Not good. - Page 3

Spenrex · 24th November 2015, 19:45

Things are not always as they seem. The Russians have been heavily bombing the Turkmen population of this part of Syria who are part of the moderate opposition to Assad that we in the West have been supporting along with Turkey. Turkey have for many days been requesting that Russia stops bombing the Syrian Turkmen population and concentrate their efforts on Isis. Unfortunately as ever Putin has his own agenda which is to divide NATO which by some of the previous posts appears to be working. We need to concentrate all of our efforts confronting Isis and not being drawn in by Putin's malicious and dangerous games!

Leyland Worldmaster · 24th November 2015, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcat

Breaking news

'Hostage situation' in northern French town of Roubaix
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34917226

I was going to go to Belgium this Friday... Plans cancelled by Alison- binding brake caliper- glad she did. We actually pass VERY close to the French town mentioned when we go there...

coolcat · 25th November 2015, 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leyland Worldmaster

I was going to go to Belgium this Friday... Plans cancelled by Alison- binding brake caliper- glad she did. We actually pass VERY close to the French town mentioned when we go there...

Hopefully things will all calm down and get back to normal.
There's always next time Stu

ihoo · 25th November 2015, 09:54

Second pilot rescued! Defence minister said this.

Lancpudn · 25th November 2015, 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihoo

Second pilot rescued! Defence minister said this.

That's good news.

wraymond · 25th November 2015, 11:20

It’s very worrying, but even more worrying when the general public form strongly put views without corroborated evidence of what actually happened. Many wars have started because of the lack of information rather than with a full and effective understanding of events. For instance, I recommend a good reading of Ottoman/Russo history and the continuing sensitivities of the two huge empires that folded, leaving unfinished and continuing political difficulties.

In the present action it might be useful to remember the recent NATO warning to Russia that the alleged repeated incursions into Turkish air space were contrary to their membership of the group and should stop, which was ignored.

The latest shooting down of the ‘plane was after 10 warnings to the pilots of the two aircraft were given over a short time interval (all recorded real time and produced). One pilot broke away and diverted, the other continued on his flight path. Turkey immediately produced radar trace evidence of the flight path and position of the aircraft shot down. Further, it is alleged that the pilot who ejected was shot by ‘rebels’ and not the Turkish military.

Putin is fighting a lengthy battle domestically over the Russian economy and is always conscious of his vulnerability – it’s a tightrope in any country.

It appears Turkey responded legally, if not sensibly, to a very real and challenging incursion into its territory by an aggressive neighbour in troubled times and when Russia’s intentions are by no means clear.

Cool heads are called for in international diplomatic affairs, not sabre rattling, and tempers need to be tempered.

WillyHeckaslike · 25th November 2015, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Rover

The Turks shooting down the air craft was bad, but also killing the pilot as he ejected and was going to land. Disgraceful.

I too feel uncomfortable with the downing of the Russian jet in the circumstances so far reported and the killing of the pilot who no longer posed a threat is despicable and ethically no different to the killing by ISIS of the Jordanian pilot earlier this year. These type of killings contravene the Geneva Convention and I hope that those responsible are eventually brought to justice and that NATO and its allies think again about who they give support to.

FLYER · 25th November 2015, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillyHeckaslike

I too feel uncomfortable with the downing of the Russian jet in the circumstances so far reported and the killing of the pilot who no longer posed a threat is despicable and ethically no different to the killing by ISIS of the Jordanian pilot earlier this year. These type of killings contravene the Geneva Convention and I hope that those responsible are eventually brought to justice and that NATO and its allies think again about who they give support to.

I dont think the people who shot the pilot have ever heard of the Geneva Convention.

Thinking about it after seeing what happened to the young Jordanian pilot i think a bullet is better than being torched in a cage .

Lordy · 25th November 2015, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillyHeckaslike

I too feel uncomfortable with the downing of the Russian jet in the circumstances so far reported and the killing of the pilot who no longer posed a threat is despicable and ethically no different to the killing by ISIS of the Jordanian pilot earlier this year. These type of killings contravene the Geneva Convention and I hope that those responsible are eventually brought to justice and that NATO and its allies think again about who they give support to.

I agree with you, During WW2 the Luftwaffe and RAF were told, its not kills its destroying enemy aircraft.

If pilot ejects then there out of the fight and that's it. don't go around for other fly by and kill him while he was defenceless, there's no honour any of that and betrays the moral code in all aspects.

The pilot that killed the Russian airmen, I hope to god he gets punished, even better Russian SU33 Flankers go after him.

FLYER · 25th November 2015, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Rover

I agree with you, During WW2 the Luftwaffe and RAF were told, its not kills its destroying enemy aircraft.

If pilot ejects then there out of the fight and that's it. don't go around for other fly by and kill him while he was defenceless, there's no honour any of that and betrays the moral code in all aspects.

The pilot that killed the Russian airmen, I hope to god he gets punished, even better Russian SU33 Flankers go after him.

It was Turkman rebels that shot the pilot Davy .

25th November 2015, 09:54	#24
ihoo Regular poster Rover 75 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Russia Posts: 30 Thanks: 3 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Second pilot rescued! Defence minister said this. __________________ Sorry for my grammar

25th November 2015, 11:20	#26
wraymond This is my second home 75 Auto 2.5 SE Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Westcliff on Sea Posts: 5,195 Thanks: 423 Thanked 1,680 Times in 1,014 Posts	It’s very worrying, but even more worrying when the general public form strongly put views without corroborated evidence of what actually happened. Many wars have started because of the lack of information rather than with a full and effective understanding of events. For instance, I recommend a good reading of Ottoman/Russo history and the continuing sensitivities of the two huge empires that folded, leaving unfinished and continuing political difficulties. In the present action it might be useful to remember the recent NATO warning to Russia that the alleged repeated incursions into Turkish air space were contrary to their membership of the group and should stop, which was ignored. The latest shooting down of the ‘plane was after 10 warnings to the pilots of the two aircraft were given over a short time interval (all recorded real time and produced). One pilot broke away and diverted, the other continued on his flight path. Turkey immediately produced radar trace evidence of the flight path and position of the aircraft shot down. Further, it is alleged that the pilot who ejected was shot by ‘rebels’ and not the Turkish military. Putin is fighting a lengthy battle domestically over the Russian economy and is always conscious of his vulnerability – it’s a tightrope in any country. It appears Turkey responded legally, if not sensibly, to a very real and challenging incursion into its territory by an aggressive neighbour in troubled times and when Russia’s intentions are by no means clear. Cool heads are called for in international diplomatic affairs, not sabre rattling, and tempers need to be tempered. __________________ member no. 235

24th November 2015, 19:45	#21
Spenrex Avid contributor MG ZT-T Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Holmfirth Posts: 236 Thanks: 51 Thanked 39 Times in 30 Posts	Things are not always as they seem. The Russians have been heavily bombing the Turkmen population of this part of Syria who are part of the moderate opposition to Assad that we in the West have been supporting along with Turkey. Turkey have for many days been requesting that Russia stops bombing the Syrian Turkmen population and concentrate their efforts on Isis. Unfortunately as ever Putin has his own agenda which is to divide NATO which by some of the previous posts appears to be working. We need to concentrate all of our efforts confronting Isis and not being drawn in by Putin's malicious and dangerous games!