Network Issue

[humphshumphs]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

I'm assuming it is something like this...

Router----------LAN CABLE--------------------wifi access point

Try connecting the AP to the Router with just a short LAN cable, to see if that works.

Is the router using maybe a weird series of IP's and the AP set for a different one. Is the router dynamically allocating IP's and the AP on a fixed one?

Even with no LAN connection, devices should be able to log into the AP, can they?

A work around for a router, powerline, AP which stops working sometimes, is to power it from a plug in timer. Set it to switch off for one minute, each night, in the early hours so it is forced to reboot at least once per day.

Yup, layout is Router ---- Lan Cable ---- Access Point.

It all works when connected via a patch cable. Router is DHCP server, and allocates correctly. Access point can be seen and connected to even when it can't see the router, so no issue there.

The powerline units don't work if plugged into a timer or extension lead.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by humphshumphs

Yup, layout is Router ---- Lan Cable ---- Access Point.

It all works when connected via a patch cable. Router is DHCP server, and allocates correctly. Access point can be seen and connected to even when it can't see the router, so no issue there.

The powerline units don't work if plugged into a timer or extension lead.

I'm not surprised at all about the powerline units, they do tend to fail over a distance or where there are mains filters in use. Its just that you originally said they worked, but would eventually lock up and you would have to regularly reboot /reset them.

I had problems with my solid wire network cable, in that there are two types of crimp. One for stranded, one for solid cable - might this have caught him out?

You are saying it works via a short patch lead, but not via the installed cable. Could a temporary cable be run over the the same route length to see if that works?

[humphshumphs]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

I'm not surprised at all about the powerline units, they do tend to fail over a distance or where there are mains filters in use. Its just that you originally said they worked, but would eventually lock up and you would have to regularly reboot /reset them.

I had problems with my solid wire network cable, in that there are two types of crimp. One for stranded, one for solid cable - might this have caught him out?

You are saying it works via a short patch lead, but not via the installed cable. Could a temporary cable be run over the the same route length to see if that works?

The powerline units worked for probably a year or so, then fail. Probably something to do with the fact that the cottages are on a different phase to the house and also they have solar panels/wind turbine so lots of different possible issues

The network cable is solid and terminated with proper RJ45 sockets, so no issues with the correct plug

The installed cable is something near 100 metres (!) and runs under a driveway, so not something I can run a temporary cable for (mores the pity).

[HarryM1BYT]

OK...

The length limit is only a limit where performance begins to degrade. If you really cannot run the cable across the driveway, for just a few minutes, could you perhaps test it with it still on the coil?

Have you tried other ports on the router, might it have a faulty port?

There is obviously something very wrong with your existing cable, but I am struggling to guess at what.

[EDIT] clutching at straws....

You say the two ends are on different mains phases. I have never heard of that causing a problem and the power supplies of each should provide full mains to DC output isolation, but......

If one of them were allowing some AC to get through, it would swamp the LAN signal.

[humphshumphs]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

OK...

The length limit is only a limit where performance begins to degrade. If you really cannot run the cable across the driveway, for just a few minutes, could you perhaps test it with it still on the coil?

Have you tried other ports on the router, might it have a faulty port?

There is obviously something very wrong with your existing cable, but I am struggling to guess at what.

[EDIT] clutching at straws....

You say the two ends are on different mains phases. I have never heard of that causing a problem and the power supplies of each should provide full mains to DC output isolation, but......

If one of them were allowing some AC to get through, it would swamp the LAN signal.

Have tried all ports on the router, and still the same.

Might just see if I can make up a huge patch lead for testing purposes at work today and play with our kit to see what shakes loose so to speak

As far as the as the powerline adapters on different phases, this site is the only one that has problems (I've got a couple of others that have 3-phase with these units working with no problem across the phases).

I am beginning to think that as they also have a wind turbine, solar panels as well as a big swimming pool (with pumps/heating etc), that it's more of an interference issue causing the problems, but need to investigate further.

[HarryM1BYT]

One thing you have not mentioned in detail, is the separation or segregation between the rest of the cabling and the LAN cable.

Are they in completely separate ducts, is the LAN duct inside the main duct, or are all the cables in one duct (which the regulations do not permit)?

[humphshumphs]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

One thing you have not mentioned in detail, is the separation or segregation between the rest of the cabling and the LAN cable.

Are they in completely separate ducts, is the LAN duct inside the main duct, or are all the cables in one duct (which the regulations do not permit)?

The new lan cables have been run in their own duct/conduit, with no mains cables at all. And in a totally different way to the mains cables as well.

[humphshumphs]

Things have now moved forward.......

I was onsite today from 15.30 with a 110metre patch lead to test the BT Hub5 to access points.

Everything worked fine without any issues. Even with a birds nest of excess cable!!!

My customer then called the electrician who installed the cable and we had an onsite meeting that lasted nearly 2 hours!
He was not very happy that the cable wasn't working and tried all sorts of ways to get out of doing anything. He actually said that he never did the 2nd fix of these cables and didn't even have a simple network tester!

I am back onsite tomorrow morning as the electrician wants to change the pairs over to see if it is a pair issue!

I don't hold out a lot of hope as I have used a network tester and each of the 4 pairs all test out via the tester, but fail to work with the Router & Access point. He couldn't (or wouldn't) get his head around the fact that the tester checks out each conductor with what is basically a battery & a bulb (a 9v battery & led in the unit), but the computer signals are millivolts.

I think at the end of tomorrow, we will still be in the same boat, and the electrician will end up having to run new cables!

Will keep you informed with more info tomorrow

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by humphshumphs

I am back onsite tomorrow morning as the electrician wants to change the pairs over to see if it is a pair issue!

I don't hold out a lot of hope as I have used a network tester and each of the 4 pairs all test out via the tester, but fail to work with the Router & Access point. He couldn't (or wouldn't) get his head around the fact that the tester checks out each conductor with what is basically a battery & a bulb (a 9v battery & led in the unit), but the computer signals are millivolts.

I think at the end of tomorrow, we will still be in the same boat, and the electrician will end up having to run new cables!

Will keep you informed with more info tomorrow

The cable testers are far from infallible, they are just a rough and ready test.

I would double check the segregation of the mains and LAN cable for your own safety too. You really don't want 240v appearing on the end of the LAN cable should there be a fault underground.

[humphshumphs]

Right it has all been sorted and is now working.

After our best part of 2 hour meeting yesterday and finding out that the electrician didn't do the 2nd fix normally and didn't own a network tester, when I got onsite he had opened up the sockets and ........ the issue hit me!

He had wired up the sockets in such a way that:

A) He had stripped about 6" of cover off and instead of trimming down before fitting in the IDC clips, just left it looped up!

B) Not followed the colours on the sockets and just seemed to make up his own standard / He had induced so much cross-talk as he used White/Green paired with Orange & White/Orange paired with Green - The other pairs were fine.


So as he had done this at each end, the network tester (which only checks that pin1 is wired to pin1 etc) found no issue. But as computer signals are very low voltage etc., this cross-talk was causing the signal to degrade to nothing.

Customer very happy as they now have perfect WiFi in each letting cottage and I am thankful that it's all sorted (and it wasn't my fault )