why cant people leave well alone

[xantiaman]

hi all
i have just purchased my first 75,a 1.8 connie on a w plate which i knew had a water leak/possible head gasket problem.i had been informed that the head gasket/water pump and thermostat had recently been changed but the leak still persisted the then owner lost interest and sold it to me at a bargain basement price.i started to strip the head down and was amazed at the lack of care and attention to things for example,hose clips not correctly seated,bolts/brackests missing and when i finally got to the gasket although a multi layer one had been used the head bolts where not very tight at all.while i was at it i thought i may as well check the thermostat.two of the three bolts came out no problem but the third was spinning in its thread where it had been over tightened.so i needed to remove the whole housing this revealed a broken pipe where it goes into the back of the water pump and a pinched seal.so a relatively straight forward job has taken several hours longer.i can only presume the person doing the work was an amateur mechanic but if somebdy doesnt feel competant why oh why do they attempt this sort of thing.the car has taken all the blame when it really was somebodys fault.i will now get off my soap box and carry on with the work.

[navrac]

In all fairness I have seen certain nameless garages who have done the same standard of work. <mumble mumble ford main dealer mumble, SW London mumble>

But I think the amateur stuff falls into three categories:

1) The' I'll have a go, who needs/what is a torque wrench' brigade who you seem to have encountered.

2) The 'Its my car and I'll do it properly and I've got all the tools' amateur

3) The 'I will do most things but I know my limits so if it looks too hairy, I'll send it to the garage'.

I've rebuilt two engines from top to bottom but I still count myself as no2- mainly because I know I don't have all the facilities to get me out of the s41t if it doesn't go according to plan. I was happy to do it in the days you could get the engine out from the top on a hoist and there was room to work, but modern car design means you either need a lot of skill and experience,really small hands or infinite patience- none of which I have...

[Jules]

At least we can all be Thankful the BODGE MONKEYS don't work on Aircraft!!
I see this time and time again.

But on the subject of Torque wrenches.
Not every bolt can be accessed by such a tool within the engine bay, so one has to relay on good old fashioned skill & "feel"

The other risk of torque settings is they can be mis-read
(either from the document or on the instrument itself)
It still comes down to common sense.
Most torque wrenches have long handles so there's a lots of leverage if the wrong setting is entered.

I have my own chart in the workshop with general thread sizes.
ie
M5 M6 M8 & M10 typical settings just as a double check with specific sharts.
For instance you wouldn't torque an M5 thread up to 45 lb/ft so a quick cross reference points this out!

[MN190]

Local garage near me who specialise in MG Rover
Car went in for some work that involved removal of the bumper

After collecting the car screenwash low level so went to top up and found the washer bottle leaking.

So while checking this out found the hose hadn't been reconnected and half the undertray screws missing.
Lights didn't self level and where pointing too far down - sensor arm knocked out of position.

Put all this right and took photos of what I found

Garage's reply was a mixture of it was either like that when it came in or when it left us everything was fine and words to the efect of close the door on the way out.

[Cymrudragon]

Originally Posted by Jules

At least we can all be Thankful the BODGE MONKEYS don't work on Aircraft!!
I see this time and time again.

But on the subject of Torque wrenches.
Not every bolt can be accessed by such a tool within the engine bay, so one has to relay on good old fashioned skill & "feel"

The other risk of torque settings is they can be mis-read
(either from the document or on the instrument itself)
It still comes down to common sense.
Most torque wrenches have long handles so there's a lots of leverage if the wrong setting is entered.

I have my own chart in the workshop with general thread sizes.
ie
M5 M6 M8 & M10 typical settings just as a double check with specific sharts.
For instance you wouldn't torque an M5 thread up to 45 lb/ft so a quick cross reference points this out!

and you need to recheck torque setting after the bolts in question have become hot and then cooled due to engine temp.....as you already know esp the head bolts..etc......the reason that saab had trouble with hg on the 95 was wrong torqe setting on one bolt as i came to see when my saabs hg went and this was a factory error...

[philjudo]

Quote Jules.
At least we can all be Thankful the BODGE MONKEYS don't work on Aircraft!!


Obviously never flew with Aeroflot or Dan Air

[Paulifa1]

lol, or air Siberia.... you should see the state of thier aircraft, scared me to death, but apparantly the locals told me much better than Aeroflot!!

As for Garages... my experience of most non model specific garages is they f**k up or damage much of what they touch, oddly enough, main dealers seem to be equally **** with anything beyond basic servicing. I even have an Xpart approved MG Rover servicing garage across the road from my office, but I wouldn't touch the guy with a barge pole! In the past I've had to rework nearly anything I had done, as stated by OP, clips or screws missing, incorrect re-assembly of covers, brackets etc, scratches to wing tops were the tosspots have leant over with grimy overalls without suitable covers in place.. Grrr

These days I do it all myself to a high standard, or if I don't have the kit for it (or just don't want to do it!) would give the work to one of the highly recommended specialists on here or the likes.

[chrissyboy]

Originally Posted by xantiaman

hi all
i have just purchased my first 75,a 1.8 connie on a w plate which i knew had a water leak/possible head gasket problem.i had been informed that the head gasket/water pump and thermostat had recently been changed but the leak still persisted the then owner lost interest and sold it to me at a bargain basement price.i started to strip the head down and was amazed at the lack of care and attention to things for example,hose clips not correctly seated,bolts/brackests missing and when i finally got to the gasket although a multi layer one had been used the head bolts where not very tight at all.while i was at it i thought i may as well check the thermostat.two of the three bolts came out no problem but the third was spinning in its thread where it had been over tightened.so i needed to remove the whole housing this revealed a broken pipe where it goes into the back of the water pump and a pinched seal.so a relatively straight forward job has taken several hours longer.i can only presume the person doing the work was an amateur mechanic but if somebdy doesnt feel competant why oh why do they attempt this sort of thing.the car has taken all the blame when it really was somebodys fault.i will now get off my soap box and carry on with the work.

that was the way my car was when i got it .. the any reason i bought it was cos the hg had jut been replaced ,,,but as you have found i had 2 bolts missing from the water pump housing ,2 bolts missing from the under tray ,and air in the system ,ok they used the parts that are supposed to recommended , the only way to for a repair to be done is by some one that knows what they are doing ,, at the end of the day it is only an engine so the baic`s apply to all engines justa matter of the mechanic being able to read ,, ,,my guys put all my problems right , at first they told m that they used all the bits i asked them to to do my head head gasket , after8 weeks they asked me how the car was running ,i said now its got all the recommened bits it is running better than ever , thats when they burst my buble and told me all they did was replace head gasket and water pump.. skimmed head too..... now i must explain i had it all do for noting as im training in the mot garage around the corner to the main work shop .. any way they told me that its not the bits you use its the exprience in doing the job that counts ..my guys could do any car ,and it would be perfect ... as they say never take short cuts as there is no such thing in repairing cars ,a short cut amounts to a bodge ... hope you get the car all sorted