moon have disproved, that it is made of cheese. Honestly.
This "western conspiracy" following is real and is getting out of hand. Did anyone see the program aired this week on the Hampstead Satanic baby eating cult? Very, very disturbing in the outrage it caused even when the police investigation cleared everyone of the ludicrous hearsay.

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Old 13th March 2024, 12:06   #77
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Indeed.

97% of scientists agree with whoever is funding them.
Spot on. Funny that though!
Kev
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Old 13th March 2024, 14:18   #78
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But Nox is even worse for humans. Why is that not a bigger concern for government? My opinion, and it is an opinion of one, is that the two issues should be taxed equally.
I think the main reason is that NOx is not an existential threat to the human race, the reason being that ultraviolet light in the high atmosphere splits it back into free oxygen and nitrogen. It's mostly a problem in areas of high traffic density. I guess it is taxed in a way, what with the ULEZs and the like.

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Lets drop this?
Well, I guess so, but it is obviously on-topic for this thread. Is it upsetting you or something?
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Old 13th March 2024, 15:06   #79
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I think the main reason is that NOx is not an existential threat to the human race, the reason being that ultraviolet light in the high atmosphere splits it back into free oxygen and nitrogen. It's mostly a problem in areas of high traffic density. I guess it is taxed in a way, what with the ULEZs and the like.
Not yet an existential threat yet Steve but I'm betting not many over the age of 65+ will remember children at school or in their streets having asthma. It is endemic now. As I have mentioned previously, it's not a problem until you contract it.
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Well, I guess so, but it is obviously on-topic for this thread. Is it upsetting you or something?
I thought it had gone away from the topic and no your posts don't upset me but I thought other forum members might be irked by something that should have it's own thread. These opinion based topics can go on for years such is the prevalence of bandwagons.
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Old 13th March 2024, 18:41   #80
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Not yet an existential threat yet Steve but I'm betting not many over the age of 65+ will remember children at school or in their streets having asthma. It is endemic now. As I have mentioned previously, it's not a problem until you contract it.
We seem to be in agreement here. I said NOx is a problem in heavy traffic areas. That's why emission control laws have been tackling it for, what, three decades now?

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[...] I thought other forum members might be irked by something that should have it's own thread. These opinion based topics can go on for years such is the prevalence of bandwagons.
Kev
Some opinions, but it's mostly science. Science doesn't have opinions, just theories and evidence.

I'm discussing this because I think pollution is a good reason not to give older cars a tax discount. You see - on topic! Also, an opinion.
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