Zt 190 brake upgrade

[Rick-sta]

Originally Posted by clf

from that I am reading that red five has standard brakes (non 190). When was the last time the brake fluid was flushed through and changed? If it was in your ownership, did you notice much of an improvement with a fluid change?

I changed to 190 for two reasons. A serious reduction in feel when braking hard even though they still braked as well as before. After doing it, I flushed and replaced the fluid in my mother's clio, after which the difference was as marked as the standard to 190 set up.

Second reason was, more surface area means better braking benefit, which is always a good thing.

I justified it though because of that loss of feel, but I think that would have improved immensely with a fluid change. The 190 set up though will be better at braking, how much better I really do not know, and I think most who have done it, will have done it with a full fluid change too. So that benefit will be exaggerated and make the standard setup appear inadequate by an 'unfair' comparison.

It is more of a curiosity rather than disagreeing that a 190 set up is better (if I had realised this thought and had time to, before changing them, I would have experimented with it).

I don't know when the brake fluid was last changed (if ever) but had the discs and pads changed all round a few months ago and it brakes very well.

When I had the brakes changed up to 190 set up on my ZT I think the brake fluid may have been changed at the same time (phil t4 done it years ago and had to change the copper brake pipes to the front brakes at the same time).

On the ZT-T I replaced the discs and pads but not the brake fluid and that braked just like my ZT.

Just from my experience, I've driven 3 or 4 with the 190 set up and 6 or 7 with the standard set up and under normal braking conditions I found it pretty obvious that the 190 brakes had better braking than the standard set up.

The standard set up is perfectly adequate, but after having the extra safe feeling of the better braking with the 190 set up I much prefer it. I would have done it on redfive but had a few repairs that wanted doing in one go and at the same time the driver's front caliper decided it wanted to start sticking. So ended up just replacing the discs and pads all round for now. Also I wasn't sure if the Dare wheels would clear the bigger 190 brakes and didn't have time to check. Maybe next year once I've got good use out of the current brakes.

Also cosmetically the fronts look nicer filling out the 18 inch wheels better, especially with drilled and grooved/dimpled discs which is what I fitted on both my 190 set ups.

[Mike Trident]

The reason for bigger disc is to disperse heat. Heat causes fade.

Bigger brakes don't make you stop quicker, you can only go as far as locking the wheel. But in a comparison on a track day for example the larger discs won't fade as much. They will stand harsher braking for longer.

As it's been said, you cannot really make a direct comparison when you are servicing the brake system at the same time as fitting bigger disc's.

[Mike Trident]

What is the tyre width on a 190?

As soon as you start putting more rubber onto the road you will need bigger brakes to be able to lock the wheel. They go hand in hand.

Looking back at these posts, in order to fit the 190 set up, you need bigger wheels yes? The bigger wheels are probably also wider. So if I fitted the full set up on my 75, brakes, wheels, tyres it would be better at stopping. But that's because you have changed many things as well as just the brakes.

[Rick-sta]

Originally Posted by Mike Trident

What is the tyre width on a 190?

As soon as you start putting more rubber onto the road you will need bigger brakes to be able to lock the wheel. They go hand in hand.

tyre with the same on all ours and others I've driven as they've always been ZT's.

My ZT typhoon 225/45/18's before and after the 190 brake upgrade.
redfive same size.
my dad's 75 - same size as has 11's fitted.
my 190 again same size had multispokes fitted
my old 75 had 17 inch wheels but still 225's.

Others I'd driven from memory all had the same tyre size as they were all ZT's with 18 inch wheels.

Put my old 190 and my typhoon next to redfive and my dad's 75 and brake as harshy as possible without locking the wheels/kicking in the ABS and my the 190 and typhoon would stop first every time.

Bigger brakes don't make you stop quicker

I don't agree with that at all. Bigger brakes slow the car down quicker under normal braking conditions. Otherwise why bother fitting bigger brakes at all to any car?

[Mike Trident]

https://www.eeuroparts.com/blog/the-...ou%20can%20use.

[clf]

Originally Posted by Mike Trident

The reason for bigger disc is to disperse heat. Heat causes fade.

Bigger brakes don't make you stop quicker, you can only go as far as locking the wheel. But in a comparison on a track day for example the larger discs won't fade as much. They will stand harsher braking for longer.

As it's been said, you cannot really make a direct comparison when you are servicing the brake system at the same time as fitting bigger disc's.

A bigger area, without other changes will improve braking ability. Being able to brake hard, just to that point prior to the brakes locking up is where the brakes will improve. The bigger area provides more stopping force.

Originally Posted by Mike Trident

What is the tyre width on a 190?

As soon as you start putting more rubber onto the road you will need bigger brakes to be able to lock the wheel. They go hand in hand.

Looking back at these posts, in order to fit the 190 set up, you need bigger wheels yes? The bigger wheels are probably also wider. So if I fitted the full set up on my 75, brakes, wheels, tyres it would be better at stopping. But that's because you have changed many things as well as just the brakes.

My wheels and tyres remained unchanged at the time I changed mine. Larger surface patch on the road will obviously help matters too.

Originally Posted by Mike Trident

https://www.eeuroparts.com/blog/the-...ou%20can%20use.

That site relates if you are experiencing brake fade. I wasnt. My brakes performed as they should have, the braking force was still there, it was the 'feel' that disappeared. To me that was a fluid issue (possibly a pad issue, but I dont think it). I do reckon if I needed to brake for further, fade could have become an issue (I never would purposely put myself in the position).

After my 190 set up, there is more feel - this I attribute to the fluid change, and this is my curiosity, how much of the compliments of a 190 set up can be attributed to a full fluid change (should be every 2 years, but I reckon mine had been at least 4 years gone).

After the 190 set up, there is more 'bite', I can brake much later (being stupid) - which is what I attribute to the larger surface area. This will also give more effective braking for the same effort in an emergency situation. Larger surface area (approx. 13-14% - based upon overall area), with the same mass, it stands to reason, that they will generate 13-14% more braking force for the same effort.