The youth of today...

[Zeb]

..........

[Raistlin]

You 'avin' a dig at me or wot?

Looking at the media, "British young people" come across as something akin to rats. They're all the same, and they all need fixing. In 2005, a media survey found that 71% of stories about young people were negative, with one third focussing on crime. But 70% of our young people's behaviour is not negative, and our perceptions have become skewed.

Perceptive and basically true in my view. However I'd argue that only 70% is "not negative". Pro rata, based upon my experience, albeit subjectively, I'd make that 85 to 90%

Unfortunately, there are some... I'm sure you remember the bail application for the lad facing robbery, firearms and class A drug supply charges.

[Zeb]

Originally Posted by Raistlin

You 'avin' a dig at me or wot?



Perceptive and basically true in my view. However I'd argue that only 70% is "not negative". Pro rata, based upon my experience, albeit subjectively, I'd make that 85 to 90%

Unfortunately, there are some... I'm sure you remember the bail application for the lad facing robbery, firearms and class A drug supply charges.

A dig? No, of course not

I agree with you that the percentage whose behaviour is not negative is most probably higher....but that well depends upon the area one lives in!

And a you say, there are some.......

[tourerfogey]

The script above is typical in that it berates the action that is being taken against young people but doesn't provide any alternative ideas.

Zeb, I agree there are plenty of well mannered, honest and decent kids out there - employing youngsters aged from 13 years old myself I have first hand experience of this. Unfortunately there are also plenty of young thugs with no sense of decency or morals out there too.

The decent kids don't hang around on street corners wearing hoodies, partly because decent kids tend to have decent parents and decent parents don't let their kids hang around on street corners or dress in the fashion of the young thug.

[Pete]

As my Great-Grandmother used to say, "What we need is another war". And that was back in the late Seventies!

I think that shows that children and young adults have been considered to be troublesome for many years, but it's certainly become much more overt in recent times. Personally I don't pay much attention to the press coverage as it's 90% rubbish with 9.9% utter nonsense mixed in, but we all know that mud sticks.

Just one of the comments in the article I need to ask about Zeb. The part about Essex Police forward intelligence teams - I thought they dealt with known offenders in order to deliver continual harrassment on them into realising they were being observed and so to behave. Or is this something else the bizzies are up to?

[Zeb]

Pete, the police and local authorities now operate a system called 'Prevent and Deter'. This usually involves the local council, police and other organisations. Usually they concentrate on those known offenders, as you say, those with ASBOs but also those with ABCs.....however, some police forces are being more 'proactive' and focusing on any young people they suspect of potentially being up to no good, irrespective of past history (hence my Ant story response)...this, if done to adults, would cause an outcry...

TF, I will post a response once I have had me curry

[Raistlin]

Oddly enough, I have just finished a rather tasty Balti

Originally Posted by tourerfogey

The script above is typical in that it berates the action that is being taken against young people but doesn't provide any alternative ideas.

I think the lack of alternatives is because the writer's view is that there isn't anything to take action against.

Young children are becoming involved in the Criminal Justice system for "offences" which in the past would have been regarded as mere pranks and childish high spirits.

I tend to agree with the writer when she suggests that young people are demonized, as a group, with the cynical view that the "good one" is the exception.

They are, generally, gregarious and are developing social skills within their peer group which eventually branches out as confidence is gained and, more importantly, trust is expanded beyond their peers.

I also do not see the hoodie as a badge of thuggery. It is surely, a fashion accessory and is also, sadly, a place for the confused, shy, and fearful adolescent to hide when their social skills are not sufficient for them to handle certain situations with aplomb.

It is also supremely practical, vouched for by many of my post graduate students, who, having served in Iraq, some with distinction and decoration, are in their early twenties and could hardly be called either youths or thugs.

I can well remember when I was criticised and ostracised by those of a more senior generation for my dress which, as I recall, consisted of jeans with the outside leg seam ripped open and material inserted to make "Loons", long hair, and, to my eternal shame, tank tops

Oh, and I know a great many "decent" kids from "decent" families who wear hoodies and congregate in groups TF

I also know some young people whom it would be my wish never to meet in the streets, hoodies or not.

[stevemac]

Originally Posted by Zeb

According to a new report from the UK's children's commissioners, our young people are not becoming increasingly criminal; our society is simply treating them like they are. The report states that whilst crime committed by children fell between 2002 and 2006, the numbers being criminalised went up by over a quarter.

Unfortunately it seems to be the norm now to fudge the stats to what the gov't wants us to hear. I would be VERY surprised if this was actually true. There is probably less REPORTED crime because there seems little point in doing so now! as the police are, quite frankly, incapable of handling the volume of crime. My wife started her teaching in a "very good" school in Guildford. After 6 months she quit because she was sworn at, had things thrown at her and the pupils used their mobiles in class. There was no discipline in the school and the Head was not interested. That was 10 years ago, but I was talking to an NQT a few days ago who did her training there and it's still the same.
Whilst I don't WANT to say "it was better in my day" but I can not think of a single instance on a teacher being sworn at in my school during the time I was there 35 years ago. And this was a 1000+ comprehensive.
Whilst you might not think that throwing things at a teacher is a crime, it is just a short step from it.

OK Victor Meldrew rant over

[Raistlin]

Originally Posted by stevemac

Whilst you might not think that throwing things at a teacher is a crime, it is just a short step from it.

At the school I went to, the best RC Grammar school in the North East of England, it was the teachers who threw things at the pupils

[Zeb]

Oh dear...lots of different things to pick up on here....better start with TF!
I have to say Raistlin has put the argument better than I could have myself Nevertheless, I would add that where the ne'erdowells amongst our youth do get into bother the Youth Justice system and the supporting organisations would seem to differ considerably across the country....for example, where I am based in Derbyshire the local Youth Offending Team now ensure all young offenders who have reports written for the court will come via my good self to assess them for training / education / employment...and all those with supervision orders etc. also come via me to ensure that they will be gainfully busied. The reality being, that for many of the ones that do get in bother, if they were occupied it would not have happened....there will however remain a very small hard core for whom a change of attitude / environment / mindset will have little impact, but, for the majority, they can be steered in a more productive direction in spite of parents / peers / drugs / alcohol etc...
However, as said, this approach is but one being used.

Equally, simple solutions to avoid potential problems exist...eg. re-invent the wheel...youth clubs! Run by young people for young people....the fact is the vast majority have nowhere to 'hang out' safely. Another solution, change the policies of employers and insurance companies that mean vast numbers of young people who want jobs cannot apply for them because they are not 18...so they are forced to do things they do not want to do...or not...

Kids are kids, they have not changed greatly from when we were kids, what has changed is the attitudes towards them...sadly we now live in a deeply anti-child / young person society that persistently rejects this age group and is then full of righteous indignation when it, in turn is rejected by the young people....

*Reminder to self...do not wear hoodie top when in Hedge End...*