2004 Rover 75 CLUB LE 4D Sedan V6 auto - Immobiliser - Page 3

TramPower4000 · 14th November 2020, 04:11

Thankyou both, We've just returned from down South-West so time to answer your comments...

My 75/2004 is booked in on the 23rd (Monday fortnight) and they'll do a compression test on that day. 1. Have taken note of SD1too's comments re. clip and seal, airlock, and fins. Thanks for that. 2. Yes, sorry, I meant CO, not CO2. 3. Yes, I agree. Bizarrely it worries me also that the engine is actually running quite well. I'm looking forward to the compression test result. By the way that had another technical name that I can't remember; it was the 'Something Test'.

As for the filler cap, I replaced that with an original some months ago well before all this happened. I'm sure it's OK. I didn't see any pinkish colour, and the radiator is actually original and repaired. I haven't seen any leak from it on the ground. Nevertheless I'll ask the appropriate questions and get back. Thanks bl52krz. By the way, the car is going into an engine specialist shop that repaired the heads previously (before the water thermostat housing split - I wish I'd replaced that then with the Kaiser metal one!!!), not the shop that 'fixed' the fuel filter and fitted the new fuel pump. Both have said again definitely (and independently I think) that there's a problem with the head. I guess I'll have to take that at face value for now I suppose, but I'll bug them with questions.

By the way, the specialist says he'll source the correct gasket set (avoiding the original factory gasket that caused all those historical problems) but I'm a bit nervous about that. Discount MG Rover Spares have a set at https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/...t-kia-carnival

Do you think these would be OK? I am tempted to buy the set just to hand over to the specialist and see what he thinks.

Thanks both, and I'll get back as things progress!

SD1too · 14th November 2020, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by TramPower4000

... the car is going into an engine specialist shop that repaired the heads previously ...

Forgive me if I missed it Lewis but have you mentioned this before? How were the heads repaired, skimmed perhaps? Any work such as this raises another possible source of trouble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TramPower4000

... (before the water thermostat housing split - I wish I'd replaced that then with the Kaiser metal one!!!)...

Please see my earlier advice (post 14); the thermostat housing doesn't split although it does appear to have done at first sight. What happens is that the 'O' ring at the base flattens and pressurised coolant is emitted as a spray which coats the housing seam with residue leading to the incorrect diagnosis. The Kaiser metal parts are successful because they're rigid. You can obtain the same result by positioning the straight pipe "herbie" clips correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TramPower4000

... the specialist says he'll source the correct gasket set (avoiding the original factory gasket that caused all those historical problems) ...

Your specialist seems to be thinking of the Rover 825 KV6 engined cars. The 75/ZT version uses MLS gaskets which have never been problematic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TramPower4000

Discount MG Rover Spares have a set at https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/...t-kia-carnival
Do you think these would be OK?

No.

Simon

TramPower4000 · 14th November 2020, 11:17

Hi SD!too, yes sorry, the head gaskets have already been replaced once, at 78,000Km. At the beginning of this thread I'd simply not thought to mention it because the idea of a second head gasket failure was inconceivable. But yes, there was a previous failure; the engine stopped producing sufficient power and the temperature shot right up while on the freeway. Anyway, it was repaired and all seemed good, even after the thermostat housing failure (and overtemp) about a year later. The engine specialist put it down to a wrong head gasket fitted at manufacture. There was no evidence that the cooling system had failed (although there was a previous repair which had been done during a previous service, when a minor leak had been discovered (no overheating had occurred on that occasion). Sorry, should have mentioned that but it just didn't occur to me as relevant. Do you think it could be? ... I guess the heads were skimmed; that's what is always done when a gasket is replaced, right?

Talking of the thermostat housing, they told me that the housing had split along a 'plastic weld'.

OK, so the head gaskets at Discount MG Rover Spares are wrong. Thanks, I won't buy them. Actually I'll let the repairer source those.

Thanks again SD!too ... I'll get back when I know more in 10 days.

TramPower4000 · 31st January 2021, 22:28

Hello SD1too. Finally managed to book in my Rover to a repair shop. I'll take it there in a couple of weeks. Since my last post I've only driven it a couple of times for a short distance, not more than a kilometer. Weirdly, the engine starts easily and runs perfectly now, with plenty of response, power, and the engine temperature normal. However, after each drive the next morning I found oil in the coolant, a very slimy layer. Pulling it out I brushed it over a surface and it's definitely engine oil. The first time I've seen this. At all other times during this problem the coolant has been perfectly clean.

I guess this means that a gasket really has failed ...

Too bad, this will make head gasket replacement mark II ... !!

SD1too · 1st February 2021, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by TramPower4000

... I found oil in the coolant, a very slimy layer ... The first time I've seen this ... I guess this means that a gasket really has failed ...

As I've said before Lewis, I doubt that very much. It takes a lot of abuse to destroy an MLS head gasket but of course it depends upon the quality of the previous work in that area.

On the KV6 the oil cooler sometimes fails resulting in mixing. Also some owners have found that a damaged inlet manifold gasket has the same effect.

If I were you, as your engine starts easily, runs perfectly with plenty of response and power, I would cancel your garage booking and drive it regularly. Any fault symptoms should then become more apparent and easier to diagnose.

Simon

TramPower4000 · 1st February 2021, 10:41

OK, thanks for the advice Simon. I appreciate it. I'll consider my options again.

TramPower4000 · 12th July 2021, 05:34

Hi SD1too. Well, it appears you were almost certainly correct. Eventually, after oil was contaminating the coolant more and more, the repair shops (X2) emphatically advised that the head gasket was damaged, even though I suggested a number of times that the oil-water heat exchanger (which they called the 'oil cooler') may be the culprit. Both shops denied this. So the original shop replaced the head gaskets, saying both were damaged (who really knows).

Oil then reappeared in the water. To make a long story short, it transpired that the oil cooler was indeed damaged, and leaking oil into the coolant. Indeed, oil started leaking onto the road from the oil cooler! After replacement of the oil cooler (by a different shop) I was advised that the oil would continue to appear in the coolant for a while due to oil contamination in the cabin heater circuit, which apparently is a monster to remove and wash out.

Anyway, I'll see what happens. The engine is running well after its second head gasket job!! And the oil contamination seems decreasing. Thanks again for your advice and suggestions ...

SD1too · 12th July 2021, 13:48

Thank you very much Lewis for your kind words and for updating the story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TramPower4000

After replacement of the oil cooler (by a different shop) I was advised that the oil would continue to appear in the coolant for a while due to oil contamination in the cabin heater circuit, which apparently is a monster to remove and wash out.

Indeed it is, and there is an alternative to removal; repeated flushing of the cooling system with an additive likely to absorb the oil residue. This is best done by bringing the engine up to normal operating temperature each time so that the thermostat opens and every corner is reached.

Simon

TramPower4000 · 13th July 2021, 00:42

Thanks again Simon, I'll get that done after the rains finish. In the meantime I've been removing the oil with blotting paper at the water filling point. Using heaps of paper so the oil is decreasing with every 10 km's or so. In the meantime I've got a problem with my ABS faulting after heavy rain and flooding roads, but I'll use a different thread for that. Lew

TramPower4000 · 14th July 2022, 09:46

Hi Simon, and all others who have assisted with this. Since my last post the car has been running really, really well and nicely, albeit oil is still being removed by the dipping paper into the radiator tank method. Looking back on it I wished I'd pushed the oil cooler theory (as you suggested) more strongly with the repair shops involved, but thems the breaks! (And they weren't listening anyway) Anyway, after two head gasket replacement efforts I decided to sell the car. Which was a pity 'cos I loved it, and it looked great with its new refreshing black paint job. It was such a yank! I got a really good price for it, and I did it properly, telling the new owner the lengthy and unending history of unserviceabilities with my loved 75. So thanks again all! The new owner is actually displaying it at British car shows in the south-west of Western Australia!!! He loves it too. Cheers and signing off ....

[email protected]

12th July 2021, 05:34	#27
TramPower4000 Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 18 Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts	Hi SD1too. Well, it appears you were almost certainly correct. Eventually, after oil was contaminating the coolant more and more, the repair shops (X2) emphatically advised that the head gasket was damaged, even though I suggested a number of times that the oil-water heat exchanger (which they called the 'oil cooler') may be the culprit. Both shops denied this. So the original shop replaced the head gaskets, saying both were damaged (who really knows). Oil then reappeared in the water. To make a long story short, it transpired that the oil cooler was indeed damaged, and leaking oil into the coolant. Indeed, oil started leaking onto the road from the oil cooler! After replacement of the oil cooler (by a different shop) I was advised that the oil would continue to appear in the coolant for a while due to oil contamination in the cabin heater circuit, which apparently is a monster to remove and wash out. Anyway, I'll see what happens. The engine is running well after its second head gasket job!! And the oil contamination seems decreasing. Thanks again for your advice and suggestions ... Last edited by TramPower4000; 12th July 2021 at 05:40..

14th November 2020, 04:11	#21
TramPower4000 Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 18 Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts	Thankyou both, We've just returned from down South-West so time to answer your comments... My 75/2004 is booked in on the 23rd (Monday fortnight) and they'll do a compression test on that day. 1. Have taken note of SD1too's comments re. clip and seal, airlock, and fins. Thanks for that. 2. Yes, sorry, I meant CO, not CO2. 3. Yes, I agree. Bizarrely it worries me also that the engine is actually running quite well. I'm looking forward to the compression test result. By the way that had another technical name that I can't remember; it was the 'Something Test'. As for the filler cap, I replaced that with an original some months ago well before all this happened. I'm sure it's OK. I didn't see any pinkish colour, and the radiator is actually original and repaired. I haven't seen any leak from it on the ground. Nevertheless I'll ask the appropriate questions and get back. Thanks bl52krz. By the way, the car is going into an engine specialist shop that repaired the heads previously (before the water thermostat housing split - I wish I'd replaced that then with the Kaiser metal one!!!), not the shop that 'fixed' the fuel filter and fitted the new fuel pump. Both have said again definitely (and independently I think) that there's a problem with the head. I guess I'll have to take that at face value for now I suppose, but I'll bug them with questions. By the way, the specialist says he'll source the correct gasket set (avoiding the original factory gasket that caused all those historical problems) but I'm a bit nervous about that. Discount MG Rover Spares have a set at https://www.dmgrs.co.uk/collections/...t-kia-carnival Do you think these would be OK? I am tempted to buy the set just to hand over to the specialist and see what he thinks. Thanks both, and I'll get back as things progress!

14th November 2020, 11:17	#23
TramPower4000 Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 18 Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts	Hi SD!too, yes sorry, the head gaskets have already been replaced once, at 78,000Km. At the beginning of this thread I'd simply not thought to mention it because the idea of a second head gasket failure was inconceivable. But yes, there was a previous failure; the engine stopped producing sufficient power and the temperature shot right up while on the freeway. Anyway, it was repaired and all seemed good, even after the thermostat housing failure (and overtemp) about a year later. The engine specialist put it down to a wrong head gasket fitted at manufacture. There was no evidence that the cooling system had failed (although there was a previous repair which had been done during a previous service, when a minor leak had been discovered (no overheating had occurred on that occasion). Sorry, should have mentioned that but it just didn't occur to me as relevant. Do you think it could be? ... I guess the heads were skimmed; that's what is always done when a gasket is replaced, right? Talking of the thermostat housing, they told me that the housing had split along a 'plastic weld'. OK, so the head gaskets at Discount MG Rover Spares are wrong. Thanks, I won't buy them. Actually I'll let the repairer source those. Thanks again SD!too ... I'll get back when I know more in 10 days.

31st January 2021, 22:28	#24
TramPower4000 Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 18 Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts	Hello SD1too. Finally managed to book in my Rover to a repair shop. I'll take it there in a couple of weeks. Since my last post I've only driven it a couple of times for a short distance, not more than a kilometer. Weirdly, the engine starts easily and runs perfectly now, with plenty of response, power, and the engine temperature normal. However, after each drive the next morning I found oil in the coolant, a very slimy layer. Pulling it out I brushed it over a surface and it's definitely engine oil. The first time I've seen this. At all other times during this problem the coolant has been perfectly clean. I guess this means that a gasket really has failed ... Too bad, this will make head gasket replacement mark II ... !!

1st February 2021, 10:41	#26
TramPower4000 Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 18 Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts	OK, thanks for the advice Simon. I appreciate it. I'll consider my options again.

13th July 2021, 00:42	#29
TramPower4000 Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 18 Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks again Simon, I'll get that done after the rains finish. In the meantime I've been removing the oil with blotting paper at the water filling point. Using heaps of paper so the oil is decreasing with every 10 km's or so. In the meantime I've got a problem with my ABS faulting after heavy rain and flooding roads, but I'll use a different thread for that. Lew

14th July 2022, 09:46	#30
TramPower4000 Newbie Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 28 Thanks: 18 Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts	Hi Simon, and all others who have assisted with this. Since my last post the car has been running really, really well and nicely, albeit oil is still being removed by the dipping paper into the radiator tank method. Looking back on it I wished I'd pushed the oil cooler theory (as you suggested) more strongly with the repair shops involved, but thems the breaks! (And they weren't listening anyway) Anyway, after two head gasket replacement efforts I decided to sell the car. Which was a pity 'cos I loved it, and it looked great with its new refreshing black paint job. It was such a yank! I got a really good price for it, and I did it properly, telling the new owner the lengthy and unending history of unserviceabilities with my loved 75. So thanks again all! The new owner is actually displaying it at British car shows in the south-west of Western Australia!!! He loves it too. Cheers and signing off .... [email protected]