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Old 11th May 2021, 07:47   #1
YorksMG2013
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Default Depressed about car ownership

Guys, I have a bit of a dilemma, which I'm sure other members are having similar thoughts/issues around.

I have an 04 plate ZT190 SE which has been my daily, away for the winter months, for quite a few years.
I am/was hoping to put her back on the road this month, but when I tot up the costs involved in that:

- VED £340
- Insurance c.£200
- MOT c.£50
- Service ?? (a couple of hundred as she also needs engine mounts replaced)
- Needs rear sills replaced (have components which I bought from Tom Hobbs last year)

I am wondering whether this is just too much to spend on a daily car?
I am looking at bills which equal (or exceed) the value of the car as she is now.
We do, however need something bigger and more flexible on the road than our Mini (which has been doing daily service recently)
What my lady doesn't realise is that to sell the car for £700-£800 it will have to be roadworthy (which means having to spend the £700-£800 to get it ready to sell)
On this basis I should just give it away! :-(

Any comments/thoughts?

Andrew
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Old 11th May 2021, 08:34   #2
kelvo
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Well given that ZTs are getting rarer these days I would put it back on the road (SEs being particularly rare).

Of that list if you went and bought another car you would still have to pay.

- VED (you could get one in a cheaper tax bracket)
- Insurance (this could be cheaper depending on the car)
- MOT (same cost regardless of car)
- Servicing (again depends on car)

The rest of things you could consider as consumables, tyres, body repairs etc.

If you have the work done then you know you've got a good car, you could go and buy something and still have to spend the same again on it.
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Old 11th May 2021, 09:09   #3
Robson Rover Repair
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Break it down like this.

Monthly payments in even the cheapest brand new euro box will be circa £200 ish.

Insurance, tax and mot charge are irrelevant. All cars need them so it's a default.

I've said it before and said it again, preventive maintenance is the key to keeping our cars on the road.

Stocking up on brakes / discs / pads / clutch / oils / etc anything if you see it cheap then buy it and keep it. I get abuse about it from my mates, but when I need a front arm I don't have to wait 5 to 10 days for Brexit delivery, I go to the shed, grab and fit it there and then etc.

I'm in a similar boat with my ztt. It's sat years now. I've spent over £1000 in parts and the car is filled, and it hasn't even started yet.

Its going to need paint and a sill now. But I've decided to do it gradually. To mot it, it's gonna take a solid 20 hours work between timing belts etc, plus all other stuff it needs. And to get it looking good again a full respray will be the end goal, but I'm far from that now.

Tell the misses, it's your car, it's your hobby, and it's an appreciating classic car.

I'd look at multicar policy to bring it down insurance wise. The tax will be the last thing when it's mot'd so just direct debit it for a year, set the same amount aside each month (I always say road tax is the same as a domino's meal or a round of drinks in the pub, so people need to stop making a big deal it, I don't drink so that's how I pay for my car hobby) and pay in full next time road.

To me this sounds like self induced stress, you need to look at the first step rather than all the steps.

Job one.

Exact costs.

Get your insurance quotes
Get your exact road tax
Get your exact mot costs

Tally that up.

OK now assess the car.
Any obvious signs.
What does it need.
What can you do yourself.
What can't you do.

Now you budget for any parts.

Say you need brake discs and pads, well that's a DIY job, get them on ebay.

Two hours will have that done. When you in there clean the brake lines down with a wire brush and copper grease them, clean anything else up and check for obvious stuff like bearings failing, tore gators etc.

Next it's a case of any work you can't do, say it needs a rear arm, well plenty for sale in this club and plenty of honest traders here can fit and supply. Remember if your insuranced and have your mot booked, your permitted to travel to a registered mechanic to have work preformed on the car for its mot providing the car is in reasonable safe condition.

Ok so let's say you have it all done, take car for mot, get lucky, passes, wolla, there you go.

Honestly it sounds like your sitting there thinking too much and not doing enough. Put that energy into getting out to the car and starting the work and project. Don't sit and feel stress, sit and use that energy to search ebay, auto doc etc for parts.

Think of the joy you will have in the next few months driving her again in the summer.

Also can I add, even my main car insurance here in Northern Ireland with 21 years ncb, no points ever etc is just under £400 so your insurance is again manageable.

This is entirely achievable for you, it sounds to me like your just in a stress mess over it all and lost your way.
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Old 11th May 2021, 10:09   #4
Vossy
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I have spent much more than my car is worth (ZT Cdti) over the last 12 months on parts alone, my son is a mechanic and so he does do a lot for me which helps but I am always doing running stuff on it.

This just reminds me of my cousin who had always ran an older car, in particular an S class Merc, he loved it and it was a stunner. His significant other decided they needed a bigger car and his Merc was now 15 years old and because of grandkids ets, so off he goes and buys a 3 year old BMW X3, in reality it wasn't any bigger inside than the Merc, besides the cost of buying it he recently had to take it for new brakes, no change from almost a grand and that wasn't at BMW.

The servicing he cannot do himself now either, too many electronic bits and bobs.

Cheaper tax certainly but he has also had someone try to steal it twice which resulted in damage that he has paid to have repaired.

Over and above his old Merc that he ran I reckon he is easily over 30k out of pocket because of a newer car, I've told him to change the wife and buy an older car again.

My car isn't perfect by far, it needs the wheels refurbed now and maybe at some point a steering rack, sometimes it seems an endless task and I'm always finding something to fix/update to make it look better.
The brakes are coming up for renewal I reckon too and that's not long after new tyres all round and four wheel alignment.
All of these things I would also have to have on a newer car, they are just consumables, all cars need them.

I like that when i drive my ZT around I do not see many of them at all, X3's, Ford Kuga. Kia Sportage and all other euroboxes are ten a penny, I feel a little special
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Old 11th May 2021, 10:40   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vossy View Post
I have spent much more than my car is worth (ZT Cdti) over the last 12 months on parts alone, my son is a mechanic and so he does do a lot for me which helps but I am always doing running stuff on it.
I own a preserved double decker bus and hate to think how much I have spend on this over the years, I mean it does around 8 mpg and has a 55 gallon fuel tank for a start...

I am lucky that I have been able to do pretty much everything on it myself, including engine rebuild after it wrecked a couple of pistons and a repaint twice since I've owned it - coach painted, so you would be looking at few £k for a decent job on this for a start. Had four new tyres on the rear a couple of years back and that was just over £1k.

To me, I have the vehicles I have because I enjoy them. I have my dad's Volvo 740, nothing special just a 2l auto, won't win any Grand Prix away from the lights, is probably worse for fuel economy around town than my ZT but being an estate is a good work horse, but has recently developed lacquer peel on the roof so will probably look at getting this resprayed - again won't add any value to the car, but spoils the look of it to me.
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Old 11th May 2021, 10:59   #6
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With only around 150 190SE’s made and only around 80 left on the road or SORNed, then the car is a very rare one indeed.
Spending a little money on getting it back on the road will be more than worth it and with someone like Footman James, you could get insured as a classic with an assured pay out price on it.
Good examples on a standard 190 are around the £2k mark.
To replace your 190SE with one of the same specs (that’s what issuance is meant to do) would cost you in the region of £2,500 to £3,000 to replace.
So YES, spend the money as the value of the car will only go up
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Old 11th May 2021, 11:59   #7
cbr1100xx
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Been in exactly the same situation recently with front suspension and then rear suspension.
It's my daily drive so couldn't be without a car.
I had 2 options.
1 spend £2500 on a car I don't know and probably don't like or
2 spend just under 500 on this car knowing that it shouldn't need doing again for a few years.

No brainer really , but when you tot up what you want to spend also think 6 months in advance as well , what's coming up in the future also plays a big part.

In the last couple of years I have replaced all the front suspension, then a clutch and most recently all the rear suspension.
Still need to do the sills and also spent a lot on some new seats.

Value of the car now......probably about 500 due to the 257000 miles.

Stan
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Old 11th May 2021, 12:10   #8
Robson Rover Repair
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Ivw always maintained and never is it more important that this club should offer official valuations for club members, even if from an insurance write off point of view.

From sales to insurance situations it would be nice to have a certified document stating

"based on production figures, specifications, and overall condition, service history and maintenance / upgrades, as of xxxx date we the club feel this vehicle is worth no less than xxxx amount on the open market"
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Old 11th May 2021, 12:33   #9
victorgte
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Put another way.
My modern Peugeot has had essential money spent on it since I bought it in October 2019.
Cam belt
Water pump
Aux belt
4 tyres initially and just put 2 new ones on the front
2 full services
Windscreen wipers x3 including the rear one

It runs superb and is totally reliable. Turns 50+ mpg all day long.

Now the killer. Since October 2019 it has dropped in value from 4K to about 2.5k.
Can’t hold back depreciation.
At least with the 75 and ZT they may be able to hold their value I bit longer or depreciate less quickly.
All cars need the list I made above to be done. Neither my ZT or Peugeot will sell for a price where I get back all I’ve spent.
I look at the ZT as a hobby that transports me everyday.
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Old 11th May 2021, 12:55   #10
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I would imagine that for many on here the ZT / 75 is a hobby and perhaps costs are not the greatest consideration. Others like myself also have one as daily driver - in my case a ZT CDTi that averages 25k per year. Not particularly bothered how shiny it is so long as it is ultra reliable which it generally is.


My other hobby is railways and some of you are aware of my sole ownership of a standard guage steam locomotive. It last was in service on 31/12/20 and is now under overhaul: costs so far are not far short of £20k to include construction of a complete new 1,200 gallon (saddletank aka water tank), complete new smokebox and door, full set of boiler tubes, new mag drill (110v and mid sized industrial), two lots of road transport for the tank, paint and smaller bits. This all before the main boiler overhaul and replacement of the big end brasses - to give you an idea of scale, the cylinders are 18" diameter with a 26" stroke x 2 and the engine weighs 49 tons. Someone once said "to own a steam locomotive is the best way of turning a large fortune into a small one". Personally never had the former but as regards the latter i would be financially better off but over 40 years of ownership the enjoyment to me at any rate is incalculable.


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