KV6 190 engine update

GeoffK · 24th April 2015, 07:34

Hi Chaps.

Still waiting for the heads to come back from being flowed and ported but I have just got the front vernier pulleys back from the machinist, they've made a fabulous job of them.

They cost £300 for the pair which I think is very reasonable considering the work involved. If anyone wants the detailed drawings let me know.

I have yet to strip the rest of the block, get everything cleaned and have it all checked out.

Since the liners and pistons are the same as the K series 1.8 VVC I'm going to get a set of forged pistons and have the crank/flywheel balanced. There's no point in doing a half job.

Geoff

rrobson · 24th April 2015, 09:15

Best of luck with the project, it's good to hear someone's looking into the kv6.

The only potential problem I can see you'd may have is the crankshaft. As its nothing special it will limit the power. While you shot in bits is look into a forged one.

I wasn't aware the Pistons and liners were the same though... That's a bit of useful info

minimutly · 24th April 2015, 09:36

Wow there! The liners may be the same but the Pistons arent. I can't remember exactly, it may be pin to crown height is the issue, which is easily fixed if you order made to order Pistons.
I'll have a look later,
Huw

minimutly · 24th April 2015, 09:47

On the pulleys and crank, are the pulleys modified std ones? (Would appreciate drawings). In the past I've made adjustable ones from two std ones successfully (rover t series, before you could buy them and I hadn't realized that vauxhall red tops would fit).
On the crank, any v6 crank will be inherently stiff, the kv6 is an offset BE, so it's not ideal, but unless your going to combined BE, and uneven firing (new cams, ecu etc), you're stuck with it. It wouldn't be bothering me, unless the engine is going to be turning seriously high rpm it'll be fine(IMHO). Also, be careful if you're changing the con rods, you might need to relieve quite a bit from the inside of the block to make them fit.
Huw

minimutly · 24th April 2015, 12:32

Just checked, v6 piston is 5mm or so taller, so unless you're supercharging, they're no good

GeoffK · 25th April 2015, 08:42

Hi Chaps. Thanks for all the info.

Regarding the piston liner issue, Mr Rimmer shows the same part number, LCJ000050LKIT, on the KV6 2.5 and the K series 1.8 VVC which means I can get a forged set for the 1.8 VVC plus two extra of course.

I've not entirely made my mind up about forged pistons. The K series VVC puts out 160BHP, 40 BHP per piston and I'm aiming for 220 BHP which is 36 BHP each for the V6 at less peak RPM so in theory the stock pistons should be OK unless anyone thinks otherwise?

Hi minimutly. The pulleys are the originals modified, please see attached PDF drawings. They use just the outer part of the pulley and the center boss. I have yet to get the rear pulleys done but they look a lot simpler to do. Have you got any thoughts about removing the dampers on the rear cam pulleys??

I think the crank should be OK, the block is nice and stiff and if it's well balanced it should be fine with new (Loctited) rod and mains bolts.

The cams are Piper fast road using a re mapped ECU so the peak revs will stay the same but I will get the crank, front pulley, steel flywheel and clutch cover balanced even though the balancing is pretty good as is.

The oil pump is going to be re worked and flowed and all the oilways cleaned up, well, the best that can be done plus the block is to be de-burred and the waterways cleaned up.

Is there any news on the all metal clutch slave?
I'm not putting that horrid plastic one back! I've had one explode on me already. Also has anyone considered the release bearing itself, it doesn't look very inspiring. I'm going to see if I can get a beefed up bearing, how hard can it be!

Geoff.

minimutly · 25th April 2015, 09:29

The updated liners will be ductile iron, instead of the cast ones. There's only one company that makes them, ooo, can't remember the name, but uk based - wildwood or somethiing like that.
I agree Pistons should be fine, just check the pins haven't moved.
I'd leave the damper pulleys as they are, just figure a way of offsetting them.
Huw

Anon3 · 26th April 2015, 09:29

Just a couple of thoughts, so I'm subscribed to the thread :-)

Vernier pulleys eh?
Nice and agreed, that's a reasonable price given the work.

Given all the balancing work you're having done and the cost for the cams

is the same, I was wondering why you might not have gone for the "ultimate road" cams, with a fair amount of extra lift, but with not too much increase in top end engine speed?

Is it because you're not convinced the engine will stand it or is it more that you don't want to lose any more bottom end?

I'm just wondering what it is exactly that you want to achieve and want to wish you luck with this project.
It seems there's very little been done on the KV6's (that I've seen anyway).

GeoffK · 26th April 2015, 10:38

Hi Huw.

Westwood do the liners, very nice they are too but at what price. I think for the state of tune I'm going for standard liners will be okay. I'm just drawing up the rear vernier pulleys, I'll post that when they are done. They should be a lot simpler to do than the fronts.

Hi Anon3.

Well I could have gone for the Piper ARKV6BP285H cams which revs to 6800 and that would mean forged pistons are a must, then an Emerald ECU along with higher flow injectors and perhaps throttle bodies. Bigger inlet valves and pocketed pistons will be needed and perhaps steel rods and all for maybe another 20-25bhp.

Then the power wouldn't come in till about 4.5k at which point it will blow up the gearbox assuming the torque steer hasn't put the car in a hedge.

Then there's the fuel economy, or lack thereof --- what do we reccon 15mpg!

I want a quick car but one that has manners and is predictable plus it has to be reliable. I'm aiming for 220 bhp because that's what the blown MGZT puts out but that has issues.

I love the KV6, a cracking engine with character and I love the ZT, I've had 3 of them and I want my current ZT-T to have a bit more zing but not lose the flexibility.

Salad-Dodger · 26th April 2015, 10:49

A very sensible way to go Geofffk. If you want to go to the moon, get a rocket!
Is there anyone who has used this KV6 for competition?
I'm interested in a few common faults I have had with other engines that may be a factor in this one. I'd prefer to go away and read first before I make any comments but you sound like you've done a bit of research already. Steve

24th April 2015, 09:15	#2
rrobson I really should get out more....... 75 tourer cdti, MG ZS 180, nissan terrano & 1.8t rover 25 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pontefract Posts: 2,644 Thanks: 17 Thanked 295 Times in 218 Posts	Best of luck with the project, it's good to hear someone's looking into the kv6. The only potential problem I can see you'd may have is the crankshaft. As its nothing special it will limit the power. While you shot in bits is look into a forged one. I wasn't aware the Pistons and liners were the same though... That's a bit of useful info __________________ How to view a car - everything you need to help you inspect a used car VIS motor tester avalible to local members Injector removal tool and auto gearbox pressure tester now available

26th April 2015, 09:29	#8
Anon3 Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Birmingham Posts: 1,392 Thanks: 199 Thanked 219 Times in 187 Posts	Just a couple of thoughts, so I'm subscribed to the thread :-) Vernier pulleys eh? Nice and agreed, that's a reasonable price given the work. Given all the balancing work you're having done and the cost for the cams is the same, I was wondering why you might not have gone for the "ultimate road" cams, with a fair amount of extra lift, but with not too much increase in top end engine speed? Is it because you're not convinced the engine will stand it or is it more that you don't want to lose any more bottom end? I'm just wondering what it is exactly that you want to achieve and want to wish you luck with this project. It seems there's very little been done on the KV6's (that I've seen anyway). __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Villa, Stella, Balti. It's Brummie latin that means, er...... Vis tester available to local V6 owners Last edited by Anon3; 26th April 2015 at 09:31..

26th April 2015, 10:38	#9
GeoffK Regular poster MG ZT-T Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Bexhill on Sea Posts: 48 Thanks: 13 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	KV6 engine update Hi Huw. Westwood do the liners, very nice they are too but at what price. I think for the state of tune I'm going for standard liners will be okay. I'm just drawing up the rear vernier pulleys, I'll post that when they are done. They should be a lot simpler to do than the fronts. Hi Anon3. Well I could have gone for the Piper ARKV6BP285H cams which revs to 6800 and that would mean forged pistons are a must, then an Emerald ECU along with higher flow injectors and perhaps throttle bodies. Bigger inlet valves and pocketed pistons will be needed and perhaps steel rods and all for maybe another 20-25bhp. Then the power wouldn't come in till about 4.5k at which point it will blow up the gearbox assuming the torque steer hasn't put the car in a hedge. Then there's the fuel economy, or lack thereof --- what do we reccon 15mpg! I want a quick car but one that has manners and is predictable plus it has to be reliable. I'm aiming for 220 bhp because that's what the blown MGZT puts out but that has issues. I love the KV6, a cracking engine with character and I love the ZT, I've had 3 of them and I want my current ZT-T to have a bit more zing but not lose the flexibility.

24th April 2015, 09:36	#3
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	Wow there! The liners may be the same but the Pistons arent. I can't remember exactly, it may be pin to crown height is the issue, which is easily fixed if you order made to order Pistons. I'll have a look later, Huw

24th April 2015, 09:47	#4
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	On the pulleys and crank, are the pulleys modified std ones? (Would appreciate drawings). In the past I've made adjustable ones from two std ones successfully (rover t series, before you could buy them and I hadn't realized that vauxhall red tops would fit). On the crank, any v6 crank will be inherently stiff, the kv6 is an offset BE, so it's not ideal, but unless your going to combined BE, and uneven firing (new cams, ecu etc), you're stuck with it. It wouldn't be bothering me, unless the engine is going to be turning seriously high rpm it'll be fine(IMHO). Also, be careful if you're changing the con rods, you might need to relieve quite a bit from the inside of the block to make them fit. Huw

24th April 2015, 12:32	#5
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	Just checked, v6 piston is 5mm or so taller, so unless you're supercharging, they're no good

25th April 2015, 09:29	#7
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	The updated liners will be ductile iron, instead of the cast ones. There's only one company that makes them, ooo, can't remember the name, but uk based - wildwood or somethiing like that. I agree Pistons should be fine, just check the pins haven't moved. I'd leave the damper pulleys as they are, just figure a way of offsetting them. Huw

26th April 2015, 10:49	#10
Salad-Dodger Gets stuck in MG ZT-T 190 Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Chatham Posts: 592 Thanks: 34 Thanked 66 Times in 62 Posts	A very sensible way to go Geofffk. If you want to go to the moon, get a rocket! Is there anyone who has used this KV6 for competition? I'm interested in a few common faults I have had with other engines that may be a factor in this one. I'd prefer to go away and read first before I make any comments but you sound like you've done a bit of research already. Steve