Norwegian damsel in distress

[MayNorway]

I hope it is OK that I make a document from the thread here, and show your reflections on the matter?

Now, I do hope the meeting will be positive. I think they dont want a conflict, either. But I suspect they will never wanna touch the Rover again...

Have a nice weekend, good folks!
/May

[vitesse]

Originally Posted by MayNorway

I hope it is OK that I make a document from the thread here, and show your reflections on the matter?

Now, I do hope the meeting will be positive. I think they dont want a conflict, either. But I suspect they will never wanna touch the Rover again...

Have a nice weekend, good folks!
/May

I doubt any posters have any objections to you making a document esp. if it helps save a Rover.

I certainly hope they'll never want to touch the Rover again, shouldn't be allowed anywhere near one. Find yourself "an old school" mechanic, ideally retired and use this and other sources to look for information about your car.

Regards

[Blink]

Originally Posted by MayNorway

I hope it is OK that I make a document from the thread here, and show your reflections on the matter?

I wouldn't show them this thread yet - I'd wait until we've got more information on what they did and what they think is wrong with the engine, why they took the engine out of the car and what are they proposing to do next (etc.) Plus photographs of as much as possible.

Good luck May.

PS. If you want to copy the thread, click the Thread Tools dropdown arrow > Show Printable Version > (top right of next page) Show 150 posts from this thread on one page.

Or - the Google Chrome browser can convert it into a pdf file - but you'll have to do each page separately and then combine the resulting pdf files into a single pdf.

[beinet1]

Hi all,

I had a phone call with May yesterday to try to get an overview over this situation. I always like to take a systematic approach to these issues and sum up during the process. So, as I have understood, in short terms the story goes like this:

1. Initially the car was working fine with no known issues, but had a high consumption of oil. Approx 0,5 liter pr tank of fuel as I understood. She got noticed by the high oil consumption from the previous owner when she took over the car in November -19.

2. Visited the local garage for a general check over. They generously filled the engine with oil and had no control/verification over the final oil level. The coolant was also topped up, no control/verification over the final level.

3. The engine overheated and misfired the day after.

4. Car brought back to garage. Fault codes read indicating misfire on cyl.2.

5. 1x cylinder head removed from engine for inspection as quoted and requested by the customer, finding a delaminated cam cover gasket and evidence of water in cyl.2.

6. Garage concludes engine not reasonably repairable and "new engine" needed.

7. No conclusions has been made for the cause and time for initial failure.

8. Garage pulled the whole engine/gearbox assembly out of the car for the inspection/dismantling of one cylinder head. This was not needed at all and involved a lot of extra labour, making the way back to a running car a lot longer.

So... Very hard to say if the main issue has started before the first garage visit or caused by the visit, as I can see it.

I have no Idea what it takes to get this engine up running again as I have not seen all in details, but think this could be doable with the right DIY approach as garage labour would be higher than acquire a good running R75. For all we now, this is caused by a IMG/HG issue which is not the end of the world.

I can see that this is a frustrating situation for you, May, as you had a nicely running car before the first garage visit. I think you shall use this for what its worth during the meeting to get things end up in your favour. This meeting will probably be a word-against-word discussion and the outcome will be based on the garages goodwill and "gut-feeling".

I can only wish you good luck for the meeting and hope you report back.

Do any of you others have some good advice regarding this? Please correct me if I am wrong in any of this.

Rgds
Einar.

P.S.
Nice talking to you May, there is a few of us with good taste but very seldom I get into contact with other Norwegian Rover 75 owners. Starts to be very few of us here now.

[vitesse]

Great to hear that you have talked to May and can offer sound advice.
This is the first time I’ve heard of high oil consumption and explains an indistinct comment I partially heard on May’s video where the garage staff talk about I think oil and say something like “that’s guaranteed”. Even a local Norwegian living here couldn’t make out the conversation!
As Trikey mentioned earlier in the thread, if they managed to overfill the oil, maybe they “checked” the coolant as well.
Most garages and owners when they first see a KV6 manage to overfill the expansion tank, I did the first time. Next day according to May the engine overheated, airlock, nowhere for the expanded coolant to go, leading perhaps to over pressurisation of the cooling system and the leak into No.2 cylinder? There’s little doubt that the IMG has been compromised, a Swedish mechanic with 35 years experience said he was 100% sure.
So May, the customer, agreed that they should remove the cylinder head - poor dear she has absolutely no idea what a cylinder head is or does, she would say yes! Now even if the garage decide to reassemble everything it is doubtful if they have the specialist tools for the cambelts, not everyone is capable of making their own as you have done
I understand that May is a member of the Norwegian AA perhaps they can assist in any arbitration.

Good luck today May

[beinet1]

Originally Posted by vitesse

Great to hear that you have talked to May and can offer sound advice.
This is the first time I’ve heard of high oil consumption and explains an indistinct comment I partially heard on May’s video where the garage staff talk about I think oil and say something like “that’s guaranteed”. Even a local Norwegian living here couldn’t make out the conversation!
As Trikey mentioned earlier in the thread, if they managed to overfill the oil, maybe they “checked” the coolant as well.
Most garages and owners when they first see a KV6 manage to overfill the expansion tank, I did the first time. Next day according to May the engine overheated, airlock, nowhere for the expanded coolant to go, leading perhaps to over pressurisation of the cooling system and the leak into No.2 cylinder? There’s little doubt that the IMG has been compromised, a Swedish mechanic with 35 years experience said he was 100% sure.
So May, the customer, agreed that they should remove the cylinder head - poor dear she has absolutely no idea what a cylinder head is or does, she would say yes! Now even if the garage decide to reassemble everything it is doubtful if they have the specialist tools for the cambelts, not everyone is capable of making their own as you have done
I understand that May is a member of the Norwegian AA perhaps they can assist in any arbitration.

Good luck today May

Good point regarding the coolant. Did they fill to the max mark or did they fill to the top of the expansion chamber like it was a good old radiator? The over pressure should bleed of through the expansion cap, but if its filled all the way to the top it might not be able to get rid of the excess fast enough while warming up??
The bad thing is that we have no evidence of the oil and coolant level after the first garage visit.

[vitesse]

I've asked May if she received an invoice for the check-up or service that was done when she was first there. Some garages would specify quantities esp if it was more than just topping-up, no reply on that.

I've also suggested in the meeting today that she ask how much coolant they filled and show her the level they fitted it to on the expansion tank (without telling them about the max indicator).

OK we don't know the oil level nor do we know how much coolant, but I understood that the garage admitted overfilling the oil and they added coolant. And the next day the car, for the first time, overheated and evidence of a leak into no.2 was found - bit too much for mere coincidence, isn't it?

Regards

[beinet1]

Originally Posted by vitesse

I've asked May if she received an invoice for the check-up or service that was done when she was first there. Some garages would specify quantities esp if it was more than just topping-up, no reply on that.

I've also suggested in the meeting today that she ask how much coolant they filled and show her the level they fitted it to on the expansion tank (without telling them about the max indicator).

OK we don't know the oil level nor do we know how much coolant, but I understood that the garage admitted overfilling the oil and they added coolant. And the next day the car, for the first time, overheated and evidence of a leak into no.2 was found - bit too much for mere coincidence, isn't it?

Regards

Coincidence or not, hard to tell. At least we do not know the fluid levels. But yes, they did something with the car and the car failed. But taking the high oil consumption into account would maybe tell that the engine was not healthy in the first place, but this may not need to be related to this failure.
All in all, hard to draw any conclusions, but if the coolant was severe overfilled and the pressure cap not able to handle the fluid flow, this would over pressure the coolant system and make the water find new ways out like through the inlet manifold gasket for example.

[vitesse]

Sadly, having seen the baked cam cover gasket and the previous owner admitting high oil consumption - then you're probably right that the engine wasn't very healthy in the first place. Then again we don't know the reason for the high oil consumption, a leak perhaps? Wouldn't an engine burning that much oil result in such high emissions on the MoT, enough to fail the car?

I understand that the oily, carbonised state of the camshaft housing might give engineers like you nightmares, but the only camshaft I could see, in my opinion, looked fine, no blue tint, the lobes looked fine - believe me having owned lots of Rover V8s I've seen much worse and they still ran.

Replacement engines are not too expensive this side of the border, unfortunately any replacement engine should be fitted with a new belt kit, adding more expense to May's hard hit wallet.

Regards

[Donald63]

As i bought this vehicle from the Norwegian Lady.
The prblem of the coolant leak came from a cracked cylinder liner nr 2. The engine is a the moment out of the car and dismanteled. All 6 liners will be replaced, new pistonrings, lifters and gaskets. Skimmed heads. Hopefully on the road x-mas time