The youth of today...

[Zeb]

Stevemac. I have spent 16 years teaching in a variety of schools and have only once had anything thrown at me....ink. Sworn at twice from memory The child was internally excluded for a week and the parents brought in to meet with the Head. Unfortunately NQTs always have the hardest time, even in the 'nicest' schools, and, as you say, it is ultimately down to the Head teacher to ensure discipline is maintained... some do not do this and the results are inevitable...teachers need to be fully supported by the senior management and this does not always happen......especially with NQTs....and it makes me terribly cross that good teachers are put off teaching by a lack of will and support from management..Edit: Probably worth adding that in most schools, most of the time discipline is not the problem the media would have you believe...

Bottom line, people will do what they think they can get away with...so, parents, teachers and higher authorities should be taking a no-nonsense line and not wilting when put under pressure about human rights or political correctness....hardly rocket science to regain the upper hand....but if we leave it and fail to draw a line in the sand, it will become increasingly difficult to put right.

[tourerfogey]

Quote from Zeb:

The reality being, that for many of the ones that do get in bother, if they were occupied it would not have happened

I have heard this balderdash so many times it really winds me up!!

Most kids today have:

Televisions
DVD Players
Expensive Hi Fi Systems
Playstations
The Wii (whatever that is)
Expensive bikes
Mobile phones (to communicate with each other at any time)

We didn't have any of these when I was a kid.

The Scouts, Guides, Sea Scouts etc, Football teams, sports centres etc are available almost anywhere in the country.

Kids generally have more money to go to the cinema etc than when I was a kid.

So please. please, please, don't trot out that old rubbish about kids getting into trouble because they are bored!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The truth is 'yobs is yobs' because they are not taught social values or discipline by their parents or, dare I say it, by the schools which thay attend (please Zeb, that comment is not aimed at you as an ex teacher - and is admittedly something of a generalisation). And the fact is, may of these yobs won't change because they are too bone idle to do so.

rant over

[stevemac]

Originally Posted by Zeb

Stevemac. I have spent 16 years teaching in a variety of schools and have only once had anything thrown at me....ink. Sworn at twice from memory The child was internally excluded for a week and the parents brought in to meet with the Head. Unfortunately NQTs always have the hardest time, even in the 'nicest' schools, and, as you say, it is ultimately down to the Head teacher to ensure discipline is maintained... some do not do this and the results are inevitable...teachers need to be fully supported by the senior management and this does not always happen......especially with NQTs....and it makes me terribly cross that good teachers are put off teaching by a lack of will and support from management..

Bottom line, people will do what they think they can get away with...so, parents, teachers and higher authorities should be taking a no-nonsense line and not wilting when put under pressure about human rights or political correctness....hardly rocket science to regain the upper hand....but if we leave it and fail to draw a line in the sand, it will become increasingly difficult to put right.

You are absolutly right. The school we both teach in now is a prep school. We certainly do not have a strict discipline regime and we do occaisionally have one child thumping another, but the children always know who's boss. I always leave my mobile and iPod on my desk and it would be unheard of for anything to go missing. The doors are (usually!) held open and most thank us for the lesson. It's not rocket science and the kids have great fun. It can be done as long as you have the support of management and even more important PARENTS.

[Zeb]

Ah TF, I would make the distinction between being entertained and being occupied for at least some of your examples. Equally, I did not mention boredom because, as you say, it is no excuse... I should have been clearer perhaps, by occupied I mean gainfully employed in a job, in education or training as opposed to having too much time on their hands.

Also, many of these young people do not actually have particularly large quantities of money and sadly the likes of the Scouts etc. are crying out for people to run such groups as so many people have been put off for fear of being labelled as paedophiles

Edit:

And the fact is, may of these yobs won't change because they are too bone idle to do so.

True in some cases but too often used as a pat response to all young people. In any case, many have only ever experienced failure and rejection and generally believe that they are worthless and have no self esteem or self respect.....
It is an interesting experience to see some big, gobby youth who has been done for stealing cars, abh etc. become reduced to a quivering wreck when presented with a phone to speak to a potential employer...and no, it isn't bone idleness, it is fear. Until these young people can regain or simply gain some self respect, a sense of purpose and a sense of achievement we all lose and it does noone any favours merely to reject them out of hand..

[Zeb]

Originally Posted by stevemac

You are absolutly right. The school we both teach in now is a prep school. We certainly do not have a strict discipline regime and we do occaisionally have one child thumping another, but the children always know who's boss. I always leave my mobile and iPod on my desk and it would be unheard of for anything to go missing. The doors are (usually!) held open and most thank us for the lesson. It's not rocket science and the kids have great fun. It can be done as long as you have the support of management and even more important PARENTS.

Stevemac. I would say a great deal of it is to do with consistent expectations...of, firstly, the parents and then later the school....eg. The number of five / six year olds you can see being repeatedly, openly defiant of their parents. My own simply would not do it*, because the expectation has always been that they will do as they are told, so they do, without us having to be strict or bullying or anything else....



*ahem, that is not to suggest they are perfect, merely well behaved

[JohnDotCom]

Another Problem is:

We are currently rejecting 9 out of 10 School leavers due to their poor Standard of Basics (English, Maths, Science) and Common sense, just from CV's and First meeting!
We set a Standard Test after first interview and in the last week out of 100 applicants only 5 Passed, and I won't be taking any of them on as Trainees either, after todays Interviews.
Some of these are meant to have "A" Levels.

[nick nick]

Originally Posted by Zeb

Not to say there is not an element of complete scrotes amongst our young people but....
I rather think Roweena Davis is right....

Leave those kids alone

Criminalising children doesn't work.

This clampdown might be justified if the offences were actually causing harm. But many young people are now being subject to authoritarian interference before they have actually done anything tangible. They are, for example, chastised for "hanging around" certain areas or wearing hoodies.

Whats the problem society has always had a go at the youth of
the day .When I was a teenager growing up in the 60s and 70s
it was skin heads they were not all bad kids but because the did not
conform they were picked on by the police most just liked
the clothes others the music the same as the hoodies today
when i was 13 my dad took me to my first football match and all
the men had to take off their boots before they were allowed in
that was 1969
The kids then hung around corners just like today but for what
i remember nobody was afraid to walk the streets the way
they are now .the problems we have now are all down to
the government taking away the cane from schools and the
right to chastise your own children . whats the point of putting
the blame at the parents door if your going to tie their hands
if you do wrong you pay the penalty and because there is no
deterrent in the home/school or on the streets more and more
kids are falling fowl of the law because they are encouraged
to do so because they dont fear getting caught.
I better get off my soap box now and get some work done
REGARDS
NICK NICK

[tigerchubs]

I dont feel the kids are any worse today than in the 70s & 80s. I was a teenager in the mid to late 70s, I was a punk rocker and a biker and even then we were looked down on by our peers and targeted by the police. We had violence, fueled by boredom, discontent and cheap booze. A lot were unemployed, had no money and no prospects, but the majority seem to have grown into decent human beings? Some of todays teenagers are dying for their country what bigger sacrifice could anyone make.

I'd give em a chance because I dont think they will turn out all that bad.

[Raistlin]

Originally Posted by tigerchubs

I'd give em a chance because I dont think they will turn out all that bad.

God help us all if they do.

Once again, it is a very small minority whose notoriety is hyped by the media.

The number of youths I see in the Youth Court who then progress to the adult Court is in the order of 1% or less.

[Sancho]

For what it's worth, TF's point above about all the things that have been done to keep kids occupied is exactly what has sent them down the wrong path, in my opinion of course.

Mobile phones, TVs, DVD players and the internet are all things that parents can use to keep kids occupied so that they don't have to look after them properly themselves. To my mind, these kids (probably 90% of all of them) who have effectively been abandoned become scared and lonely, which as they grow into adults grows into resentment and anger. Most mature sufficiently to be able to process these feelings and reconcile them with reality to grow into adults. Some don't and turn into thugs, which then becomes pretty much an inevitable descent.

It's a cliche, but I blame the parents. Anyone who has a child and isn't willing to devote 100% of their spare time to them and be available to them 24/7 has no right to complain about anything because they perpetuate the problem.

And, yes, the media does demonise children, which just makes them more alienated.