F1 - Team Orders? - Page 3

wraymond · 25th March 2013, 19:26

It's all very well saying that because team orders are there they should be allowed to prevail, even if they cause a procession ( a common accusation of F1 a short time ago). Remember Flavio Briatore and the disgraceful attempt to fix the race?

No, no team principal or manager should be able to dictate which of their drivers should take a victory. It destroys ambition, is dangerous and definitely not in the interests of the public who pay ridiculous money to attend. Where there is a safety aspect, then yes, it's necessary, but not in this case.

If the 'team' had serviced Webber's car properly he might not have had to conserve fuel to comply with the regulations and the same thing with Rosburg having to back pedal behind Hamilton. What a lousy disappointing result for a total of 4 drivers!

tonybubble · 25th March 2013, 20:17

FLYER · 25th March 2013, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonybubble

brilliant .

rovexCDTi · 25th March 2013, 20:26

This problem was really the fault of Pirelli, the fuel excuse is a red herring. Last year the tyres were spot on, this year they just degrade too fast, the drivers cant use the full power of the car for risk of destroying the tyres in 2 laps. The result is that they turn the engines down and manage it with team orders. Its become a dash to front and then a parade. Hamilton had fuel issues (and tyres issues as they all had), but Rosberg was managing his tyres specifically. Due to them both having issues it was decided to keep them in line rather than risk them both burning out.

The Red Bull situation was similar, but Vettel simply didn't play the game. While I agree with him that it should be a race not a parade, there are also basic sporting rules. He took advatage of the fact that his team mate wasnt expecting a pass, it was unfair and unsporting. He won the race by deception its that simple.

1gp · 25th March 2013, 20:34

Feel for mark , he always seems to get sour grapes... vettel is just a pure racing machine, and nothing will get in the way of a win , like already said , he is another schmacher , and thinks he is above everyone else including his team.. what are red bull going to do , nothing they can do , its only the fia that could sort it , and its not really there problem... as for rosberg the lap times tell the tail , and there was no need, for him to tell the team he was quicker. it would be intresting to see how much fuel lewis had left , and what rosberg had left , then we could see who really had the true pace.

MrDoodles · 25th March 2013, 20:59

For me, it just summarises how **** F1 has become!

mmcwalter · 26th March 2013, 13:19

Vettel should have done what he was told. Its not just an individual sport its a team game as well. The team want the maximum amount of points with the minimum amount of risk. Think back to Turkey 2010. Red Bull could have had a fair haul of points but lost them all because of the two of them fighting and taking each other off. Vettel will probably have plenty of opportunity to score points throughout the season anyway. It was only race two. Plenty of opportunities ahead for point scoring.

topman · 26th March 2013, 13:32

i think it was good for F1 a bit of controversy never harmed any sport. Put it higher up the news programs. I know there are teams and team order are part of the sport, but I think it would better if there weren't any at all.

After all the sport is there for the fan/viewer not for the teams. All the rules and purpose of the sport is to keep the fans (and therefore the ££ rolling in) watching.

stocktake · 26th March 2013, 14:27

I suppose now it becomes a power struggle, who is bigger, Red Bull or Vettel?

Regardless of if you agree or not, a team order is a team order is it not? If this goes unpunished then it makes a mockery of team rules and chain of command.

If it were up to me, and it could be done I would let Vettel sit out the next race and give the test driver their 15 mins of fame, seriously I certainly wouldn't let it go unchallenged.

Now, that really would be toys out of the pram time.

topman · 26th March 2013, 14:31

That's a good point. I don't agree with them but if the rules are broken there has to be a punishment.

25th March 2013, 19:26	#21
wraymond This is my second home 75 Auto 2.5 SE Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Westcliff on Sea Posts: 5,228 Thanks: 423 Thanked 1,680 Times in 1,014 Posts	It's all very well saying that because team orders are there they should be allowed to prevail, even if they cause a procession ( a common accusation of F1 a short time ago). Remember Flavio Briatore and the disgraceful attempt to fix the race? No, no team principal or manager should be able to dictate which of their drivers should take a victory. It destroys ambition, is dangerous and definitely not in the interests of the public who pay ridiculous money to attend. Where there is a safety aspect, then yes, it's necessary, but not in this case. If the 'team' had serviced Webber's car properly he might not have had to conserve fuel to comply with the regulations and the same thing with Rosburg having to back pedal behind Hamilton. What a lousy disappointing result for a total of 4 drivers! __________________ member no. 235

25th March 2013, 20:17	#22
tonybubble ZT, 75 & 260 Rescue 2002 MG ZT 260 (007), 2003 MG ZT-T 260 SE, 2004 75 CDTI Tourer Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Brent Posts: 2,447 Thanks: 88 Thanked 50 Times in 29 Posts	__________________ I counted them in and I counted them out (with apologies to Brian Hanrahan) - 005, 007, 019, 051, 103, 288, 354, 455, 577, 700 - the story continues. http://www9.mg-cars.org.uk/mgoc260/f...lies/smile.png http://www.two-sixties.com

25th March 2013, 20:26	#24
rovexCDTi This is my second home MG ZT+ 135 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Exeter Posts: 3,626 Thanks: 9 Thanked 42 Times in 26 Posts	This problem was really the fault of Pirelli, the fuel excuse is a red herring. Last year the tyres were spot on, this year they just degrade too fast, the drivers cant use the full power of the car for risk of destroying the tyres in 2 laps. The result is that they turn the engines down and manage it with team orders. Its become a dash to front and then a parade. Hamilton had fuel issues (and tyres issues as they all had), but Rosberg was managing his tyres specifically. Due to them both having issues it was decided to keep them in line rather than risk them both burning out. The Red Bull situation was similar, but Vettel simply didn't play the game. While I agree with him that it should be a race not a parade, there are also basic sporting rules. He took advatage of the fact that his team mate wasnt expecting a pass, it was unfair and unsporting. He won the race by deception its that simple. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Last edited by rovexCDTi; 25th March 2013 at 20:32..

26th March 2013, 14:27	#29
stocktake Vis Whiz Rover 75 2.5 auto Saloon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: LEEDS Posts: 20,604 Thanks: 2,057 Thanked 3,056 Times in 1,621 Posts	I suppose now it becomes a power struggle, who is bigger, Red Bull or Vettel? Regardless of if you agree or not, a team order is a team order is it not? If this goes unpunished then it makes a mockery of team rules and chain of command. If it were up to me, and it could be done I would let Vettel sit out the next race and give the test driver their 15 mins of fame, seriously I certainly wouldn't let it go unchallenged. Now, that really would be toys out of the pram time. __________________ Dave... Lost a few stones and a Gall Bladder and part of a bile duct and all of my dignity in the suppository incident

25th March 2013, 20:34	#25
1gp I really should get out more....... mgzt, 135 cdti , manual , in solar red.also own a mgtf. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: notts. Posts: 2,105 Thanks: 28 Thanked 40 Times in 39 Posts	Feel for mark , he always seems to get sour grapes... vettel is just a pure racing machine, and nothing will get in the way of a win , like already said , he is another schmacher , and thinks he is above everyone else including his team.. what are red bull going to do , nothing they can do , its only the fia that could sort it , and its not really there problem... as for rosberg the lap times tell the tail , and there was no need, for him to tell the team he was quicker. it would be intresting to see how much fuel lewis had left , and what rosberg had left , then we could see who really had the true pace.

25th March 2013, 20:59	#26
MrDoodles Banned MG ZT+ V6 190 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Spalding Posts: 13,245 Thanks: 369 Thanked 1,196 Times in 818 Posts	For me, it just summarises how **** F1 has become!

26th March 2013, 13:19	#27
mmcwalter Newbie MG ZT CDTi Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Dundee Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Vettel should have done what he was told. Its not just an individual sport its a team game as well. The team want the maximum amount of points with the minimum amount of risk. Think back to Turkey 2010. Red Bull could have had a fair haul of points but lost them all because of the two of them fighting and taking each other off. Vettel will probably have plenty of opportunity to score points throughout the season anyway. It was only race two. Plenty of opportunities ahead for point scoring.

26th March 2013, 13:32	#28
topman This is my second home MG ZT-T 190 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 5,493 Thanks: 372 Thanked 647 Times in 534 Posts	i think it was good for F1 a bit of controversy never harmed any sport. Put it higher up the news programs. I know there are teams and team order are part of the sport, but I think it would better if there weren't any at all. After all the sport is there for the fan/viewer not for the teams. All the rules and purpose of the sport is to keep the fans (and therefore the ££ rolling in) watching.

26th March 2013, 14:31	#30
topman This is my second home MG ZT-T 190 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 5,493 Thanks: 372 Thanked 647 Times in 534 Posts	That's a good point. I don't agree with them but if the rules are broken there has to be a punishment.