Rust Treatment

ardvark · 8th October 2016, 15:29

Getting round to treating the rust on me wheel arch.
Rust bubbles and paint lifting.
Question to members if I may?
What rust treatment have you used that has standed the test of time?
Rust killers, rust converters what ever.
ALL info gratefully recieved.

oswestryalex · 8th October 2016, 22:30

Hi there,
rust can be a real pain and depending how far it has gotten hold, it might be next to impossible to stop completely. However, rusting is an electrochemical process (bear with me!) You need the following 3 things for it to happen - water, oxygen and the catalytic agent or electrolyte. Eliminate any of those and you stop rust. So... first you remove all of the rust, and then some - there will be rust beyond where it is visible. I would take it 3cms or an inch beyond the obvious limits if at all feasible. Then use a rust inhibiting primer. I have tried the blue ones that theoretically convert the rust to something harmless and unreactive. For me they have not worked all that well. What has usually worked better for me is the Isopon Zinc 182 or equivalents. Zinc acts as what is called a 'sacrificial anode' and thus protects the steel onto which it is applied. It 'rusts' in preference to steel. You can get this stuff in spray tins as well as brush on. Use this as your primer. Then go over with the paint system, in thin multiple coats. You may need to sand down the zinc surface to the right consistency before applying your paint coats - and the lacquer if you have that as part of the paint system. If this is done under dry conditions you might well sort it out. Don't forget there are 2 sides to the sheet of metal you are treating - find out what is going on under the outer side too, or you may be wasting your efforts. Some people swear by infra red lamps to heat up and help cure and drive off water from the area being treated. If you have a garage with power where you can do the work and can hire these lamps, especially this time of the year, then do so. Once you achieve the desired results - keep a close eye on the area when washing and in general inspection to check that your repairs have worked OK. It's the old 'stitch in time' adage... Good luck!

David Lawrence · 9th October 2016, 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by oswestryalex

Hi there,
rust can be a real pain and depending how far it has gotten hold, it might be next to impossible to stop completely. However, rusting is an electrochemical process (bear with me!) You need the following 3 things for it to happen - water, oxygen and the catalytic agent or electrolyte. Eliminate any of those and you stop rust. So... first you remove all of the rust, and then some - there will be rust beyond where it is visible. I would take it 3cms or an inch beyond the obvious limits if at all feasible. Then use a rust inhibiting primer. I have tried the blue ones that theoretically convert the rust to something harmless and unreactive. For me they have not worked all that well. What has usually worked better for me is the Isopon Zinc 182 or equivalents. Zinc acts as what is called a 'sacrificial anode' and thus protects the steel onto which it is applied. It 'rusts' in preference to steel. You can get this stuff in spray tins as well as brush on. Use this as your primer. Then go over with the paint system, in thin multiple coats. You may need to sand down the zinc surface to the right consistency before applying your paint coats - and the lacquer if you have that as part of the paint system. If this is done under dry conditions you might well sort it out. Don't forget there are 2 sides to the sheet of metal you are treating - find out what is going on under the outer side too, or you may be wasting your efforts. Some people swear by infra red lamps to heat up and help cure and drive off water from the area being treated. If you have a garage with power where you can do the work and can hire these lamps, especially this time of the year, then do so. Once you achieve the desired results - keep a close eye on the area when washing and in general inspection to check that your repairs have worked OK. It's the old 'stitch in time' adage... Good luck!

You sound like you are in the business of treating rusty cars. You mentioned the cutting back bit, but i am waiting for the welding up bit. Got some rusty sills going to need attention soon. Apart from the weakspot on the bonnet just above the headlights, and the rear jacking points these cars dont tend to suffer from rust elsewhere. Luckily the underside bits that do rust are still relatively available to replace. My rear upper arms rusted as well, and for what its worth the hammerite gloss black that i used on them only seemed to accelerate the process of rusting, probably because they were rusting from inside out, the paint on just one side of the metal probably just created a nice little moisture trap.

oswestryalex · 9th October 2016, 13:52

It can be a real problem in our climate and with our salted roads - the salt is about the worst thing you can do for car metal, especially steel. I tend to defer to welding experts when it comes to the steel replacement bit. There is a thread running about using fibreglass, and although it can work, if it comes to anything important I would prefer a welded repair any day. The bubbling of paintwork is - I hope! - less serious than a welding session, and so removing all the rust and stopping the electrochemical reaction is key - then seal it all back up; paint works to protect by a process of hermetic sealing in effect; it prevents the water and oxygen from getting in to start the process. As we know, time plays havoc with it eventually. How well built a car is and what quality the components are is really important when it comes to the older used cars, and that is where a Rover or MG would score higher than average (though not the very highest - which is where we have 'fun'! :-) - luckily welding in new sills is a pretty easy task for someone who knows what they are doing. I had that done to an old BMW 5 series some years ago and it went on to give me good service (until it was pranged - not by me...). With Hammerite you really need to get at all the rust - don't believe what they say on the tins. I have been using it on a set of iron gates at home and under the paint the rust develops as though nothing had been done. With the upper arms, I would get myself some new or secondhand ones, and clean them down well, use the Isopon Zinc 182 on them, and then something else over that. Hammerite would be as good as anything. Hope that helps.

Dawn · 9th October 2016, 14:03

I've found Hammerite is not very good once the rust has started, but if you apply it as a topcoat over something else to new or none-rusted metal its great for protecting.

The rust converters that turn blue/black never work for me. I've had rust back through in just days using them.

I've not used Isopon 182 before but will be giving it a try now!

John3:16 · 9th October 2016, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitts

I've found Hammerite is not very good once the rust has started,

I've always had very good results from using Hammeritr KURUST which converts the rust.

Arctic · 10th October 2016, 10:43

Anyone ever tried this below, seems to have a good read up

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1711527386...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

suzublu · 10th October 2016, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arctic

Anyone ever tried this below, seems to have a good read up

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1711527386...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Swear by Bilt Hamber, using this ATM

cbr1100xx · 10th October 2016, 17:46

This is what I use and I haven't found anything as good yet , supposed to leave it on for 24 hrs but if you cover it with cling film its fine. I had a box of old rusty screwdriver bits that had been sitting in a couple of inches of water , and after 24 hrs they were like new , defo recommend

pletevl · 11th October 2016, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbr1100xx

This is what I use and I haven't found anything as good yet , supposed to leave it on for 24 hrs but if you cover it with cling film its fine. I had a box of old rusty screwdriver bits that had been sitting in a couple of inches of water , and after 24 hrs they were like new , defo recommend

I started using this deox stuff earlier in the year for my mini restoration. It is just the best product you can buy, it REMOVES the rust totally, it doesn't convert it, it all disapears. Brilliant stuff. It needs time to work, sometimes days, but it works.

Pete

8th October 2016, 15:29	#1
ardvark Al 75 CDTI Tourer Auto Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Studley Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 1 Thanked 69 Times in 48 Posts	Rust Treatment Getting round to treating the rust on me wheel arch. Rust bubbles and paint lifting. Question to members if I may? What rust treatment have you used that has standed the test of time? Rust killers, rust converters what ever. ALL info gratefully recieved. __________________ ARDVARK

10th October 2016, 10:43	#7
Arctic Give to Learn Freelander 2 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: West Midlands Posts: 18,747 Thanks: 1,155 Thanked 6,407 Times in 3,874 Posts	Anyone ever tried this below, seems to have a good read up http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1711527386...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT __________________ Arctic Givology Learn to Give Everything is Achievable ad altiora tendo. Check out our Nano meet dates http://www.midlandsnanomeets.co.uk/ http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/index.php?thepage=howto " You do the work , we supply the expertise "

8th October 2016, 22:30	#2
oswestryalex Loves to post Rover 75 1.8T connoisseur saloon 2003 in blue , MG ZT 190+ 2003 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oswestry Posts: 308 Thanks: 159 Thanked 99 Times in 57 Posts	Hi there, rust can be a real pain and depending how far it has gotten hold, it might be next to impossible to stop completely. However, rusting is an electrochemical process (bear with me!) You need the following 3 things for it to happen - water, oxygen and the catalytic agent or electrolyte. Eliminate any of those and you stop rust. So... first you remove all of the rust, and then some - there will be rust beyond where it is visible. I would take it 3cms or an inch beyond the obvious limits if at all feasible. Then use a rust inhibiting primer. I have tried the blue ones that theoretically convert the rust to something harmless and unreactive. For me they have not worked all that well. What has usually worked better for me is the Isopon Zinc 182 or equivalents. Zinc acts as what is called a 'sacrificial anode' and thus protects the steel onto which it is applied. It 'rusts' in preference to steel. You can get this stuff in spray tins as well as brush on. Use this as your primer. Then go over with the paint system, in thin multiple coats. You may need to sand down the zinc surface to the right consistency before applying your paint coats - and the lacquer if you have that as part of the paint system. If this is done under dry conditions you might well sort it out. Don't forget there are 2 sides to the sheet of metal you are treating - find out what is going on under the outer side too, or you may be wasting your efforts. Some people swear by infra red lamps to heat up and help cure and drive off water from the area being treated. If you have a garage with power where you can do the work and can hire these lamps, especially this time of the year, then do so. Once you achieve the desired results - keep a close eye on the area when washing and in general inspection to check that your repairs have worked OK. It's the old 'stitch in time' adage... Good luck!

9th October 2016, 13:52	#4
oswestryalex Loves to post Rover 75 1.8T connoisseur saloon 2003 in blue , MG ZT 190+ 2003 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oswestry Posts: 308 Thanks: 159 Thanked 99 Times in 57 Posts	It can be a real problem in our climate and with our salted roads - the salt is about the worst thing you can do for car metal, especially steel. I tend to defer to welding experts when it comes to the steel replacement bit. There is a thread running about using fibreglass, and although it can work, if it comes to anything important I would prefer a welded repair any day. The bubbling of paintwork is - I hope! - less serious than a welding session, and so removing all the rust and stopping the electrochemical reaction is key - then seal it all back up; paint works to protect by a process of hermetic sealing in effect; it prevents the water and oxygen from getting in to start the process. As we know, time plays havoc with it eventually. How well built a car is and what quality the components are is really important when it comes to the older used cars, and that is where a Rover or MG would score higher than average (though not the very highest - which is where we have 'fun'! :-) - luckily welding in new sills is a pretty easy task for someone who knows what they are doing. I had that done to an old BMW 5 series some years ago and it went on to give me good service (until it was pranged - not by me...). With Hammerite you really need to get at all the rust - don't believe what they say on the tins. I have been using it on a set of iron gates at home and under the paint the rust develops as though nothing had been done. With the upper arms, I would get myself some new or secondhand ones, and clean them down well, use the Isopon Zinc 182 on them, and then something else over that. Hammerite would be as good as anything. Hope that helps.

9th October 2016, 14:03	#5
Dawn I really should get out more....... MG ZT 180+ auto Join Date: May 2016 Location: Ilkeston, Derbys Posts: 2,743 Thanks: 285 Thanked 1,128 Times in 504 Posts	I've found Hammerite is not very good once the rust has started, but if you apply it as a topcoat over something else to new or none-rusted metal its great for protecting. The rust converters that turn blue/black never work for me. I've had rust back through in just days using them. I've not used Isopon 182 before but will be giving it a try now!