Have Red Bull Racing been a bit naughty?

[stevestrat]

There are accusations that Red Bull have bent (literally) the rules by using a rear wing that flexes at speed which has a similar influence on straight line speed as the DRS. FIA isn't pointing any fingers but they have contacted all teams saying it has become aware that some aerodynamic devices although rigid in a static test deflected at speed. The FIA is to carry out deflection tests and also use the cameras on the cars to monitor the wings.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57086036

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by stevestrat

There are accusations that Red Bull have bent (literally) the rules by using a rear wing that flexes at speed which has a similar influence on straight line speed as the DRS. FIA isn't pointing any fingers but they have contacted all teams saying it has become aware that some aerodynamic devices although rigid in a static test deflected at speed. The FIA is to carry out deflection tests and also use the cameras on the cars to monitor the wings.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57086036

I’m not a materials science expert by any means but I was told by a very knowledgeable man who certainly was an expert in aircraft wing design that any wing type structure that did not flex had a short life until it broke off or broke up.

Not sure how any wing type structure can not flex?

[stevestrat]

FIA are aware wings etc will flex to a certain degree, it all depends how it flexes. If it flexes in a way that gives an aerodynamic advantage reducing drag on the straights its deemed to be against the rules and regulations.

[clf]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

I’m not a materials science expert by any means but I was told by a very knowledgeable man who certainly was an expert in aircraft wing design that any wing type structure that did not flex had a short life until it broke off or broke up.

Not sure how any wing type structure can not flex?

F1 wings all have deflection built in, for the reason you describe, but these have proscribed tests, and obviously they have to meet these requirements. There are various directional load tests - I havent read of a pulling load test, but I imagine there will be, as the forces pushing on it would be massive, and therefore any breakage could be catastrophic to a following car. I remember teams experimenting with flexible wings that flattened under load to reduce drag (mainly the front). These were tested for and outlawed. However, I do reckon they are capable of finding loopholes either via interpretation or by manipulating known material properties.

It is interesting who leaked it publicly though - Hamilton, a non engineer, 'mentioning' it. It gives deniability to Mercedes, but at the same time, winds up the Red Bull team. This is a tactic Red Bull have used in the past, add a little doubt, puts scrutiny on the accused team. If it is proved incorrect, then it can be denied as Hamilton misunderstanding a debriefing comment. It is without class, in my view, but that is unsurprising.

[Rogue]

It certainly appears to be flexing significantly more than the Mercedes wing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBWUefSl5tI

[AndyN01]

Reminds me of something similar in the post ground effects era. Minardi ?????? had flexible side pods to recreate the seal on the sides or something like that.

F1 is all about mind games and fiddling the regs by "interpretation" Been happening for decades.

Maybe they should have the regs swapped round so that anything that isn't specifically allowed, isn't.

Or the opposite, do whatever you like within a weight/height/length/width limit.

Wouldn't that be "interesting" and kill off F1 in a few years due to teams going bankrupt

Brabham fan car anyone .

[SCP440]

My oldest son works for Alpina (Renault). He reckons they are all stretching the rules as much as possible.

One of the worse ones recently was Ferrari, a couple of years ago they were doing very well and it was found they were modulating there fuel pressure, it is supposed to be a max of x psi but they were averaging that pressure and it gave them about an extra 50 bhp.

They were told to fix it and since then they have been struggling.

[torque2me]

Originally Posted by AndyN01

Reminds me of something similar in the post ground effects era. Minardi ?????? had flexible side pods to recreate the seal on the sides or something like that.

Brabham fan car anyone .

There was another F1 team that did "ground effect", late 80's? The airstream under the car formed a suction and thus the grip was enhanced. Perfectly legal when introduced but banned, I think, after a season!

Someone on the forum might remember the team.

Kev

[clf]

Originally Posted by torque2me

Alli has been used in cars pre-WW2 and Land Rover body work post WW2 ('47/'48) due to steel shortages/rationing.

Kev

Ah, but the bonding processes and materials were not available to allow the appropriate strengths.

That development subsided when the mp4/1 came along with the carbon fibre.

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[clf]

Originally Posted by torque2me

There was another F1 team that did "ground effect", late 80's? The airstream under the car formed a suction and thus the grip was enhanced. Perfectly legal when introduced but banned, I think, after a season!

Someone on the forum might remember the team.

Kev

It is current. That is part of what those little vents and winglets are for.

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