Fuel prices and our cars.

[coolguy]

Originally Posted by Heddy

It's sad really, especially if your Rover is your daily driver. They really are classics now, to be preserved and used minimally. .

I am hoping that my 6 (4x75 and 2xZT) will see me out!

[Lancpudn]

Originally Posted by Olde faithful

100% AGREE, ICe cars are vynl records ,Battery cars are short lived CDs.....streaming are Hydrogen... exactly correct... battery cars are a FAD and will not cut it

Not sure how you see BEV's being a fad!!! There are currently 38 EV battery gigafactories across the UK /EU under construction or in the planning stage right now,

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/07/03...gigafactories/


There are three in the UK, One next to Nissan's car plant in Sunderland, Britishvolt in Blyrh Northumberland which Aston Martin are heavily involved with their upcoming new EV models There's a huge battery gigafactory that's just recently got the nod to be built in the west Midlands which is a joint venture between Coventry council & Coventry airport. Jaguar will be using those batteries in it's upcoming BEV's when it transitions to electric in 2024. https://www.edie.net/news/8/Coventry...-the-go-ahead/


The new cobalt free LFP batteries are extremely reliable nowadays with BYD's Blade battery packs now warranted for ten years & are far less susceptible to fire risk even when the traction pack is punctured. https://www.autoconnectedcar.com/202...hen-punctured/


How long is it going to be before we have an odd/even number alternate driving days like they have in Italy with calls for drastic cuts in private car usage to reduce emissions even further? https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/env...ro-says-report

[polinsteve]

Originally Posted by StewartIngram

Tank is a donut in the spare wheel well, so the spare wheel sits on the floor. No real bother as I don't carry junk around with me.
Far more inconvenient is the uncomfortable driver's seat. Sitting on a fatter wallet is uncomfortable!

Not too intrusive then. Perhaps you need a swimming ring for the driver's seat

Originally Posted by StewartIngram

Tank is a donut in the spare wheel well, so the spare wheel sits on the floor. No real bother as I don't carry junk around with me.
Far more inconvenient is the uncomfortable driver's seat. Sitting on a fatter wallet is uncomfortable!

Is the wallet too fat to fit in the cubby under the cup holder?

[Lancpudn]

[guru]

I love that the default argument for the anti-EV brigade is always the nonsense about battery packs needing to be replaced every x number of years. There are a few issues with EV ownership but battery replacement isn't one of them. Yes early Nissan Leaf's suffered from this problem with their non-thermally managed packs however every other manufacturer used water cooling to reduce degradation which means the batteries last for a lot longer. Based on the first 24k of driving ours the battery should last around 610,000 miles before it needs replacement.

The biggest actual issue for EV's is charging away from home and the government needs to address how people without a driveway charge their cars. For those of us lucky enough to have a driveway it's much more convenient being able to charge at home rather then having the faff and expense of having to visit a petrol station every week.

[polinsteve]

The trouble is, the manufactures emphasise the maximum range in ideal conditions. Use of heating, lighting and even the radio affect the range. Also, it is stated that to get maximum life, the battery should only be charged up to 80% maximum and kept above 50%, so following the recommended guidelines we are talking about a mere 30% of the maximum, in your case, to get maximum life out of the battery pack, a recommended range of 80-90 miles.

As with most fuel economy figures, in the real world they are nowhere near advertised "up to" figures. The cost to replace the battery pack in your car for instance, is about £4600 plus any labour costs. towards the end of the 7 year warranty, the 2nd hand market will most probably be badly hit which I expect to severely impact the lifespan. Additionally, the more electric vehicles the greater the demand and therefore prices of the rare metals required will increase beyond inflation.
Depreciation is estimated to run at about 67% after just 3 years, extrapolate that to 7 years when a replacement battery pack would be a distinct possibility, the costs to keep the car on the road will be unrealistic. The perks on offer at the moment, for example road pricing, will be a long gone distant dream, bearing in mind the government is already talking of income lost with the "get people to go electric" costs.

[Rickoshea]

Originally Posted by Olde faithful

100% AGREE, ICe cars are vynl records ,Battery cars are short lived CDs.....streaming are Hydrogen... exactly correct... battery cars are a FAD and will not cut it

Dear Olde Fossil, I agree that ICE cars are like vinyl records - tedious, delicate and a pain to use. Those who like them probably still use cheques and fill them in with quill pens. I fear EVs will not suffer from the effects of power outages. These will occur at peak demand times such as working hours and the evening rush home. Most of us recharge our cars overnight when the electricity costs are at their lowest because the demand is also at its lowest. I also think you will find that the pumps that dispense the devil's fuel are powered by electricity so hardly immune to power outages. Finally if the damage done by the fumes from your cars was not doing enough damage to our children, I see in the papers today that a third of diesel in the UK comes from Russia so you are helping support Putin as you drive around and may hit shortages long before the power outages arrive!

[guru]

Originally Posted by polinsteve

The trouble is, the manufactures emphasise the maximum range in ideal conditions. Use of heating, lighting and even the radio affect the range. Also, it is stated that to get maximum life, the battery should only be charged up to 80% maximum and kept above 50%, so following the recommended guidelines we are talking about a mere 30% of the maximum, in your case, to get maximum life out of the battery pack, a recommended range of 80-90 miles.

As with most fuel economy figures, in the real world they are nowhere near advertised "up to" figures. The cost to replace the battery pack in your car for instance, is about £4600 plus any labour costs. towards the end of the 7 year warranty, the 2nd hand market will most probably be badly hit which I expect to severely impact the lifespan. Additionally, the more electric vehicles the greater the demand and therefore prices of the rare metals required will increase beyond inflation.
Depreciation is estimated to run at about 67% after just 3 years, extrapolate that to 7 years when a replacement battery pack would be a distinct possibility, the costs to keep the car on the road will be unrealistic. The perks on offer at the moment, for example road pricing, will be a long gone distant dream, bearing in mind the government is already talking of income lost with the "get people to go electric" costs.

Yes except for the fact that depreciation figure doesn't bear any relation to reality. According the the calculator that gives the 67% figure my 1.5 year old ZS with 24k on the clock should be worth £18,101 on a forecourt however the very cheapest 20 plate on Autotrader which has 10,000 miles more then mine is currently £21,399.

Again you also come back to the myth about battery life but after 24k mine is still at 97.7% state of health so I'm very unlikely to need a new battery anytime soon. Indeed there are Tesla's running round with hundreds of thousands of mines on the original battery. Fact is my X5 is MUCH more likely to need a new engine and gearbox before the ZS needs a battery and the chances of getting a new engine and box for less then £4600 for that are very slim.

I do think that the government will at some point end the free ride that EV owners will get but that could be 5 - 10 years in the future and up until then we're getting very cheap motoring.

If they make an electric car that can be driven like a proper manual (including a foot operated clutch) I may be interested. For me, driving is about more than getting from A to B, it's a pleasurable activity which I intend to enjoy for as long as I am able. Near silent automatic cars just don't interest me.