Help I can't start!

[patrolman pete]

Not wanting to worry you but is the coolant level okay ? I once attended a Vauxhall Astra with a similar issue many years ago . I removed the spark plugs and got the driver to crank it and the blast of water from one of the spark plug holes nearly knocked my glasses off ! His head gasket had leaked into the cylinder when the coolant was under pressure and the engine was switched off causing it to hydraulic.

I know that the spark plugs are not easy to remove on the V6 and they are not known for head gasket issues so I'm probably just thinking out loud . I'd agree with others and get the garage to pull out the starter and put a socket and bar on the crank pulley to see if the engine will turn in either direction.

[Forestgreen]

The coolant level was fine. The car has had a very slow head gasket coolant leak for several years (a constant rate of around 1ml of coolant per mile) so seems unlikely it could have suddenly blown.

Will ask them if they have tried to crank with starter motor and ancillary belts off. I presume if they still can't, then the engine is goosed?

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Forestgreen

Not being a mechanic myself ...

Hello David,

Thanks very much for posting the latest from the garage and your own thoughts. I think we all appreciate the difficult position you're in. I hope that you'll be reassured by the number of replies you've received which are all on the same theme; that we're concerned that the tests so far carried out are not sufficiently conclusive.

Originally Posted by Forestgreen

For instance do I need to ask specifically, have they tried to turn the engine after taking out the starter motor?

Yes, definitely. You've hit the nail on the head with this question David. Try to get them to be specific about exactly what they've done.

Originally Posted by Forestgreen

If it does, presumably the answer is a new starter.

Not necessarily. The starter motor itself rarely, if ever, gives trouble. What usually happens is that a part called the "solenoid contacts" wears. A repair kit is available for under £20 and it's easy to fit.

Originally Posted by Forestgreen

Does the car have a flywheel (auto 2.5) ...

The starter motor engages with gear teeth mounted on the flywheel in a car with a manual gearbox. An automatic has the same gear teeth but they're mounted on a different part called the torque converter. As far as tests are concerned to narrow down your problem, you can regard them as the same.

Originally Posted by Forestgreen

Would anything else cause the engine not to move ...

Possibly, which is why an earlier post recommends removal of the ancillary drive belt (this powers the air conditioning compressor, alternator and power assisted steering pump) if the engine still cannot be turned manually after removing the starter motor.

Thanks for keeping us updated David and please report back tomorrow when you've had a chance to talk further with the garage.

Simon

Edit: I've just seen your last post.

Originally Posted by Forestgreen

Will ask them if they have tried to crank with starter motor and ancillary belts off.

It's important to do these one at a time David; first by hand with the starter motor removed since this is the most likely source of trouble. Only then, if the engine still cannot be turned, do you remove the ancillary belt (there's only one) because this involves rather more dismantling.

[Ducati750cc]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Hello David,

Thanks very much for posting the latest from the garage and your own thoughts. I think we all appreciate the difficult position you're in. I hope that you'll be reassured by the number of replies you've received which are all on the same theme; that we're concerned that the tests so far carried out are not sufficiently conclusive.

Yes, definitely. You've hit the nail on the head with this question David. Try to get them to be specific about exactly what they've done.

Not necessarily. The starter motor itself rarely, if ever, gives trouble. What usually happens is that a part called the "solenoid contacts" wears. A repair kit is available for under £20 and it's easy to fit.

The starter motor engages with gear teeth mounted on the flywheel in a car with a manual gearbox. An automatic has the same gear teeth but they're mounted on a different part called the torque converter. As far as tests are concerned to narrow down your problem, you can regard them as the same.

Possibly, which is why an earlier post recommends removal of the ancillary drive belt (this powers the air conditioning compressor, alternator and power assisted steering pump) if the engine still cannot be turned manually after removing the starter motor.

Thanks for keeping us updated David and please report back tomorrow when you've had a chance to talk further with the garage.

Simon

One thing to mention is to see if the engine can be turned in the reverse direction slightly via the starter ring gear, to the one it normally rotates, many things can make it appear that an engine has seized, from a combustion chamber full of water to a dropped valve,dropped seat, all of which preventing the piston on the cylinder going past TDC, however it will be able to be turned in the reverse direction.



I agree with all of the above test suggestions from others, the last and final test is to remove all the plugs and see if has a hydraulic problem, it is surprising how little water it needs in one combustion chamber to lock an engine, a cup full can be enough and in rare circumstances the problem can occur on a stationery warm / hot engine also cold sometimes, with one piston pretty well up the bore on the compression stroke and coolant fills the combustion chamber.




There are several reasons that you may get " but just gives me a rapid clunk-clunk-clunk with the dash lights fading on and off at the same time."


The cause of the noise can be due to a low or faulty battery, seized starter motor, seized engine and so on.


What happens is that the solenoid contacts close allowing the starter motor to draw current from the battery, if either the battery is faulty or engine seized preventing the starter motor turning, the battery voltage drops to the stage where there is insufficient voltage to hold the contacts closed and so they open, as soon as they open the voltage rises to the point that the contacts close again and the previous cycle starts again giving the chattering noise.


The dash lights dimming is due to the same reason, a starter motor can draw a massive amount of amps if it is prevented from turning.

[Forestgreen]

Reporting back from garage after they removed the belt and starter motor. The engine turned backwards (slightly) but not forwards, and there was oil everywhere.


Ooops. Just over 100,000 miles of which the last 60,000 were carefully driven by me (and the final 2 by my lovely wife)



I'll PM a few members suggested previously who might have a spare 2.5 auto engine knocking around but finding a mechanic willing and able to fit a replacement engine is proving a bit of a headache. I'm in Birmingham but willing to travel (or should I say, the car's going to have to be trailored so distance isn't a major factor though the Scottish Highlands wouldn't be very convenient... any suggestions? I will need to do the maths versus replacing the car though having fitted a new exhaust only a month ago to get through its MOT I'd be cheesed about losing that!

[Mike Noc]

Terry at TS Autos used to be in Stourbridge, not sure where he moved to, but you won't get a better job done installing a replacement engine. He may even know of an available one.

[Number 6]

Originally Posted by Mike Noc

Terry at TS Autos used to be in Stourbridge, not sure where he moved to, but you won't get a better job done installing a replacement engine. He may even know of an available one.

I do believe he has moved out to the Shropshire area.

[Forestgreen]

I haven't posted in a while but it's time for an update. Thanks to members on this forum I was given a number of leads to follow up. An engine rebuild didn't sound remotely feasible but I found three different mechanics and sources of engines. I had to pass on the one who was booked up until January, though good to know business remains strong for looking after these lovely cars.


The one I went for in the end was Tom Force in Leominster near Hereford, who was recommended by a couple of people on the forum whose judgement I trust. He had an engine in stock that was in excellent running order and arrnaged collection literally the next day. I have to say that I was thoroughly impressed from start to finish with his communication, explanation, advice and pricing. There were a number of bits of trim that had needed sorting for a while too and he kindly fixed those while the car was with him. He is in the middle of restoring one of the very rare six door 75 limousine and appears to have an incredible knowledge of these cars.



In case you are wondering, one of the connecting rods in the old engine had snapped. I gather that doesn't often happen, and I thought I was a careful driver. Hey ho.



The car has been driving pretty well since then, and I can't get over how much quieter it sounds with its new engine. The only problem is that at the moment I can't actually monitor if it's maintaining oil and coolant since when I tried to lift the bonnet the other day the cable snapped.....there's always something to fix on these cars, gotta love 'em, haven't you?

[COLVERT]

You obviously had a very rare problem but all's well that ends well.---I'm pleased for you.
I hope you have better luck from now on.---

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Forestgreen

... when I tried to lift the bonnet the other day the cable snapped.....there's always something to fix on these cars ...

Hi David,

After you've replaced the broken cable, I'd suggest the following maintenance to lessen the chances of this happening again.

• Grease the slider in the cable splitter box on the OS inner wing.
• Remove the latch and soak it in a solution of Gunk (or equivalent), dry and re-grease.
• Check the adjustment and lubrication of the two strikers. The front edges of the bonnet should be level with the wings.

Simon