Superlock by button switch

Rsnail · 9th May 2018, 21:26

Hello, is there any method to get the car to superlock when pressing the lock switch inside the car? Maybe with toaf or connecting some BCU wires together? I need this for a keyless entry module, if I connect the wire responsible for locking of the module to the locking switch wire inside the car, I can indeed lock the car (not superlock it) with the key that comes with the new module, but then I don't have the alarm activated if the car is not superlocked, hence my question.

Mike Noc · 9th May 2018, 22:31

Superlocking is independent of the alarm, and is activated as standard only with the remote handset - along with the volumetric alarm, if fitted.

With the car super locked, the internal handles will not open the doors.

If you lock the car with the key then the perimeter alarm (doors, boot and bonnet) is activated, but the volumetric alarm is not.

The interior switch, as you say, just locks and unlocks the doors.

You could splice into the loom going to the driver's door - there are two normally open microswitches (one for locking and the other for unlocking) that ground the BCU signal wires.

That would lock the doors and activate the perimeter alarm.

Rsnail · 10th May 2018, 09:33

I have no volumetric alarm fitted, so my questions now are:

1. If splicing to the interior switch at the bcu side, is the perimeter alarm also going to activate?
2. When finding which wires ground the BCU signal at the driver's door side loom and splicing into them, is it the same as splicing into the interior switch?
3. Which wires are responsible for superlocking, as far as I know, when you press lock on the original key fob, the RF receiver in the car receives the signal, decodes it, and "spreads" it to the responsible "superlockin" wires, which ones are those so that I can ground or give them 12v when needed?

I'm asking all of these because with my new system, I want to keep the original car alarm when locking with the new key fob provided by the module, and for this I need to activate the perimeter alarm, and it would also be nice to be able to superlock the car so that they can't be opened from inside of the car.

clf · 10th May 2018, 12:09

I don't know if you have considered it, but the super locking as I understand it, is not enabled via the interior switch as a safety measure. The door can be opened in the event of an electrical failure, say, a fire for instance. If all electrics fail during a fire, then exiting the car can only be done via breaking a window.

However if you are prepared for that, then maybe enabling robe locking. I am not sure, but would guess that that would do what you wish, without the faff of wiring. Although you wouldn't use the button on the console, rather the remote, and still be able to start the car.

Plus it could be switched back off easily, should you wish to sell the car on.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

Rsnail · 10th May 2018, 19:55

As I said, I need to do this just to be able to keep the car factory alarm with my new keyless entry module, if I'd knew which wires are responsible for superlocking, I would splice into all of them and wire them correctly, but I don't, so that's why I'm asking if I can turn the interior switch to a superlocking switch somehow that would make the perimetric alarm armed and also make the doors not being able to be opened from the inside, and if I need to temporarily lock doors from the inside, which I have never done and never will, I have the pins on every door

Of course, it would be easier I guess if I could find each wire that is responsible with the superlocking and splice directly into them so that I can keepe the original status of the interior switch

Mike Noc · 10th May 2018, 22:47

By its very nature, the security system on the car is built so as to make tampering with it as difficult as possible.

I'm no expert, but I can't see how you can easily modify the interior locking switch to activate superlocking, as this is done solely by the BCU after decoding the signal from the remote transmitters in the key fobs, via an RF receiver, and after it has compared it to a stored rolling code within the BCU.

You could hard wire into all of the door motors to activate super locking, and hard wire into the driver's door lock to lock the doors and activate the perimeter alarm.

clf · 10th May 2018, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rsnail

As I said, I need to do this just to be able to keep the car factory alarm with my new keyless entry module, if I'd knew which wires are responsible for superlocking, I would splice into all of them and wire them correctly, but I don't, so that's why I'm asking if I can turn the interior switch to a superlocking switch somehow that would make the perimetric alarm armed and also make the doors not being able to be opened from the inside, and if I need to temporarily lock doors from the inside, which I have never done and never will, I have the pins on every door

Of course, it would be easier I guess if I could find each wire that is responsible with the superlocking and splice directly into them so that I can keepe the original status of the interior switch

ah I missed the keyless entry module bit. But if I understand what you have described, you plan to use the console button to superlock as you exit the car? If that is right, I imagine things could become a little more complicated. Now I may be wrong, (explanation HERE). If you press the console button to superlock, you wont be able to open the door. If you open the door THEN press the button, they call it a mislock, and none of the doors will lock, and nor will the superlocking activate nor the alarm.

I do not know how the keyless modules work, but would have imagined that a universal retrofit kit would have been designed to 'learn' (looking them up, they say self learning) the remote fob button codes, and automatically copy the signal to the car as you enter or leave it. I imagine then, that it has to 'learn' an open and a close button, ie it learns two button presses. Since our cars have anti hijack option, as well as the single point and multi point entry options on the remote ie 3 button codes to 'learn', I wonder then if these are confusing the remotes. (I wonder if multi point entry and anti hijack were disabled would this resolve your issue?)

Incidentally, if I recall correctly, superlocking is customisable to an extent via T4 and TOAF, in that it can be set to superlock via the key.

I am sorry for all the spitballing, and questions. I am curious to retrofitting technology, although I am not a fan of keyless entry. I did a quick search on universal retro fitting keyless entry, and found little. There was a question asked though on Pistonheads a few years ago with issues on them, but unfortunately no answers.

Rsnail · 11th May 2018, 12:27

The system is easy to understand, you have a control box and wires, I connect one of the wires of the box to the lock, and anoter one to the unlock wires of the interior switch (the ones responsible for those actions) and when I press the lock buton the NEW key fob that comes with the system, it sends a short to ground for example to the unlock wire of the car if I pressed the unlock button (you have to connect negative or positive signal wires depending on your car, for 75s it is negative), the signal comes from a wire that is connected to a ground (or positive, as said) in the car, so it would be a normal task of exiting the car, closing the door and then SUPERLOCKING it with the new key fob. And no, they are not designed to learn, it is just simple electrics and current flowing through wires (or not).

And mike, yes, you are right, but THEN, after the signal is decoded, electrical signal is sent to the responsible locking and superlocking wires, and what I want to know is which are all the wires responsible for this, for example, alarm, door locks, and I don't know, maybe superlocking locks also, etc. Are there also 2 different motors for a door? One for locking and one for superlocking? Or is it just one with 2 positions or the hell knows, or is the actual superlocking activated by some sort of relay inside the door or inside the BCU?

Nick Greg · 11th May 2018, 13:16

I would imagine any of these ideas would have repercussions regarding your insurance!

simondhopkins · 11th May 2018, 13:49

You can activate superlock in toaf on using the key in the door, so if you get the wiring diagram of the keylock, you could set the module to set a lock pulse twice to activate superlock.

Just a thought.

9th May 2018, 21:26	#1
Rsnail Gets stuck in Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: May 2015 Location: Essen (Oldenburg), Germany Posts: 626 Thanks: 59 Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts	Superlock by button switch Hello, is there any method to get the car to superlock when pressing the lock switch inside the car? Maybe with toaf or connecting some BCU wires together? I need this for a keyless entry module, if I connect the wire responsible for locking of the module to the locking switch wire inside the car, I can indeed lock the car (not superlock it) with the key that comes with the new module, but then I don't have the alarm activated if the car is not superlocked, hence my question. Last edited by Rsnail; 9th May 2018 at 21:30..

10th May 2018, 12:09	#4
clf This is my second home MG ZT CDTi Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: carrick Posts: 7,859 Thanks: 3,494 Thanked 2,657 Times in 1,973 Posts	I don't know if you have considered it, but the super locking as I understand it, is not enabled via the interior switch as a safety measure. The door can be opened in the event of an electrical failure, say, a fire for instance. If all electrics fail during a fire, then exiting the car can only be done via breaking a window. However if you are prepared for that, then maybe enabling robe locking. I am not sure, but would guess that that would do what you wish, without the faff of wiring. Although you wouldn't use the button on the console, rather the remote, and still be able to start the car. Plus it could be switched back off easily, should you wish to sell the car on. Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk __________________ It is not gloss primer .............. it is duct tape silver! Last edited by clf; 10th May 2018 at 12:16..

11th May 2018, 12:27	#8
Rsnail Gets stuck in Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: May 2015 Location: Essen (Oldenburg), Germany Posts: 626 Thanks: 59 Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts	The system is easy to understand, you have a control box and wires, I connect one of the wires of the box to the lock, and anoter one to the unlock wires of the interior switch (the ones responsible for those actions) and when I press the lock buton the NEW key fob that comes with the system, it sends a short to ground for example to the unlock wire of the car if I pressed the unlock button (you have to connect negative or positive signal wires depending on your car, for 75s it is negative), the signal comes from a wire that is connected to a ground (or positive, as said) in the car, so it would be a normal task of exiting the car, closing the door and then SUPERLOCKING it with the new key fob. And no, they are not designed to learn, it is just simple electrics and current flowing through wires (or not). And mike, yes, you are right, but THEN, after the signal is decoded, electrical signal is sent to the responsible locking and superlocking wires, and what I want to know is which are all the wires responsible for this, for example, alarm, door locks, and I don't know, maybe superlocking locks also, etc. Are there also 2 different motors for a door? One for locking and one for superlocking? Or is it just one with 2 positions or the hell knows, or is the actual superlocking activated by some sort of relay inside the door or inside the BCU? Last edited by Rsnail; 11th May 2018 at 12:41..

9th May 2018, 22:31	#2
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,549 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Superlocking is independent of the alarm, and is activated as standard only with the remote handset - along with the volumetric alarm, if fitted. With the car super locked, the internal handles will not open the doors. If you lock the car with the key then the perimeter alarm (doors, boot and bonnet) is activated, but the volumetric alarm is not. The interior switch, as you say, just locks and unlocks the doors. You could splice into the loom going to the driver's door - there are two normally open microswitches (one for locking and the other for unlocking) that ground the BCU signal wires. That would lock the doors and activate the perimeter alarm.

10th May 2018, 09:33	#3
Rsnail Gets stuck in Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: May 2015 Location: Essen (Oldenburg), Germany Posts: 626 Thanks: 59 Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts	I have no volumetric alarm fitted, so my questions now are: 1. If splicing to the interior switch at the bcu side, is the perimeter alarm also going to activate? 2. When finding which wires ground the BCU signal at the driver's door side loom and splicing into them, is it the same as splicing into the interior switch? 3. Which wires are responsible for superlocking, as far as I know, when you press lock on the original key fob, the RF receiver in the car receives the signal, decodes it, and "spreads" it to the responsible "superlockin" wires, which ones are those so that I can ground or give them 12v when needed? I'm asking all of these because with my new system, I want to keep the original car alarm when locking with the new key fob provided by the module, and for this I need to activate the perimeter alarm, and it would also be nice to be able to superlock the car so that they can't be opened from inside of the car.

10th May 2018, 19:55	#5
Rsnail Gets stuck in Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: May 2015 Location: Essen (Oldenburg), Germany Posts: 626 Thanks: 59 Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts	As I said, I need to do this just to be able to keep the car factory alarm with my new keyless entry module, if I'd knew which wires are responsible for superlocking, I would splice into all of them and wire them correctly, but I don't, so that's why I'm asking if I can turn the interior switch to a superlocking switch somehow that would make the perimetric alarm armed and also make the doors not being able to be opened from the inside, and if I need to temporarily lock doors from the inside, which I have never done and never will, I have the pins on every door Of course, it would be easier I guess if I could find each wire that is responsible with the superlocking and splice directly into them so that I can keepe the original status of the interior switch

10th May 2018, 22:47	#6
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,549 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	By its very nature, the security system on the car is built so as to make tampering with it as difficult as possible. I'm no expert, but I can't see how you can easily modify the interior locking switch to activate superlocking, as this is done solely by the BCU after decoding the signal from the remote transmitters in the key fobs, via an RF receiver, and after it has compared it to a stored rolling code within the BCU. You could hard wire into all of the door motors to activate super locking, and hard wire into the driver's door lock to lock the doors and activate the perimeter alarm.

11th May 2018, 13:16	#9
Nick Greg Posted a thing or two Honda Insight Hybrid Join Date: May 2015 Location: Brighouse Posts: 1,157 Thanks: 691 Thanked 424 Times in 280 Posts	I would imagine any of these ideas would have repercussions regarding your insurance!

11th May 2018, 13:49	#10
simondhopkins Loves to post Vauxhall Vectra C Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Burnley Posts: 445 Thanks: 179 Thanked 88 Times in 62 Posts	You can activate superlock in toaf on using the key in the door, so if you get the wiring diagram of the keylock, you could set the module to set a lock pulse twice to activate superlock. Just a thought.