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Old 19th June 2019, 08:37   #61
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Not really to be honest!
Deforestation has a major environmental impact Nick. And as I understand it - recycling paper and cardboard requires “de-inking” which creates some noxious chemicals.

Also whilst recycling does help conserve trees - manufacture of paper and cardboard via new material or recycling requires larger amounts of water use than most other industries - and the resulting water “waste” is significantly polluted.

I’m not saying we should not use cardboard or paper products - I’m simply saying that the environmental impact of its manufacturing process is a significant issue and so as an alternative to plastic - I don’t see it as the answer.
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Old 19th June 2019, 08:40   #62
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paper mills do not deforest. They almost all use timber from sustainable sources. And if they are FSC certified which most are they HAVE to use sustainable sources.
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Old 19th June 2019, 08:42   #63
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Were did I put my pop corn....
Am I boring you?
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Old 19th June 2019, 08:47   #64
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Put the price up on plastic packaging.

It doesn't help when prices are CHEAP...
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Old 19th June 2019, 08:57   #65
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Put the price up on plastic packaging.

It doesn't help when prices are CHEAP...
Good morning Wes, how are you? When I moved from London to Bristol in November the bubble wrap we used for packing was biodegradable environment friendly and it was more expensive. Something about that didn’t seem right to me. I add it was not much more than the cheap basic stuff.
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Old 19th June 2019, 09:16   #66
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Good morning Wes, how are you? When I moved from London to Bristol in November the bubble wrap we used for packing was biodegradable environment friendly and it was more expensive. Something about that didn’t seem right to me. I add it was not much more than the cheap basic stuff.
Hi Phil, I hope you are well.

I agree, its similar to these gluten, wheat, dairy free foods. They take certain ingredients out, we then are expecting cheaper prices... but other ingredients are then needed which increases the price, plus the extra processes involved I guess.

Less is more...
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Old 19th June 2019, 09:18   #67
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Am I boring you?
Absolutely not Phil!! I had a fear that your sensible comment would engender another “war of words” - I was simply trying to portray myself sitting down to watch the resulting fireworks!!
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Old 19th June 2019, 09:31   #68
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paper mills do not deforest. They almost all use timber from sustainable sources. And if they are FSC certified which most are they HAVE to use sustainable sources.
The “almost all” caveat is what bothers me.

And whilst I don’t doubt that FSC, PEFC, CIFOR, IUFRO etc etc all try to do their very best and are to be congratulated, forestry has a history of ripping up indigenous virgin forest to enable them to then plant sustainable trees.

Very much like the Orangutan’s natural habitat is being grubbed up to grow Palm Oil Trees.
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Old 19th June 2019, 09:40   #69
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The “almost all” caveat is what bothers me.

And whilst I don’t doubt that FSC, PEFC, CIFOR, IUFRO etc etc all try to do their very best and are to be congratulated, forestry has a history of ripping up indigenous virgin forest to enable them to then plant sustainable trees.

Very much like the Orangutan’s natural habitat is being grubbed up to grow Palm Oil Trees.
Ain't talking about palm oil just paper and board. Many mills are also now totally self sufficient in their own energy production. Some even have their own forest plantations as well. If ever you get a chance to visit one do so. I've seen loads of them and they are amazing places. One however wasn't amazing. A mill making coloured paper in China, the small river next door was a distinct shade of blue reflecting the colour being made that day. However this was an awful long time ago and not typical of what goes on there now.
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Old 19th June 2019, 09:55   #70
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Ain't talking about palm oil just paper and board. Many mills are also now totally self sufficient in their own energy production. Some even have their own forest plantations as well. If ever you get a chance to visit one do so. I've seen loads of them and they are amazing places. One however wasn't amazing. A mill making coloured paper in China, the small river next door was a distinct shade of blue reflecting the colour being made that day. However this was an awful long time ago and not typical of what goes on there now.
I only cited Palm oil production as an example of how a need was produced by bad legislation and the opportunity cost of that decision has been dire.

And I am pleased that you have obviously seen improvements over the years and feel strongly about yet further improvement.

My concern is a knee jerk reaction to plastic over use along the lines of “we must now use paper” and the demand created is such that corners are cut and blue rivers like the one you saw in China become the norm in other parts of the world.
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