Go Back   The 75 and ZT Owners Club Forums > Social Forums > Social Forum
Register FAQ Image Gallery Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20th June 2022, 11:20   #91
another_clean_sheet
Posted a thing or two
 
another_clean_sheet's Avatar
 
Rover 75 CDTI Tourer

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Great Bardfield, nr Braintree
Posts: 1,409
Thanks: 303
Thanked 436 Times in 317 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simondi View Post
Yet our contribution to the UK is massive.
Shame so many of you appear to want rid of us

That as it may be but you have got Sturgeon saying how much better she would be without us. In the end, you get fed up with her repeating it again and again and therefore say go on your merry way then.
another_clean_sheet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2022, 11:27   #92
Simondi
Regional Secretary
 
Simondi's Avatar
 
MGTF, MG ZS EV Exclusive

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kilwinning
Posts: 14,046
Thanks: 1,460
Thanked 3,563 Times in 1,857 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by another_clean_sheet View Post
That as it may be but you have got Sturgeon saying how much better she would be without us. In the end, you get fed up with her repeating it again and again and therefore say go on your merry way then.
Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You get fed up hearing her message, we get fed up hearing the ' you can't survive without us' and round and round it goes.
Truth and facts get list in the mire and all of us suffer, on both sides of the border
Simondi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2022, 11:44   #93
another_clean_sheet
Posted a thing or two
 
another_clean_sheet's Avatar
 
Rover 75 CDTI Tourer

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Great Bardfield, nr Braintree
Posts: 1,409
Thanks: 303
Thanked 436 Times in 317 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simondi View Post
Absolutely, it cuts both ways. You get fed up hearing her message, we get fed up hearing the ' you can't survive without us' and round and round it goes.
Truth and facts get list in the mire and all of us suffer, on both sides of the border

I think that the majority of England would vote for indepence. Labour would campaign against it as they need the SDP votes for a possible majority in the House of Commons.
another_clean_sheet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2022, 14:15   #94
Torqueofthedevil
Avid contributor
 
Wedgwood Blue 75 Connoisseur saloon, Duotone 75 Connoisseur saloon. Former ZT190 and ZT260 owner

Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Salop
Posts: 145
Thanks: 367
Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borg Warner View Post
The SNP have already been promising how fantastic independence will be and blaming Westminster for all the problems, past, present and future affecting Scotland and rUK. They are playing the media card a treat and there's nothing anyone can do to stop them.

For those on faceache I suggest having a read of the SNP's page, some of the comments are concerning.
*The Leave side have already been promising how fantastic independence will be and blaming Brussels for all the problems, past, present and future affecting Britain and rEurope. They are playing the media card a treat and there's nothing anyone can do to stop them.

For those on faceache I suggest having a read of the Leave side's page, some of the comments are concerning.

= guess what, it's a remarkably similar situation!

[/QUOTE]

Please excuse the snip, the rest of the post was effectively a proxy anti B... rant and there have been enough of those over the last six years! Some will never accept the 'voice of the people' yet still profess to know better.
You presume quite wrongly! My posts of that time are still available on here!

Anyway, the EU collectively and in accordance with their rules voted en masse and did everything they possibly could, by a variety of dodgy means, to sink that particular ship with all hands!

That was possibly the biggest referendum there has ever been considering the numbers involved, together with the EU's visceral hatred on show. Not for the people in the UK, rather the brass neck of the UK trying to determine its own future - arrived at by yet another referendum that was decisive. To quote the EU as a comparator and to sneer at earlier events is neither relevant nor helpful!
[/QUOTE]

Wraymond...if you feel that all members of one union should vote in this referendum on separation, how could you not have wanted the same in another separation referendum? And if you think the EU made it awkward for Britain to leave, do you think London will be all sweetness and light if and when the Scottish 'divorce settlement' is being negotiated?!

For the record, I really don't give two hoots about the EU either way. For my family, and in my line of work, Britain's relationship with the EU makes very little difference. I did vote Remain, because the promised benefits of leaving were obviously either grossly inflated or entirely fictitious, but you wouldn't have found me crying afterwards or calling for another vote - like mbev, I prefer to look forward not back. That said, the nonsense spouted by both sides in the run-up to the Brexit referendum, and the ongoing wrangling six years after the vote, are a perfect example of what can we expect if and when Scotland holds another vote to leave the UK - which is why it is an entirely relevant and helpful comparison. Are you seriously claiming otherwise?

Last edited by Torqueofthedevil; 20th June 2022 at 14:26..
Torqueofthedevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2022, 15:00   #95
Borg Warner
I really should get out more.......
 
None

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2,578
Thanks: 494
Thanked 657 Times in 402 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqueofthedevil View Post
*The Leave side have already been promising how fantastic independence will be and blaming Brussels for all the problems, past, present and future affecting Britain and rEurope. They are playing the media card a treat and there's nothing anyone can do to stop them.

For those on faceache I suggest having a read of the Leave side's page, some of the comments are concerning.

= guess what, it's a remarkably similar situation!
Please excuse the snip, the rest of the post was effectively a proxy anti B... rant and there have been enough of those over the last six years! Some will never accept the 'voice of the people' yet still profess to know better.
You presume quite wrongly! My posts of that time are still available on here!

Anyway, the EU collectively and in accordance with their rules voted en masse and did everything they possibly could, by a variety of dodgy means, to sink that particular ship with all hands!

That was possibly the biggest referendum there has ever been considering the numbers involved, together with the EU's visceral hatred on show. Not for the people in the UK, rather the brass neck of the UK trying to determine its own future - arrived at by yet another referendum that was decisive. To quote the EU as a comparator and to sneer at earlier events is neither relevant nor helpful!
[/QUOTE]

Wraymond...if you feel that all members of one union should vote in this referendum on separation, how could you not have wanted the same in another separation referendum? And if you think the EU made it awkward for Britain to leave, do you think London will be all sweetness and light if and when the Scottish 'divorce settlement' is being negotiated?!

For the record, I really don't give two hoots about the EU either way. For my family, and in my line of work, Britain's relationship with the EU makes very little difference. I did vote Remain, because the promised benefits of leaving were obviously either grossly inflated or entirely fictitious, but you wouldn't have found me crying afterwards or calling for another vote - like mbev, I prefer to look forward not back. That said, the nonsense spouted by both sides in the run-up to the Brexit referendum, and the ongoing wrangling six years after the vote, are a perfect example of what can we expect if and when Scotland holds another vote to leave the UK - which is why it is an entirely relevant and helpful comparison. Are you seriously claiming otherwise?[/QUOTE]


Sorry I don't know what you mean by proxy anti B vote?
Borg Warner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2022, 15:23   #96
Torqueofthedevil
Avid contributor
 
Wedgwood Blue 75 Connoisseur saloon, Duotone 75 Connoisseur saloon. Former ZT190 and ZT260 owner

Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Salop
Posts: 145
Thanks: 367
Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borg Warner View Post

Sorry I don't know what you mean by proxy anti B vote?
I'm not entirely sure either, that was a quotation from Wraymond in post #69 (NB 'rant' not 'vote'). I think he was assuming that I have an axe to grind regarding the B word, whereas all I was doing was pointing out the similarities of the mooted Scottish referendum with the situation leading up to (and, by extrapolation, since) the Brexit one. Whatever one's views on either, it is hard to deny the obvious parallels!
Torqueofthedevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2022, 17:59   #97
Mick Brownhill
Regional Secretary, Yorkshire & North Lincolnshire
 
75 Saloon

Join Date: May 2022
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 335
Thanks: 119
Thanked 52 Times in 28 Posts
Default Scotland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simondi View Post
I don't disagree.
Personally I think the answer is to go more down the line of a federal state. Each part of the UK raises its own taxes and spends as appropriate. National defence and foreign policy remains as UK etc.
How do you sort out who contributes what to foreign and defense spending?
Mick Brownhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2022, 18:29   #98
Borg Warner
I really should get out more.......
 
None

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2,578
Thanks: 494
Thanked 657 Times in 402 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Brownhill View Post
How do you sort out who contributes what to foreign and defense spending?
Base it on percentage of population maybe?

Similar to what happens currently I would imagine.
Borg Warner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2022, 18:35   #99
wraymond
I will find or make a way
 
wraymond's Avatar
 
75 Auto 2.5 SE

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Westcliff on Sea
Posts: 5,165
Thanks: 423
Thanked 1,680 Times in 1,014 Posts
Default

Acknowledgements to earlier posts, I seem to have over-egged it!

There is a running theme of comparing earlier events with a mooted vote re Scotland. That battle is won and lost. We should get over it! At the very least, comments using one as comparable for the other are invalid. I just don’t see the connection.

There is a glaring anomaly:

To whit: leaving the EU with the whole of the UK voting because it affects the whole population? Including separate self-governing democratic entities?

That against one member of that combination voting to leave this established state by limiting the vote to a tiny minority party, primarily because of a reasonably suspected anti-English aversion? That, in my view, is corrupt. Oh, and just by the way, undemocratic.
__________________
member no. 235

Last edited by wraymond; 23rd June 2022 at 10:28.. Reason: Advice regarding rule 15 gratefully received.
wraymond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2022, 18:58   #100
another_clean_sheet
Posted a thing or two
 
another_clean_sheet's Avatar
 
Rover 75 CDTI Tourer

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Great Bardfield, nr Braintree
Posts: 1,409
Thanks: 303
Thanked 436 Times in 317 Posts
Default

Foreign policy is the remit of the UK government which is why the decision to be in or out of the EU had to be voted by the whole of the UK. The same as when we voted to join the Common Market.
another_clean_sheet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright © 2006-2023, The Rover 75 & MG ZT Owners Club Ltd