Rover 75 2.0 diesel, pros and cons

[trikey]

Originally Posted by Rogue

I might be mistaken but i think Brian posted a graph showing max bhp at 166 on one of his.

I'm sure he will be along shortly...

[MissMoppet]

Originally Posted by COLVERT

13 years on. The most reliable car I've ever owned.

Parts replaced.

1/ Two bulbs.

2/ Brake pads.

3/ tyres.

4/ front suspension arm . ( Last week. )

Water leak in boot stopped.


That's the lot.----

Can we swap then? Mine was a one owner car, now 129K miles, and I've replaced alternator, air con compressor, front discs and pads, several top strut bearings, droplinks, front and rear suspension arms, turbo rubber tube, two crankshaft pulleys, windscreen, battery, air con pipe. Haven't dared add it up - BUT I still enjoy driving it. Mad aren't I?

[marinabrian]

Yawn, here we go........ rehashing the same old arguments again and again.

The car in question was a stock 116 belonging to rich17865, the only modification was the EGR vacuum hose being blanked off.

I had nothing to do with this car other than to health check it, and apply the 160.

On the rollers, it produced 159.4 BHP, I wasn't present, there were others there including owners of 177 upgraded ZT V6 and 190's et cetera .


All of the cars produced what were expected of them..........I don't need to justify the existence of the 160, nor do I need to produce plumes of black smoke to give credence to the saying "no smoke, no poke"

I'm not on Facebook, don't rip off others, and don't feel the need to make self qualifying statements about what I do or indeed don't, nor that of others

At the end of the day, there is no one twisting anybodies arm up their back, and I've never had anyone say........."that's rubbish, take it off please"

Brian

[macafee2]

Originally Posted by Jamiewelch

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but the "160" map doesn't actually produce 160bhp. It produces around 140-145bhp. Have your car put on a dyno and you will be disappointed . It does improve the power from stock. But there is still a bit more that can be had. The stock turbo can't reliably produce enough boost for 160bhp.

I'd quite like to see a dyno comparison of a 135 (129bhp stock). a "160" map, and a map from someone like Force Tuning or SAWS Tuning all on the same car on the same dyno, just to see what the outcome was.

i guess I'm not that bothered what the actual bhp is except for insurance purposes. On my cdt the remap made a significant difference and when towing the caravan makes a truly significant difference. Even solo with my slow driving style I notice the difference. my cdti solo is fine as it is but with the caravan I do notice it is lacking a bit.

Anyway, we digress from the op which is pros and cons of a diesel

macafee2

[Jamiewelch]

Originally Posted by marinabrian

Yawn, here we go........ rehashing the same old arguments again and again.

The car in question was a stock 116 belonging to rich17865, the only modification was the EGR vacuum hose being blanked off.

I had nothing to do with this car other than to health check it, and apply the 160.

On the rollers, it produced 159.4 BHP, I wasn't present, there were others there including owners of 177 upgraded ZT V6 and 190's et cetera .


All of the cars produced what were expected of them..........I don't need to justify the existence of the 160, nor do I need to produce plumes of black smoke to give credence to the saying "no smoke, no poke"

I'm not on Facebook, don't rip off others, and don't feel the need to make self qualifying statements about what I do or indeed don't, nor that of others

At the end of the day, there is no one twisting anybodies arm up their back, and I've never had anyone say........."that's rubbish, take it off please"

Brian

Could someone upload the dyno prinout from this car? :-) I'd quite like to see if to be honest.

Originally Posted by trikey

The same old argument keeps coming up from Mr Force's supporters, please don't come on here spouting that the map isn't as good as one of Tom's maps, our 160 remap does not cheat the fuelling and will not cause a fail at mot time and has been proven on the dyno to exceed 160 bhp.

Does not cheat the fuelling? Please explain how you get more power? If you do not increase the fuelling then you can't increase the power... Power doesn't come out of nowhere.

As above, please post a printout from a dyno run of a car with the "160" map, producing 160bhp. There are always people talking about these dyno runs but I am yet to see one.

I know a couple of cars that have previously had the "160" map, that have been remapped by other tuners and their cars are faster despite only outputting 150-155bhp.

160BHP isn't reliably achievable with the stock turbo. Which is why most companies max out at around 155bhp, could you also explain how you managed to get this extra power? Either you did some super magic with the map file or the dyno was simply not calibrated correctly.

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by Jamiewelch

Could someone upload the dyno prinout from this car? :-) I'd quite like to see if to be honest.



Does not cheat the fuelling? Please explain how you get more power? If you do not increase the fuelling then you can't increase the power... Power doesn't come out of nowhere.

As above, please post a printout from a dyno run of a car with the "160" map, producing 160bhp. There are always people talking about these dyno runs but I am yet to see one.

I know a couple of cars that have previously had the "160" map, that have been remapped by other tuners and their cars are faster despite only outputting 150-155bhp.

160BHP isn't reliably achievable with the stock turbo. Which is why most companies max out at around 155bhp, could you also explain how you managed to get this extra power? Either you did some super magic with the map file or the dyno was simply not calibrated correctly.

Sadly the upload of the dyno run from Rich's car was hosted by Photobucket,

However......





Or look here LINK

[Jamiewelch]

Originally Posted by marinabrian

Sadly the upload of the dyno run from Rich's car was hosted by Photobucket,

However......





Or look here LINK

It's a shame the only dyno run to prove it isn't available anymore. Surely there were multiple dyno runs done on different cars to make sure the map was stable and to ensure that the "160" value was definitely proven? Wasn't it sold as the "160" map before this value? If so how was this value worked out. I would just like to see some genuine proof on a respectable dyno of it reaching this figure.

The spreadsheet comparison isn't really viable proof. And a diesel running 170bhp!? I've got a feeling that dyno wasn't calibrated properly! I'd like to get my BMW on the same dyno to get a higher reading that it actually is, might even say that I have 400BHP out of my M57!.

Also noticed from the videos, they don't strap the car down (which is downright dangerous!). And a car producing not a huge amount of power was struggling to get grip? I personally wouldn't trust that dyno.

Does anyone near Wincanton near Yeovil with a "160" map fancy a free dyno run?

[Rogue]

@Jamiewelch


I have to wonder why you feel it's so important that you have to try and discredit the '160' map which, to my knowledge, is yet to have a single complaint from anyone trying it.... myself included.

I have absolute trust in Brian and the other traders offering this service at a relatively nominal cost compared to the performance gains and it's also widely reported to improve fuel economy. What's not to like?

If you feel it's not for you then better to go elsewhere rather than drag up this subject again... This arguement has been done to death multiple times in the past.

[Jamiewelch]

Originally Posted by Rogue

@Jamiewelch


I have to wonder why you feel it's so important that you have to try and discredit the '160' map which, to my knowledge, is yet to have a single complaint from anyone trying it.... myself included.

I have absolute trust in Brian and the other traders offering this service at a relatively nominal cost compared to the performance gains and it's also widely reported to improve fuel economy. What's not to like?

If you feel it's not for you then better to go elsewhere rather than drag up this subject again... This arguement has been done to death multiple times in the past.

The main fact is, that it is not 160bhp. I am yet to see some genuine proof from a reputable dyno run. Numbers on a spreadsheet aren't valid, they could just be made up...

If the map is being sold as 160bhp them it should be 160bhp, to be honest 155bhp is close enough for me. I haven't said it is a bad map, I am just saying it isn't 160bhp so shouldn't be marketed as such.

I would really appreciate it if anyone near Yeovil with a 160 map is willing to have their car put on a dyno. The dyno run will not cost you a penny.

The argument had been done to death, and there has not been any genuine proof that I have seen. As above, if someone want's a free dyno run then I am happy to get this sorted for you.

Just because someone is saying the map is 160bhp is that good enough proof for everyone? Having driven a car with the "160" map and then again after it had a proper remap on, there is a noticeable difference in power. You also don't have to have smoke to have power, despite what some people say on here.

I would also still like to know how you guys get the power if you don't "cheat the fuelling"?

[Rogue]

Originally Posted by Jamiewelch

The main fact is, that it is not 160bhp. I am yet to see some genuine proof from a reputable dyno run. Numbers on a spreadsheet aren't valid, they could just be made up...

If the map is being sold as 160bhp them it should be 160bhp, to be honest 155bhp is close enough for me. I haven't said it is a bad map, I am just saying it isn't 160bhp so shouldn't be marketed as such.

I would really appreciate it if anyone near Yeovil with a 160 map is willing to have their car put on a dyno. The dyno run will not cost you a penny.

The argument had been done to death, and there has not been any genuine proof that I have seen. As above, if someone want's a free dyno run then I am happy to get this sorted for you.

Just because someone is saying the map is 160bhp is that good enough proof for everyone? Having driven a car with the "160" map and then again after it had a proper remap on, there is a noticeable difference in power. You also don't have to have smoke to have power, despite what some people say on here.

I would also still like to know how you guys get the power if you don't "cheat the fuelling"?

And you still havn't answered the question asked. Why do you personally feel it important to discredit the map? If you don't believe it is as it says then don't get it and go elsewhere.