Independence for Scotland

[MSS]

There goes the idea of 4-5 year voting frequency for a government!

Trump would have liked that particular quote.

[wraymond]

All these things have not only a national consequence but an international consequence as well. To consider a divisive referendum every 4/5 years is an unhelpful impulse if you at all want to consider all the implications. It is the opposite of Government (with the necessary capital G) stability.

The cloak of so-called Independence in this case is illusory, if every time there is a change in governmental separate entities there is also an automatic right to renege on earlier commitments. Renegades come and go, what matters is stability of purpose.

National pride in the unity of purpose is an essential asset, not the instability of a minority (in the sense of a real national vote) either in the primary entity or the wider consideration of perceived nationalist idealism. Who would trade with a prospective partner that gains fewer votes (in terms of a total electorate) when that in itself implies ‘minority’ unless, of course, domination is covert? Subjugation is looming.

Where’s the pride in that ignominious surrender to a really huge international alleged 'partner'?

[stevestrat]

Trouble is the SNP has a vision of the future of Scotland and it ain't very realistic!

[Simondi]

So really the UK government has to find a way to convince the Scottish people that remaining in the UK is the best possible outcome.
I wonder if they, or anyone else for that matter, can put forward a positive case to remain which dose not revolve around saying how terrible things will be if we leave.
I hope so but I have my doubts. I've not seen anything yet

[Simondi]

Originally Posted by stevestrat

Trouble is the SNP has a vision of the future of Scotland and it ain't very realistic!

To be honest that looks like the picture that is painted for staying in the UK

[another_clean_sheet]

Originally Posted by Simondi

So really the UK government has to find a way to convince the Scottish people that remaining in the UK is the best possible outcome.
I wonder if they, or anyone else for that matter, can put forward a positive case to remain which dose not revolve around saying how terrible things will be if we leave.
I hope so but I have my doubts. I've not seen anything yet

It is the net difference between the positives and the negatives that it is important.
It is no good considering one without considering the other.

[MSS]

The problem with talk about stability is that unless the people have the opportunity to determine whether they wish to stay or leave, the situation invariably ends up in the sort of stability we have experienced in a few places around the world. The East of Ukraine is a recent example that comes to mind.

Stable marriages usually only occur when both parties feel that they can go their separate ways if either party so chooses.

Human nature being what it is, I suspect the Scots are more likely to want to stay within the union if they feel that they can exercise the vote to leave as and when they choose.

[another_clean_sheet]

Originally Posted by MSS

Human nature being what it is, I suspect the Scots are more likely to want to stay within the union if they feel that they can exercise the vote to leave as and when they choose.

But they cannot which is why Sturgeon is huffing and puffing.

[Simondi]

Originally Posted by another_clean_sheet

It is the net difference between the positives and the negatives that it is important.
It is no good considering one without considering the other.

Absolutely

A considered argument with pros and cons is needed.
I fear we won't have that as neither Holyrood and Westminster are not capable of such a thing

[Saga Lout]

Originally Posted by Simondi

So really the UK government has to find a way to convince the Scottish people that remaining in the UK is the best possible outcome.
I wonder if they, or anyone else for that matter, can put forward a positive case to remain which dose not revolve around saying how terrible things will be if we leave.
I hope so but I have my doubts. I've not seen anything yet

It'll come down to money and taxation, all the freebies will go and it'll be a harsh new reality. There won't be a currency backed by the bank of England, that's already been said, what will the value of a new currency be worth? It'll depend on economics and all the dreams of affluence will come crashing down. The services you currently have will be cut as Westminster money is stopped, that'll cause hardship on a massive scale and unemployment will rise, who will fund your social system? The facts are simple, Scotland doesn't make enough money to sustain itself as it is now, a bare bones economy will follow a leave vote and any dreams of joining the EU, in the wind. There will be many who simply stop trading with Scotland, it won't be worth the hassle of passports and border checks for trucks and trains, what price a train ticket between London and Glasgow, what % will be the Scottish fee be, who will check the passports? It's been made quite clear that if Scotland leaves they'll be left to it. See how popular she is then.