Coolant in oil after head gasket blown.. Any thoughts on main cause?

[Mogmike]

Hi..not sure who can see this but I said I would update the original post and here it is..(i shall post this as a new post as well..). Heads off and not as messy a head gasket as I imagined.. mind you the rocker cover gasket clearly overheated. First check is the liners..the tops are all level with the block face. Don't know if this is normal or have they dropped..? I note that the club info on gasket replacement states that the new multi layer gasket should only be used if the liners are at least 3mm above the face.. That puts me inline for the existing elastomer again.
On a brief check of the head there's no real measurable distortion..so that's a relief. I don't know if it's worth fitting the strengthened oil rail..and advice please whether I should take the valves out and replace the valve seals..?
I shall replace the cam belt and water pump as a matter of course.. Any thoughts on liners position and other advice is very welcome. Haven't placed the repair kit order as yet.. Thanks for help and comments to date..

[Saga Lout]

Originally Posted by Mogmike

Firstly.. thanks to TC, Yorkshire GOC, Suzublu and Rich in Vancouver for getting back and giving your comments.. Secondly apologies for my late response but I've been pontificating..and delaying the inevitable strip down. It looks like the consensus of the likely cause and failure point is elastomer failure of the head gasket..
I've just started today having boned up on as much info as I can. There seems to be comment in K engine write ups about the inlet manifold which if failing to seal will put water into the pots.. So I'm starting to look there.. I have found some coolant in the main tube from the air filter to the inlet manifold .. Not sure what that means but the filter is as clean as a whistle.. Maybe just vapour turning to water from when the white smoke/steam came out of the exhaust. Also when draining (and carrying out initial cleaning flush..the coolant wasn't contaminated by the oil.. at least only superficially but no espresso coffee..)
I will post updates of what I find as I go now but just for info I did get an overheat light on first, and topped up with water twice to get home. After the first refill I did about 15 miles before it started missing and the light coming on again. It took a lot of water on both refills. I also note that it has the thermostat on the outlet side ( now located in the hoses on the near side behind the radiator) so must be a mod on the 2004 model I have.
I could kick myself for not checking levels regularly knowing the bad history that follows this engine. Probably checked 1000 miles ago. Incidentally my car has only done 56K and has a very thorough service history.. even the oil was clean when I bought it back in January.
Inlet retaining nuts are all off and started taking off the plumbing but rain stopped play..( yes I'm having to do it outside on the drive..😕.) But have a garage where I can work on the bits I take off.
Can't wait to get to the head gasket and see what I find. 👀.. Thank you all again

I drilled out the inlet manifold, I threaded the head and installed the nozzle direct into it, the water cannot get into the cylinders no matter what as there's no link anymore. It's been a good modification and really should have been done like this from the factory.

[T-Cut]

Originally Posted by Mogmike

First check is the liners..the tops are all level with the block face. Don't know if this is normal or have they dropped..? I note that the club info on gasket replacement states that the new multi layer gasket should only be used if the liners are at least 3mm above the face.. That puts me inline for the existing elastomer again.

I think that's at least 3thou, but yes you should fit the latest elastomer gasket. The ones available from DMGRS are proven to be reliable. Either the Payen version or the lower cost equivalent is what you need. They're in this section of the DMGRS website: https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/...e-parts?page=1

On a brief check of the head there's no real measurable distortion so that's a relief.

Check the surface for indentations. If so, it may be worth having a thou skimmed off just to renew the surface, but not essential of it looks in good condition.

I don't know if it's worth fitting the strengthened oil rail.

The uprated oil ladder (plus stronger head bolts) is specifically for fitting the MLS system. This gasket needs rather more compression than the elastomer. You won't get any benefit.

and advice please whether I should take the valves out and replace the valve seals..?

This is also unnecessary unless there is clear evidence of burning around the valve heads. Don't make unnecessary work for fixing a relatively simple problem.

I shall replace the cam belt and water pump as a matter of course.

Don't forget the tensioner. DMGRS sells the type with a metal (not plastic) roller. When you do this part, refer to the Haynes manual (or YouTube videos) on the correct tensioning procedure. There are two ways to do it but only one is correct.

Any thoughts on liners position and other advice is very welcome. Haven't placed the repair kit order as yet.. Thanks for help and comments to date..

The Payen/elastomer is fine with level liners. You might be able to save money by getting a set of gaskets or a kit for the 1.8 headwork. Again check what DMGRS offers. And if you don't know or aren't sure about something then ask, but have a Haynes on hand.


EDIT: What's the old gasket like? Predictably it will be generally good, other than the rubber seals unsticking from the surface? Can you post a photo of it?


TC

[Mogmike]

Hi T Cut..
Really useful practical comments .. thanks for taking the time. I'll definitely get the metal tensioner.
Yes the head gasket is in general good condition other than the polymer lifting/losing its adhesion.
I have taken pictures but did wipe off the surfaces lightly.. Incidentally from memory no pink deposit on the head, but slight pink deposit in two small places at either end of the block.
Here's a couple of low res pics as requested..I hope..🤔

[The Rovering Member]

Originally Posted by Saga Lout

I drilled out the inlet manifold, I threaded the head and installed the nozzle direct into it, the water cannot get into the cylinders no matter what as there's no link anymore. It's been a good modification and really should have been done like this from the factory.

Is there a 'How to' on this? It sounds a worthwhile modification.

[Mogmike]

Trying again to load the pics20200907_115528_resized.jpg

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[Mogmike]

Trying again to load the pics..
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[Cantray]

Thanks for that - the last picture of engine block is a real eye opener to me in terms of k series construction. My 1.8 has now done more miles on its replacement gasket than it managed on the original. We did 560 mile round trip last weekend with no trouble and zero coolant loss. Good luck with repair.

[hogweed]

Originally Posted by Mogmike

Trying again to load the pics..

Displaying fine here... thnk maybe you're the only one who can't see your own pics, which may suggest that you need to clear your brower's cache and cookies... always worth a try

[Saga Lout]

Originally Posted by The Rovering Member

Is there a 'How to' on this? It sounds a worthwhile modification.

I haven't done a how to but I can tell you how to if you're handy with tools, it made a difference to my car as it took away a possible cause of gasket failure.