Mr. Bates v Post Office - Page 5

MissMoppet · 13th January 2024, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolin

Kev the Panorama was 2015, but PO knew in 2003 that Horizon was duff,

Actually before that. The original Fujitsu program was designed for the Benefits Agency but they decided quite quickly that it was too full of holes so they ditched it. Along came the PO who wanted to put everything on computer - a reasonable aim - so IT firms were asked to submit proposals. Fujitsu bid and were the cheapest so they were taken on.

Incidentally I know someone whose job was to contract IT and he said Fujitsu were awful to deal with so it came as no surprise to him it all turned belly up.

macafee2 · 19th January 2024, 17:09

Fujitsu admissions shown on BBC news at the inquiry are staggering.
They knew there were bugs in the system but this was not disclosed at the prosecutions.

staggering, absolutely staggering

macafee2

torque2me · 22nd January 2024, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by macafee2

Fujitsu admissions shown on BBC news at the inquiry are staggering.
They knew there were bugs in the system but this was not disclosed at the prosecutions.

staggering, absolutely staggering

macafee2

There is bugs in ALL systems. Microsoft, IBM, Linux, Unix et al. It is how they are addressed that matters as well as the users to expect them. That is why in an earlier post of mine I said the Bench was out of their depth as they should have thrown out the assertion that there was no known bugs. And robust is a state of mind which may or may not apply to a system but it does not mean no bugs.
Kev

roverbarmy · 1st February 2024, 07:54

Derisory offer? Classic tactics of large entity versus the man in the street!

torque2me · 3rd February 2024, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverbarmy

Derisory offer? Classic tactics of large entity versus the man in the street!

Seems it is true, a leopard does not change it's spots. ;-)
Kev

KWIL · 3rd February 2024, 12:58

I have been watching the Enquiry live feed with my engineering and legal hat on. All witnesses on the Post Office side are a bunch of *******.

Not doing a proper job, full of assumptions etc.

Still many heads to fall.

gnu · 3rd February 2024, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by torque2me

There is bugs in ALL systems. Microsoft, IBM, Linux, Unix et al. It is how they are addressed that matters as well as the users to expect them. That is why in an earlier post of mine I said the Bench was out of their depth as they should have thrown out the assertion that there was no known bugs. And robust is a state of mind which may or may not apply to a system but it does not mean no bugs.
Kev

Agree. There will alway be bugs in complex software. A good reporting and rectification process is a must. Not recognising and doing this effectively is where the PO’s problems started.

VVC-Geeza · 3rd February 2024, 16:00

How do you compensate the family of a loved one who has taken their own life due to theworry and stress.It's outrageous the length of time it's taking to clear these poor people and pay them out.Governments should hang their heads in shame.As I've said before,how did it get to this stage in the first place when hundreds of of postmasters of previous good character suddenly become dishonest.It was absolutely obvious there must have been a common denominator.There was,Horizon.You couldn't make this up scandelous!

torque2me · 6th February 2024, 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVC-Geeza

How do you compensate the family of a loved one who has taken their own life due to theworry and stress.It's outrageous the length of time it's taking to clear these poor people and pay them out.Governments should hang their heads in shame.As I've said before,how did it get to this stage in the first place when hundreds of of postmasters of previous good character suddenly become dishonest.It was absolutely obvious there must have been a common denominator.There was,Horizon.You couldn't make this up scandelous!

As MissMoppet stated, the original system was, I believe, designed to ensure absent fathers paid for their offspring. There was such a large number of "miscalculated" forced payments that the government agency scrapped the system.

I think the present government has acted as quickly as possible given the legal ramifications. Agreed it took the TV airing for it to become front bench requiring action rather than some back bencher voicing their concern to a dozen people on the comfy green seating having a snooze.

Also there is the issue that a percentage of postal staff did defraud the PO even before computerisation. So, in the stampede to clear everyone there will be the guilty getting a "free pass". I guess the "better to let one criminal go free than to convict an innocent person" criteria will have to be accepted.
Kev

Nantwich 75 · 6th February 2024, 13:16

BBC Radio 4 did a weekly programme on this issue about three years ago.

1st February 2024, 07:54	#44
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,071 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	Derisory offer? Classic tactics of large entity versus the man in the street! __________________ Oil in my veins!

3rd February 2024, 16:00	#48
VVC-Geeza This is my second home 2005 Connoisseur SE 1.8 Turbo,2004 45 1.8 Connoisseur and my beloved 1998 VVC Coupe. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Derby. Posts: 8,810 Thanks: 2,022 Thanked 1,016 Times in 739 Posts	How do you compensate the family of a loved one who has taken their own life due to theworry and stress.It's outrageous the length of time it's taking to clear these poor people and pay them out.Governments should hang their heads in shame.As I've said before,how did it get to this stage in the first place when hundreds of of postmasters of previous good character suddenly become dishonest.It was absolutely obvious there must have been a common denominator.There was,Horizon.You couldn't make this up scandelous! __________________

19th January 2024, 17:09	#42
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,967 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	Fujitsu admissions shown on BBC news at the inquiry are staggering. They knew there were bugs in the system but this was not disclosed at the prosecutions. staggering, absolutely staggering macafee2

3rd February 2024, 12:58	#46
KWIL Precise Rover 75 Tourer 2.5KV6 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Fleet Posts: 2,961 Thanks: 630 Thanked 617 Times in 480 Posts	I have been watching the Enquiry live feed with my engineering and legal hat on. All witnesses on the Post Office side are a bunch of *******. Not doing a proper job, full of assumptions etc. Still many heads to fall.

6th February 2024, 13:16	#50
Nantwich 75 Loves to post Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Nantwich Posts: 274 Thanks: 102 Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts	BBC Radio 4 did a weekly programme on this issue about three years ago.