Help with refitting front suspension arm - Page 3

Cantray · 17th September 2021, 16:27

Thanks RB
yes, yes, and yes.
It's most peculiar. even when bracket appears perfectly aligned the bolts wont thread.
I'll sleep on it - again. But I think the subframe will have to come off if I'm going to keep the scrapyard at bay.

SD1too · 17th September 2021, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantray

Another 2 hours on this today and no closer to fixing. With hub off got a bit more movement in wishbone to align bush holder almost perfectly, but bolts will still not thread.

I have checked my notes and I too had the hub disconnected from the steering arm, suspension arm outer balljoint and strut (because I was fitting new springs at the same time). I then moved the hub backwards in the wheelarch and turned it outwards to facilitate manoeuvring the suspension arm.

If you did the same then the arm is restrained only by the inner balljoint. It can pivot about that mounting in most directions but not from front to rear of the car. So if your bush housing bolts are not starting in their thread then surely there must be a small error in the longitudinal positioning of the housing on the arm.

In situations like this I find it useful to look through the hole to check alignment but that's not easy in this case without a mirror. Another way is to run a slender pin down the inside of the housing's mounting holes and all the way around to see if it continues into the threaded subframe or perhaps hits the top of the subframe instead.

I can't think of any other reason other than misalignment which would result in the difficulty you're having.

Simon

Cantray · 17th September 2021, 17:58

Thanks thats very interesting Simon and confirms some of my findings. I can line up bush mount and subframe very accurately with mirror and light, but still no success. As previous post, without the bush mount to deal with, the bolts almost fall into the threads. Frustrating!

xsport · 17th September 2021, 18:55

its also important to make sure as you enter the thread, that you are square on to the tapped hole. sometimes you can be slightly out in any radial angle direction . also as i noticed during my last replacement that although the bolts are the same diameter threads , the two drilled holes for the bush mounting bolts are actually two different sizes. which would explain why, according to rave, they say to access one hole sequence first before the other. as its larger and therefore probably easier to locate. ...

SD1too · 17th September 2021, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsport

...according to rave, they say to access one hole sequence first before the other. as its larger and therefore probably easier to locate. ...

Hi Stefan,

I have RAVE but have not seen this. Can you give me the page reference please?

Simon

xsport · 17th September 2021, 19:47

provided you have fitted the bush to the arm at the correct axis lines on the arm and casting beforehand, and the arm is disconnected from the hub and clear of the hub(you can push the arm forwards out of the way) then you should be able to locate the bolts. if you can see with your mirror that the holes are not showing an "eclips" on the threads then your entry angle with the bolts is wrong. this may not seem obvious at first but i think this might be your problem. its not easy to judge as they are threaded at an angle to the subframe. try again in the larger bush mountaing hole first, with slight tilts of angle. the other thing to mention is the holding of the bush with your mole grips on the bush upright helps to try different angles as you can see if the bush is parallel to the frame and bush base. try rotating the bolt anti clockwise until you hear a "click" which denotes the threads starting point , and then try forward... by hand of course ...

xsport · 17th September 2021, 20:00

hi simon. i dont have rave on this p.c , i have only the downloaded sections from a member on here. the wording in my post is not taken literally from rave word for word. however it does set out the sequence of removal and assembly. it does mention the order of play and can be found under suspension kv6. can you fish it out and recheck what i have said regarding the bolt holes as im sure there is reference to assembly on this, which i presume was the reasoning yet it is not stated that the holes are indeed different sizes. the hole sizes have been overlooked and not noticed i think but may play a part in assembly. ... regards stefan.

SD1too · 17th September 2021, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsport

... i have only the downloaded sections from a member on here. the wording in my post is not taken literally from rave ... it does mention the order of play ... can you fish it out and recheck what i have said regarding the bolt holes ...

Hi Stefan,

Of course. I have fished it out and I'm afraid that you have been misled by the other member. There is no reference in RAVE to different sizes or to a sequence to be observed. The two bolts are the same size, so are the threaded holes in the subframe and they can be fitted in any order.

Regards,

Simon

xsport · 17th September 2021, 20:56

yes i agree simon. the point i was trying to make was that the two drilled holes in the bush itself are indeed different sizes. i have checked this many times on at least 3 pairs of bushes from different suppliers. i wanted to say that it may have helped with alignment whilst trying to start the thread off by using the large hole first. it may help a little. .....

Cantray · 22nd September 2021, 16:56

An update. Took a rest from this job for a few days. Today removed front strut and mobilised front hub upward and rearward to give more movement in wishbone. This was easy, had replaced the struts a couple of years back and all came off without fusss taking around 30 mins (remember I had spent several hours making zero progress trying to thread bush mount bolts in subframe, achieving nothing and getting very fed up). With strut out and hub mobilised I could adjust wishbone freely and had bush mount bolts threaded in less than 5 minutes. Praise the Lord. Now onto that large hole in the sill which has appeared since last MOT. And it is a very large hole. Where is the angle grinder?
Thank you to all of those who patiently advised. I hope this adds to the list of strategies for this one.

17th September 2021, 16:27	#21
Cantray Avid contributor Rover 75 1.8 Club SE, Rover 75 cdt Club, Rover 75 1.8 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Inverness Posts: 163 Thanks: 48 Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Thanks RB yes, yes, and yes. It's most peculiar. even when bracket appears perfectly aligned the bolts wont thread. I'll sleep on it - again. But I think the subframe will have to come off if I'm going to keep the scrapyard at bay.

17th September 2021, 17:58	#23
Cantray Avid contributor Rover 75 1.8 Club SE, Rover 75 cdt Club, Rover 75 1.8 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Inverness Posts: 163 Thanks: 48 Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts	Thanks thats very interesting Simon and confirms some of my findings. I can line up bush mount and subframe very accurately with mirror and light, but still no success. As previous post, without the bush mount to deal with, the bolts almost fall into the threads. Frustrating!

17th September 2021, 18:55	#24
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,644 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	its also important to make sure as you enter the thread, that you are square on to the tapped hole. sometimes you can be slightly out in any radial angle direction . also as i noticed during my last replacement that although the bolts are the same diameter threads , the two drilled holes for the bush mounting bolts are actually two different sizes. which would explain why, according to rave, they say to access one hole sequence first before the other. as its larger and therefore probably easier to locate. ...

17th September 2021, 19:47	#26
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,644 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	provided you have fitted the bush to the arm at the correct axis lines on the arm and casting beforehand, and the arm is disconnected from the hub and clear of the hub(you can push the arm forwards out of the way) then you should be able to locate the bolts. if you can see with your mirror that the holes are not showing an "eclips" on the threads then your entry angle with the bolts is wrong. this may not seem obvious at first but i think this might be your problem. its not easy to judge as they are threaded at an angle to the subframe. try again in the larger bush mountaing hole first, with slight tilts of angle. the other thing to mention is the holding of the bush with your mole grips on the bush upright helps to try different angles as you can see if the bush is parallel to the frame and bush base. try rotating the bolt anti clockwise until you hear a "click" which denotes the threads starting point , and then try forward... by hand of course ...

17th September 2021, 20:00	#27
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,644 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	hi simon. i dont have rave on this p.c , i have only the downloaded sections from a member on here. the wording in my post is not taken literally from rave word for word. however it does set out the sequence of removal and assembly. it does mention the order of play and can be found under suspension kv6. can you fish it out and recheck what i have said regarding the bolt holes as im sure there is reference to assembly on this, which i presume was the reasoning yet it is not stated that the holes are indeed different sizes. the hole sizes have been overlooked and not noticed i think but may play a part in assembly. ... regards stefan.

17th September 2021, 20:56	#29
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,644 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	yes i agree simon. the point i was trying to make was that the two drilled holes in the bush itself are indeed different sizes. i have checked this many times on at least 3 pairs of bushes from different suppliers. i wanted to say that it may have helped with alignment whilst trying to start the thread off by using the large hole first. it may help a little. .....

22nd September 2021, 16:56	#30
Cantray Avid contributor Rover 75 1.8 Club SE, Rover 75 cdt Club, Rover 75 1.8 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Inverness Posts: 163 Thanks: 48 Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts	An update. Took a rest from this job for a few days. Today removed front strut and mobilised front hub upward and rearward to give more movement in wishbone. This was easy, had replaced the struts a couple of years back and all came off without fusss taking around 30 mins (remember I had spent several hours making zero progress trying to thread bush mount bolts in subframe, achieving nothing and getting very fed up). With strut out and hub mobilised I could adjust wishbone freely and had bush mount bolts threaded in less than 5 minutes. Praise the Lord. Now onto that large hole in the sill which has appeared since last MOT. And it is a very large hole. Where is the angle grinder? Thank you to all of those who patiently advised. I hope this adds to the list of strategies for this one.