Independence for Scotland

[victorgte]

I'm very late to this thread so I'm responding a bit blind to previous pages.

SNP has been in charge of Scotland since 2007 with a working majority since 2011.
They have full control of all policy except Defence and Foreign Policy.

Why then do they blame Westminster for all their problems? If I lived there I would be knocking on Ms Sturgeon's door telling her to pull her finger out. SNP may well be in charge but results will show that many Scots vote for the other main parties too.
Democracy is not perfect but if the last 15 years are not to the liking of the electorate, they need to reconsider where they place their vote and where they place the blame for the perceived problems.

My 10 peneth says independence is a mistake both politically and economically. It's also a romantic notion to be free when you are currently shackled by the very party that governs you.
Problem is Ms Sturgeon will be long retired when it comes to sweeping up the mess.

[Borg Warner]

It is, in part, deflection. When things aren't quite going to plan for people, they try to divert attention away from themselves and the subject matter. The subject is irrelevant.

Our elected leaders are masters at it, it's in their DNA, they are helped by the press too.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by victorgte

I'm very late to this thread so I'm responding a bit blind to previous pages.

SNP has been in charge of Scotland since 2007 with a working majority since 2011.
They have full control of all policy except Defence and Foreign Policy.

..........

This is not correct. They had no control over whether Scotland remained in the EU or not - which is probably the most fundamental change of the past 10 years.

[another_clean_sheet]

Originally Posted by MSS

This is not correct. They had no control over whether Scotland remained in the EU or not - which is probably the most fundamental change of the past 10 years.

That is because membership of the EU is part of foreign policy and not part of Scotland's remit as stated by Victorgte and myself in an earlier post.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by another_clean_sheet

That is because membership of the EU is part of foreign policy and not part of Scotland's remit as stated by Victorgte and myself in an earlier post.

Or is foreign policy driven by whether member of the EU or not?

I don't blieve it is quite as black and white as suggested!

A percentage of Scots want to take control of their destiny - a bit like a large population thought they voted to 'take back control' not very long ago. This is not about whether the SNP has been doing a good job of exercising the control that they have or not.

Surely, to deny them the opportunity to have a vote on the matter is undemocratic?

[another_clean_sheet]

Originally Posted by MSS

Or is foreign policy driven by whether member of the EU or not?

I don't blieve it is quite as black and white as suggested!

A percentage of Scots want to take control of their destiny - a bit like a large population thought they voted to 'take back control' not very long ago. This is not about whether the SNP has been doing a good job of exercising the control that they have or not.

Surely, to deny them the opportunity to have a vote on the matter is undemocratic?

It is as black and white as that. We signed an international treaty when we joined the EU and then signed further international treaties whilst members eg Maastrict. When we left the EU we signed another international document.

Things like trade agreements are international and therefore part of UK foreign policy.
Foreign policy is not driven by whether we are part of the EU or not but dealings with the EU is part of foreign policy.
"Surely, to deny them the opportunity to have a vote on the matter is undemocratic". We gave them the opportunity to have a referendum in 2014 which was agreed by both parties as once in a lifetime vote which although is not definitve could be taken to be 20+ years. You cannot just vote every year until you get a result which you find acceptable.

[MSS]

Why can the Scots not have a vote every 3-5 years?

We do for other important matters?

[another_clean_sheet]

Originally Posted by MSS

Why can the Scots not have a vote every 3-5 years?

We do for other important matters?

You mean that they could come in and out of being part of the UK?

[MSS]

Originally Posted by another_clean_sheet

You mean that they could come in and out of being part of the UK?

Obviously they could not come back in once out, unless the UK was to invite them in and then Scotland could have a vote on rejoining. But currently, I don't see anything wrong with a ballot on independence every 3-5 years which is all we are debating.

Local democracy being exercised periodically is what we do as a norm.

[Borg Warner]

One of the many things a country needs is stability.

Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/23/same/