75 CDTI manual clutch issues

[mmz]

My clutch, which was told to be replaced about a year ago, has started to make a strange loudish low whirring sound always when taking up drive. It is quite silent when the pedal is fully up or fully pressed. That whirring sound varies according to revs so to my mind it comes from the thrust bearing. It is hard to believe that they would last only one year so is it normal that they make noises? Does this have something to do with the fact that it has become a bit harder to engage first and second gear when the car is moving? Also it has become a bit harder to take up drive without some jolting.

The DMF has also a faint rattling/knocking sound which stops when the clutch is pressed down. I think this DMF noise has nothing to do with the clutch issues but am I right with that?When do you really have to get worried about these issues?

[RPWC]

Once you start to lose fluid from the gearbox,or master cylinder, then that is the time to start worrying. I had the whole lot replaced on my manual, clutch kit, master slave, dmf, and within about 5 months ,the bearing started whirring. Every time the clutch was pressed, it would make the noise .
As for your DMF ,with engine running, and car in neutral, get underneath and put your ear to the bell housing, if it’s on it’s way over it, you will hear it hammering away very clearly from the bell housing. It could be a noisy bearing in the gearbox though, if the whirring only occurs when drive is engaged.

[alanaslan]

Originally Posted by mmz

My clutch, which was told to be replaced about a year ago, has started to make a strange loudish low whirring sound always when taking up drive. It is quite silent when the pedal is fully up or fully pressed. That whirring sound varies according to revs so to my mind it comes from the thrust bearing. It is hard to believe that they would last only one year so is it normal that they make noises? Does this have something to do with the fact that it has become a bit harder to engage first and second gear when the car is moving? Also it has become a bit harder to take up drive without some jolting.

The DMF has also a faint rattling/knocking sound which stops when the clutch is pressed down. I think this DMF noise has nothing to do with the clutch issues but am I right with that?When do you really have to get worried about these issues?

Some of the flee bay bearings are known not to have a good life expectancy. I have heard of them failing in the first 1,000miles.
The snatch on take up could be the flywheel the car is fitted with a dual mass flywheel which should be replaced at the same time as the rest of the clutch. I have been in the habit of replacing them with a solid fly wheel makes the gear change not quite as smooth, but not so your normal driver would notice. This has the advantage that once changed, as long as physical damage to the flywheel face is not done in the future then the flywheel will not need replacing again.
Your noise can be better detected by placing a long screwdriver on the top of the bell housing and listening to the end of it. This will allow you to hear better what is going on inside.
Hope this helps
Alan


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RPWC]

Sits back and awaits the famous word from Brian,

[macafee2]

Originally Posted by alanaslan

Some of the flee bay bearings are known not to have a good life expectancy. I have heard of them failing in the first 1,000miles.
The snatch on take up could be the flywheel the car is fitted with a dual mass flywheel which should be replaced at the same time as the rest of the clutch. I have been in the habit of replacing them with a solid fly wheel makes the gear change not quite as smooth, but not so your normal driver would notice. This has the advantage that once changed, as long as physical damage to the flywheel face is not done in the future then the flywheel will not need replacing again.
Your noise can be better detected by placing a long screwdriver on the top of the bell housing and listening to the end of it. This will allow you to hear better what is going on inside.
Hope this helps
Alan


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I thought replacing with a solid flywheel was a no no, risk of snapping crank?

macafee2

[EastPete]

Originally Posted by mmz

My clutch, which was told to be replaced about a year ago, has started to make a strange loudish low whirring sound always when taking up drive. It is quite silent when the pedal is fully up or fully pressed. That whirring sound varies according to revs so to my mind it comes from the thrust bearing. It is hard to believe that they would last only one year so is it normal that they make noises? Does this have something to do with the fact that it has become a bit harder to engage first and second gear when the car is moving? Also it has become a bit harder to take up drive without some jolting.

The DMF has also a faint rattling/knocking sound which stops when the clutch is pressed down. I think this DMF noise has nothing to do with the clutch issues but am I right with that?When do you really have to get worried about these issues?

Vesa

What clutch slave cylinder/master cylinder do you have fitted to your car ?
The Tazu metal slaves/masters can transmit some diesel knock up into the car through the metal pipework, sometimes audible as a 'grr' sound as you go through the clutch biting point when changing gear, or a knocking noise when the clutch pedal is held down. I had this on my car, but reduced this by removing the copper pipework from the master, and then more recently fitting a genuine Rover master with plastic pipework.

A whirring sound might suggest a release bearing problem - there have been some reports of Tazu slaves developing noisy release bearings after a few miles. Difficulty getting into first and second might suggest there has been some fluid loss and/or air in the system, so it may be worth checking for leaks and bleeding the system through, to see if that improves things. If a metal slave is fitted, it is important to lubricate the guide tube and release bearing face/input shaft splines when fitting, otherwise things can start to seize up after a while.

DMFs rarely fail - you would get loud knocking and bad clutch judder if the DMF is failing.

Keep us updated

Cheers

Pete

[cb750chris]

I also believe the solid flywheel is supposed to be a bad idea on our cars, due to the make up of the crank shaft, there is a suggestion that the crank is not as strong as the BMW equivalent, and fitting a non-DMF can risk snapping the crank.
Ultimately, it is up to the owner to decide what to fit. But a quick ebay search throws up £275 for a solid flywheel conversion, and £429 for a DMF kit, so a £154 premium for a DMF kit (LUK DMF), considering the lifespan of the OEM DMF, and the labour costs of fitting a clutch it seems silly to risk breaking a crank to save £154.
Chris

[CivilSteve]

Switching to a Solid or Single mass flywheel is not ideal on engines designed for a DMF.

This is down to the torsional vibrations that act through the engine and drive train which are more apparent at lower RPMs (1400-2000 rpm). To counter these a dampening system is needed.

With a DMF installed these dampening systems are no longer required so the engine designer can remove excess mass etc from the system (to reduce costs and improve efficiency)

Seeing as the crank is considered a weak point on the M47R I wouldn't see this as a good idea for long term reliability

[mmz]

Originally Posted by EastPete

The Tazu metal slaves/masters can transmit some diesel knock up into the car through the metal pipework

That's interesting because I have had had some strange vibrations conducted from the engine to the body. Maybe here's the reason for that. I have no idea of what parts have been used in the clutch replacement because it was done by the previous owner.

[FrenchMike]

Originally Posted by mmz

My clutch, which was told to be replaced about a year ago, has started to make a strange loudish low whirring sound always when taking up drive. It is quite silent when the pedal is fully up or fully pressed. That whirring sound varies according to revs so to my mind it comes from the thrust bearing. It is hard to believe that they would last only one year so is it normal that they make noises? Does this have something to do with the fact that it has become a bit harder to engage first and second gear when the car is moving? Also it has become a bit harder to take up drive without some jolting.

The DMF has also a faint rattling/knocking sound which stops when the clutch is pressed down. I think this DMF noise has nothing to do with the clutch issues but am I right with that?When do you really have to get worried about these issues?

Not sure it's clutch mechanism related as you say :
It is quite silent when the pedal is fully up or fully pressed

I would begin with a decent bleeding

Mike