The euro - what a mess

[man of kent]

I thought that Cameron had used the veto and hence any changes would not happen. Oops. I forgot they change the rules in Europe to suit them. Apparently a veto can be overruled by the other 26!

Although we are sinking with the number of immigrants allowed in by EU rules ( more to follow when the Turks join the EU) the EU is still our major trading group. When we joined the EU we stuck 2 fingers up at our commonwealth (except New Zealand who we got a special deal for thats at an end) so will they welcome us back? The UK as Cameron says has to stay in the EU. I doubt that the EU will kick us out of Europe but Camerons nasties will try everything they can to get us out.

Like it or not we are Europeans and we just have to follow their example. In special cases we will not follow their rules like them sometimes. The first thing we should do is just close the doors to more immigrants. So we will get fined by the European courts. Just do what the French do. Ignore the courts - special case!

Apparently all UK citizens are wealthier than Germans as most of us own our homes which is an investment whilst Germans rent their homes and have to save for retirement.

[e668ecp]

The Euro will go down the pan in the not too distant future unless they implement a common tax / benefits system across all member states. Thing is the people of the weaker countries won't accept it and so they'll enter into a catch 22 situation which benefits no one.

[Graham1961]

I actually think we would be better of in the long run out of the EU altogether...we just might get our country back, many of the EU rules that have been forced upon us....France and Germany ignore themselves when it suits them, we have pumped billions into the EU that would possibly have been better of being invested here.....Mr Cameron had promised a referendum of the EU when in opposition.....but he appears to have broken it already..

[Dashiel]

This whole thing with us being isolated at that meeting by the other 26 is nothing but a smokescreen by the Germans and French. The reality is they are making the final preparations to sell Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Italy and possibly Spain too down the river. By this I mean they will refuse to bail them out when the next lot of debt needs refinancing on the international bond markets early next year. The countries will be forced out of the Euro as it will simply be impossible to pay the interest rates they are going to be charged by the market. Then they will have to default, call in the IMF etc. etc.

So France and Germany have just produced the Aunt Sally (us) to take the punches, when in fact they are getting ready to push the Irish etc. in to the sea come early next year.

Just be glad you don't live in one of these countries - they are truly ******!

[man of kent]

The basic problem is the Euro is flawed. As Jac Delors said the Euro should have a common 'banker' so that Europe can smooth out the difference by judgement at brussels. Unfortunately there are uneven economies and the most powerful economy will just get stronger. That economy is Germany with France hanging on for all its worth. Now why would the stronger economies give up their dominence because the Med countries have failed or more accurately cannot compete.

We now see, and all the other countries know it, there has to be monetary union but that would leave Germany & France as just 2 of 27 with 2/27ths of voting decisions. I just cannot see them going for full monetary union. They just seem to introduce new rules to stop it getting worse with no monetary union and they can keep trading at an advantage.

I think the countries outside the Euro do actually support the UK but are scared they will get kicked out by France & Germany.

How did the EU get in a position where Germany & France are dominating and 25 others have to follow?

French & German goods are off my shopping list!

[blaggard]

Germany and its lapdog France will continue to look after their own interests at the expense of the rest, and particular Southern Europe (though they have pretty much picked that carcass clean) they want the Financial Markets moved out of London and into Germany, Fourth Reich?
They have ignored current treaties and will continue to move the goalposts of any subsequent, worthless agreements, Clegg has now completely destabilised our shaky coalition and fuelled the Federalists for the fight ahead, idiot!

[Roverowner]

How many -French and German cars are on the roads in UK?? At least the French subsidised their car industries from the 70s onwards. The French makes wouldn´t have survived if their government han´t plowed millions into them. What did the British Government do?? The British seem to have a wish to tell everbody else how usless they are. Don´t know why. They gladly put up with shoddy goods from all over the world without much complaint but as soon as the goods are made in UK....... uproar. The British public have -made there own beds-, now have to lie in them. We buy all the cheap Chinese stuff and wonder why the wealth of the country shifts to other parts of the world. The Chinese are starting to have problems now. Can´t flog the quantities of cheap goods to the -Europeans- any more because they have no money (we priced them out). So now we have to concentrate on being selfsuficiant. Make in China and sell in China, to keep the wheels rolling.. The French and Germans are tring to save as much as they can of the -whitey- insustrial -culture- They won´t succeed of course because once the novelty with BMW and Merc etc, wears off -in the east- and the eastern countries have just as good cars etc as, say the Germans, then they will pull he plug. -What´s in a name-

All the EU countries that are in Dire Straits now have been living of the EU -never, never- for years, now the bubble has burst. It ws only a matter of time.......

[ianinfrance]

Originally Posted by wraymond

I'm not a fan of David Cameron, he's a Blair wannabe after all, but I've just seen on the news that French pygmy (apologies to people of short stature everywhere) blank him in public. So I think he now needs some support.

The old prejudices surface again, I'm afraid. All the grandstanding about unity healing the wounds of 20th. century conflicts is after all only skin deep - while it suits slack-jawed liars.

The UK had a sound trading basis and trade surpluses with our continental neighbours before we were part of it, I can't see why that shouldn't be again. Unless of course you discount treachery by politicians bent on vengeance. We buy more from Europe than we export to it and we are disadvantaged by CAP and Fishing rights etc. For a country to lose its food industries (agriculture, fish) voluntarily is criminal in my view. It's a very one-sided affair.

I often feel that to call another country out is inappropriate. There's nothing wrong with the peoples of another country, it's always the politicians. They are congenitally incompetent and totally false. They wreak havoc wherever they go and mysteriously always manage to evade any repurcussions or liabilities afterwards. For instance, how many members of successive governments have had their offspring in the armed services and killed or injured in wars? Proportionately miniscule.

Might I suggest that references to Germany, France, Italy, Greece etc. be in future referred to with the distinction of 'politicians' as in:
German politicians, French politicians and so on. Perhaps then temperate language can be focussed on the appropriate targets. After all, they do all speak English.

I agree, the french colleagues, of my wife, at the clinic are saying they don't want Brussels to decide what they spend their money on and Germany finally won!
There has been some talk about protests but it may be just that talk!

So lets separate the peoples of Europe from the politicians and the political elite of Europe.

[ianinfrance]

Originally Posted by man of kent

I thought that Cameron had used the veto and hence any changes would not happen. Oops. I forgot they change the rules in Europe to suit them. Apparently a veto can be overruled by the other 26!

Although we are sinking with the number of immigrants allowed in by EU rules ( more to follow when the Turks join the EU) the EU is still our major trading group. When we joined the EU we stuck 2 fingers up at our commonwealth (except New Zealand who we got a special deal for thats at an end) so will they welcome us back? The UK as Cameron says has to stay in the EU. I doubt that the EU will kick us out of Europe but Camerons nasties will try everything they can to get us out.

Like it or not we are Europeans and we just have to follow their example. In special cases we will not follow their rules like them sometimes. The first thing we should do is just close the doors to more immigrants. So we will get fined by the European courts. Just do what the French do. Ignore the courts - special case!

Apparently all UK citizens are wealthier than Germans as most of us own our homes which is an investment whilst Germans rent their homes and have to save for retirement.

I think we have to have a ruthless business approach to this. We need to export to Europe as there are 500 million rich (relatively speaking) consumers there and 50 million less well off in the commonwealth nations. So dropping the former for the latter is a non starter.

Concentrating our efforts on diversifying our economy seeking markets in the growing world i.e India where we do hardly any business and China and Southern America. Europe is likely to suffer little growth for a decade much like Japan experienced. I suppose that would be Ok for us except we need growth to pay off the deficit right now!

[ianinfrance]

Originally Posted by Roverowner

How many -French and German cars are on the roads in UK?? At least the French subsidised their car industries from the 70s onwards. The French makes wouldn´t have survived if their government han´t plowed millions into them. What did the British Government do?? The British seem to have a wish to tell everbody else how usless they are. Don´t know why. They gladly put up with shoddy goods from all over the world without much complaint but as soon as the goods are made in UK....... uproar. The British public have -made there own beds-, now have to lie in them. We buy all the cheap Chinese stuff and wonder why the wealth of the country shifts to other parts of the world. The Chinese are starting to have problems now. Can´t flog the quantities of cheap goods to the -Europeans- any more because they have no money (we priced them out). So now we have to concentrate on being selfsuficiant. Make in China and sell in China, to keep the wheels rolling.. The French and Germans are tring to save as much as they can of the -whitey- insustrial -culture- They won´t succeed of course because once the novelty with BMW and Merc etc, wears off -in the east- and the eastern countries have just as good cars etc as, say the Germans, then they will pull he plug. -What´s in a name-

All the EU countries that are in Dire Straits now have been living of the EU -never, never- for years, now the bubble has burst. It ws only a matter of time.......

Partly I agree however it is a fact that the manufacturing element of a product is the least profitable one and the money is in design and marketing and branding.

However manufacturing does employ people and gives them a feeling of self worth so it isn't and shouldn't always be about the margin. I guess the politico's will argue that they tried to get us nice jobs and not boring prodcution line ones as we do the design etc and poorly paid Chinese do that bit.