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Old 9th September 2010, 22:20   #1
crashmarks
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Default Diesel thermostat definative answer

Regarding my enquiries with the UK technical manager into whether BMW ever used a hotter thermostat in the M47R engine, this is the reply I have received. This comes from the BMW development engineers in Germany.

The M47R, as we called the engine, was different to the engine for the
320D. For the Rover ( 75) and Land Rover ( Freelander) application we
used the first common rail injection system.
I went back into my documentation and have spoken to the "older"
colleagues in the development about the "cold" running engine.
We have never used different Thermostat during the life span of the
entire M47 engine ( D and R), so we do not have different thermostats to
choose from. We have introduced different thermostats for the late M57
D.
Anyway, we are sure, you cannot change the behavior of the engine with a different thermostat. At the time when we introduced the direct
injection diesel engine we had problems to get the engine to proper
working temperature, because it was so efficient.

We remember that we had big problems to get enough heat for the
passenger compartment heating, therefore we had additional heating.
Basically it would not help to get a different thermostat, because the
engine will not deliver more heat and therefore the operation
temperature of the thermostat does not matter.

I assume the cars are mostly driven in cities and will not get too much
load on the engines. There is no other way to get the engine to hotter temperatures as to put load on them ( faster driving or uphill driving !).
Sorry for this disappointing news , but if they want to play with
thermostats, then I would recommend that they will take one out of the
car and go to a spare part depot and have a look if they can find
another one from a different car, which will fit. At that time, the
supplier used mostly the same design for different car manufacturer.

BMW Group UK

So thats it boys back to the drawing board
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Old 9th September 2010, 22:26   #2
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Hmmm... So what about partially blocking off the radiator? An old trick I know, but one that has worked for me in the past on other cars?
...
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Old 9th September 2010, 22:48   #3
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Default

Ok
I bet the UK manager hasn't got a solution to the engine whine noise on the overrun either

Thanks for speaking to him
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Old 9th September 2010, 22:53   #4
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Having now pondered the reply i have just sent them another note asking what cars they put the M57D in. Having regard to the last paragraph of their reply, if the thermostat manufacturer used the same design and there was a 92 degree for the M57 engine it may fit ! Perhaps somebody who has a spare / old thermostat (which I dont) could pop into the BMW dealer and compare them. mmmmmm food for thought.
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Old 10th September 2010, 21:38   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashmarks View Post
Having now pondered the reply i have just sent them another note asking what cars they put the M57D in. Having regard to the last paragraph of their reply, if the thermostat manufacturer used the same design and there was a 92 degree for the M57 engine it may fit ! Perhaps somebody who has a spare / old thermostat (which I dont) could pop into the BMW dealer and compare them. mmmmmm food for thought.
I can answer that, Crashmarks. Using the part number on the thermostat I've found that the same one was used in the X5 3.0 D (M57 engine). I've seen one web site that shows it was used in 77 different models by various manufacturers, including Opel and Range Rover diesels! You'll note that all the other engines in which it's used seem to be bigger than ours. The original in the X5 was apparently notorious for failing. It appears that the revised thermostat still opens at 88C, though.
I believe that the thermostat alone is or was available in Europe as a separate item but my local BMW place was unable to trace the part, even with the part number. In the UK you can only get the thermostat for the M57 as a complete unit with housing and I doubt whether that would bolt straight on. This may mean that you'd have to buy the complete unit and transplant the thermostat.
I've now given up with BMW and I've turned my attention to the manufacturers, Behr and Wahler (I'm not sure if Motorrad actually make anything or whether they're just the spares arm of BMW. I'll write to them though, just in case). Behr's web site is very welcoming. They say, "What can we do for you? Give us a challenge! We will be glad to provide more information on our products". We'll see if they live up to that.
If anyone is interested in doing any dabbling, the relevant BMW part numbers are:
11 51 7 787 052
11 51 7 787 113
11 51 7 789 014
11 51 7 805 811
Someone might be able to trace the thermostat alone as a Range Rover, Opel or some other manufacturers' spare, rather than BMW's.

I REPEAT, I BELIEVE IT MAY ONLY BE THE THERMOSTAT IN THESE UNITS THAT IS THE SAME AS OURS.

Jules, I'm sending you a PM with some info which might or might not be useful
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Old 14th September 2010, 22:34   #6
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Default warm up tips

Well I have an FBH, which is nice! Everyone can significantly decrease engine warm up time just by ensuring the heater contols are set to full cold during warm up. You can feel the engine power diminish as you twist the heater control towards hot when the engine is very cold and warming up.

After reading these posts I think that most diesel owners complaining of slow warm up have a broken themostat. The thermostat is not closing properly, I have changed a thermostat before that looked ok to me but the replacement completely fixed a warm up problem that that car had.

If you have a water cooled EGR then it enables a quick warm up by using super hot exhaust temperatures to warm up the cooling water. If you remove the EGR then you get a cooler running engine.

What about fooling the EGR into opening after start up to enable super quick warm up times? Probably a bad idea, anyone tried it?

Last edited by -Joe; 14th September 2010 at 22:37..
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Old 22nd January 2011, 20:27   #7
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-75-MGZT-...-/370476153133

Good idea or dangerous for the engine????
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Old 22nd January 2011, 20:31   #8
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Default Housing

PHILJUDO:This is the British made version of the Meziere(USA) in line housing. Quite a few of us are using this system now. I have had no problems after about four months use.
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Old 22nd January 2011, 20:43   #9
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Thanks for that, I suspect mine is starting to run cold.
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Old 2nd November 2012, 02:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James.uk View Post
Hmmm... So what about partially blocking off the radiator? An old trick I know, but one that has worked for me in the past on other cars?
...
James
The reply from BMW and our experience tells me that it won't work purely because our engine does not produce enough heat.
If the thermostat doesn't open, & it probably never does in winter conditions, no water passes through the radiator, so you can't heat it up by covering the radiator.
However, covering it will stop cold air, to a certain extent, cooling the block etc. so that would probably help retain heat but beware when hotter weather comes (fat chance ! !)
My old B18 petrol Volvo had a sprung roller blind operated by a 'lavatory chain' pull on the dash which was brilliant to get the temp. up quickly (but I forgot it once and nearly cooked the engine !) Looked down at the temp gauge and there was no needle, was right off the gauge.
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