New clutch, worse problems - Page 3

bubs · 7th April 2013, 13:49

Thanks for the diagram. Gear change is fine when the engine is off, goes in straight with no "notchyness" for want of an actual word

I have now topped up the gearbox fluid incase we didn't put enough back in when doing the clutch change and bled the system again. The gears are now going in, which it did when we changed the clutch and slave but now the pedal is heavy again and the biting point is still again about 20mm max off the floor meaning the slightess movement engages the clutch. I would assume there is still air in the system but surely the pedal would be lighter not heavier or am I missing something?

kaiser · 7th April 2013, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubs

HELP PLEASE! The new master is in and it's still not going in gear properly. The pedal is now very stiff again and it seems like the clutch isn't disengaging properly (ie bite point too low for pedal). Any ideas please as I can't keep throwing money at this car, it's already cost me over £450 I really don't have and the problem is worse as i now can't even drive it. I've got a feeling i'm gonna end up trying to take the box out again

Should I try bleeding it again? (i was under the impression the new master came pre-filled)

Yes, you should try and bleed it.
You should first try and pump the pedal slowly, say 5 to 10 times. Slow methodical full pedal depressions. That should result in a higher biting point, if there is air in the system. If the point moves up (that you can actually de-clutch properly) then you know you have air in the system.

If so, bleed. I don't know if you know to do that properly. So a method that works fine would be:
1. Depress/release the pedal slowly and evenly 5 times
2. Depress and hold
3. release bleed nipple,
4 observe what comes out
a. if pssst and bubbles, still air, close bleed nipple, release pedal, repeat all from 1 above.
b. if solid stream and no air, close, replenish reservoir and clean with water any paintwork driveway etc.

That should sort your system out, best to have a helper.
If the reservoir does not suck fluid in, the supply to the master might be blocked, or the piston does not retract enough to allow fresh fluid into the cylinder.

Anthony & Maricel · 7th April 2013, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasa

i thought dot 4 was the required lube

No it is DOT 3, it will say use DOT 3 on the cap of the master.

andy willi · 7th April 2013, 16:11

you may have an air lock you would be better pressure bleeding it go and buy a gunstons easy bleed i use it all the time works well p/s did you fit the correct clutch i have come across some boxed wrong and when fitted get a very low biting point where did you get the clutch and what make were they also what make of slave is it

andy

andy willi · 7th April 2013, 16:22

you may have an air lock you would be better pressure bleeding it go and buy a gunstons easy bleed i use it all the time works well p/s did you fit the correct clutch i have come across some boxed wrong and when fitted get a very low biting point where did you get the clutch and what make were they also what make of slave is it

andy

bubs · 8th April 2013, 08:54

thanks for the input andy. I thought an air lock would cause the pedal to be softer not harder?
The clutch looked different to the old one in that the centre plate was thicker because it had springs in rather than the flat plate without on the old one. The main friction plate was in the same position relative to the centre sprocket so we thought it was correct. I got the 2 piece LUK kit from buypartsby (saf) as they didn't have the 3 piece with slave.
The slave unit was the freelander td4 one with metal pipes recommended on the forum from island4x4, i believe this was an LUK one but was in a bag not a box so I can't remember if it was stickered as such.
The new master was also LUK from carparts4less
When bleeding should I be pushing the pedal down and holding then doing the nipple up then pulling the pedal back manually?
Is this the system you would recommend?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gunson-G4062...nson+eezibleed

Billy1mate · 8th April 2013, 09:11

The way I have always bled brakes and clutches is by getting a willing volunteer to push the clutch pedal up & down not fast but smoothly, until the pedal gets hard, then slacken the bleed nipple (with a one way bleed tube into a jar) as the nipple is slackened the pedal moves towards the floor hopefully expelling air laden fluid from the pipework. As the pedal reaches the floor tighten the nipple.
Repeat the process until clean air free fluid flows into the jar.
Obviously the master cylinder needs to be kept topped up or you'll be wasting your time.
I have this to do on mine soon as gear selection especially stationary into 1st won't happen unless I pump the pedal or switch ignition off then select it.

bubs · 8th April 2013, 09:39

that's how i have done it, but i assume the waiting to top up the master allows air to travel back into the system?

Billy1mate · 8th April 2013, 10:06

Probably, the master cylinder doesn't hold much fluid. Some members have fashioned fitted a reservoir under the bonnet that feeds the clutch master making it easier to top up & keep an eye on.

DMGRS · 8th April 2013, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubs

The slave unit was the freelander td4 one with metal pipes recommended on the forum from island4x4, i believe this was an LUK one but was in a bag not a box so I can't remember if it was stickered as such.
The new master was also LUK from carparts4less
When bleeding should I be pushing the pedal down and holding then doing the nipple up then pulling the pedal back manually?
Is this the system you would recommend?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gunson-G4062...nson+eezibleed

Important - how much was the slave you fitted? There's a cheap Britpart one, and a genuine AP. The Britpart item failed after 25 miles when a friend fitted one.

The good AP unit is about £54 inc VAT. If you paid less, you have the cheap one and it's probably failed.

8th April 2013, 08:54	#26
bubs Posted a thing or two ROVER 75 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Canvey Island, Essex Posts: 1,651 Thanks: 43 Thanked 163 Times in 134 Posts	thanks for the input andy. I thought an air lock would cause the pedal to be softer not harder? The clutch looked different to the old one in that the centre plate was thicker because it had springs in rather than the flat plate without on the old one. The main friction plate was in the same position relative to the centre sprocket so we thought it was correct. I got the 2 piece LUK kit from buypartsby (saf) as they didn't have the 3 piece with slave. The slave unit was the freelander td4 one with metal pipes recommended on the forum from island4x4, i believe this was an LUK one but was in a bag not a box so I can't remember if it was stickered as such. The new master was also LUK from carparts4less When bleeding should I be pushing the pedal down and holding then doing the nipple up then pulling the pedal back manually? Is this the system you would recommend? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gunson-G4062...nson+eezibleed Last edited by bubs; 8th April 2013 at 09:04..

7th April 2013, 13:49	#21
bubs Posted a thing or two ROVER 75 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Canvey Island, Essex Posts: 1,651 Thanks: 43 Thanked 163 Times in 134 Posts	Thanks for the diagram. Gear change is fine when the engine is off, goes in straight with no "notchyness" for want of an actual word I have now topped up the gearbox fluid incase we didn't put enough back in when doing the clutch change and bled the system again. The gears are now going in, which it did when we changed the clutch and slave but now the pedal is heavy again and the biting point is still again about 20mm max off the floor meaning the slightess movement engages the clutch. I would assume there is still air in the system but surely the pedal would be lighter not heavier or am I missing something?

7th April 2013, 16:11	#24
andy willi I really should get out more....... PRE LAUNCH 75/ZT 190/XJ 550 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: carcroft doncaster Posts: 2,866 Thanks: 101 Thanked 680 Times in 342 Posts	you may have an air lock you would be better pressure bleeding it go and buy a gunstons easy bleed i use it all the time works well p/s did you fit the correct clutch i have come across some boxed wrong and when fitted get a very low biting point where did you get the clutch and what make were they also what make of slave is it andy

7th April 2013, 16:22	#25
andy willi I really should get out more....... PRE LAUNCH 75/ZT 190/XJ 550 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: carcroft doncaster Posts: 2,866 Thanks: 101 Thanked 680 Times in 342 Posts	you may have an air lock you would be better pressure bleeding it go and buy a gunstons easy bleed i use it all the time works well p/s did you fit the correct clutch i have come across some boxed wrong and when fitted get a very low biting point where did you get the clutch and what make were they also what make of slave is it andy

8th April 2013, 09:11	#27
Billy1mate Posted a thing or two 120d M Sport Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Sunny Weymouth Posts: 1,815 Thanks: 153 Thanked 142 Times in 121 Posts	The way I have always bled brakes and clutches is by getting a willing volunteer to push the clutch pedal up & down not fast but smoothly, until the pedal gets hard, then slacken the bleed nipple (with a one way bleed tube into a jar) as the nipple is slackened the pedal moves towards the floor hopefully expelling air laden fluid from the pipework. As the pedal reaches the floor tighten the nipple. Repeat the process until clean air free fluid flows into the jar. Obviously the master cylinder needs to be kept topped up or you'll be wasting your time. I have this to do on mine soon as gear selection especially stationary into 1st won't happen unless I pump the pedal or switch ignition off then select it.

8th April 2013, 09:39	#28
bubs Posted a thing or two ROVER 75 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Canvey Island, Essex Posts: 1,651 Thanks: 43 Thanked 163 Times in 134 Posts	that's how i have done it, but i assume the waiting to top up the master allows air to travel back into the system?

8th April 2013, 10:06	#29
Billy1mate Posted a thing or two 120d M Sport Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Sunny Weymouth Posts: 1,815 Thanks: 153 Thanked 142 Times in 121 Posts	Probably, the master cylinder doesn't hold much fluid. Some members have fashioned fitted a reservoir under the bonnet that feeds the clutch master making it easier to top up & keep an eye on.