V6 Broken Cam!!

ballymenaman · 27th September 2016, 00:18

I hope my car is not now destined for the scrapheap! I bought it on the proviso that the mechanic owner did a full belt, w pump/thermostat change. Paid big money for it - immaculate with 33k miles.

The water pump failed after 1700 miles/3 months and I decided to do it myself - not much choice over here as Rover mechanics are a rare thing. I then found out the belt tensioner pulley was seized against the engine block and the timing belt was shredding itself due to misalignment.

I bought the proper timing tools and changed the w pump and front belt.
My rear cam pulleys were out of alignment after the belt change at the front. I was told to fit the front tool, loosen the inlet cam sprocket at the front and use a wrench/socket to turn the rear pulleys into alignment. I followed the instructions I was given..... BANG - one loose front pulley and one little piece of snapped cam fell out.

I am now trying to align the rear pulleys to get the timing right. I'll put it back together but I'm not hopeful.

I am now, officially, the most fed up person in Northern Ireland. A £3000 car reduced to a £300 car - just like that.

Robson Rover Repair · 27th September 2016, 00:32

Gods sake man your joking. Might it be better to find another 2.5 and drop it in?

ballymenaman · 27th September 2016, 00:54

Hi Colin. Know anybody in norn irn who could help me? The best option would probably be a head change seeing that the engines only done 35000 miles. I'm so annoyed - this is a fabulous car. You wouldn't believe the condition!

Robson Rover Repair · 27th September 2016, 01:15

Kv6 mate honestly I wouldn't pull one apart that's running right. I'd rather drop a 80k engine in that's running right than rebuild a damaged 40k engine.

Head change means belts and so on. I don't know anyone who's willing to rebuild a kv6 locally. Trust me I've tried several engine builders and none will touch one.

I'm going to rebuild my own. I'd 100% recommend a good engine dropped in and go from there.

I went to view a. 2002 kv6 which had failed at 9k last month. 9k. Car was brand new. Went to scrap before I could help the owner.

Les4048 · 27th September 2016, 06:25

Why not get a secondhand camshaft and fit it

roverbarmy · 27th September 2016, 08:14

I seem to remember that Rimmers have a brand new head in their clearance sale. Don't know if it will fit yours or not???
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/ItemList...3--outlet-true
Looks like a left hand head?

Mike

SD1too · 27th September 2016, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les4048

Why not get a secondhand camshaft and fit it

Les is right, in principle. Repair what you've got, and "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
So, I would definitely not change the engine. You won't know what you're buying. You'll probably end up with a whole load of new faults, and things will break during the transplant process.
For the same reasons I would not change the entire head either.
I only differ from Les' advice in one respect. I would buy a new camshaft, not a second hand one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballymenaman

... due to rubbish advice I've been given by someone who was supposed to know what they were talking about (not on this forum).

You're not the first Andy and you won't be the last. We are often cautious with our technical advice for good reasons. Let's have a think about what went wrong.

You fitted the front tool first to the inlet camshaft sprocket, then to the exposed end of the exhaust camshaft. There is then a solid piece of metal (the tool) braced between the two camshafts.
You then tried to turn the inlet camshaft at it's rear end. So it was held solid at the front, and you tried to turn it at the other end. You were trying to twist it.
The primary belt needed to be removed, and the front tool taken off to enable the inlet and exhaust camshafts to rotate unhindered.

It's time now to have a very slow and considered think about what you are going to do next. Don't make the same mistake again! You'll receive lots of suggestions, including my own. Think of what could go wrong, and how to avoid that happening. Read in the manuals what's involved in removing an engine, storing and disposing of the old one. Do the same for cylinder head replacement and camshaft renewal. Consider the cost of each, and the extras which you won't be expecting. Talk it over on the forum. Above all, beware of all these alleged ex-Rover mechanics who always seem to have an easy answer!

Take it easy Andy. We're here to help and give support.

Simon

Mike Noc · 27th September 2016, 09:46

Excellent advice from Simon, and as he says, many of us have done similar things at one time or another. I know I have.

You must have put a fair amount of effort into turning the camshaft to break it.

Good mechanics use all their senses, and sometimes it has to be about feel, so if you do decide to carry out repairs, and as mentioned, that sounds like your best bet, then worth learning about what your fingers can tell you.

With the spark plugs out (don't want to state the bleeding obvious, but you have removed them?) you can turn an engine by hand and feel anything starting to lock up long before any damage is done if you are careful.

Go round by hand a few times before working on the engine, and you can get a good feel of how things should be.

With the engine in the safe position, and with the camshafts free to rotate, then again you can turn them and get a feel for the valve spring resistances.

Once you know how it feels when everything is OK, you'll feel when something starts to lock up and can stop for a cup of tea and ponder the problem before any damage is done.

.

zefrench · 27th September 2016, 12:39

What part of the camshaft broke ? If you look at my previous thread, you will see I was able to re-time my camshaft even with a broken piece at that front. Look at the pictures I posted.

minimutly · 27th September 2016, 17:14

I'm guessing you broke the bit at the end next to the slot?
Is this the front bank? Important question since to change this is easy (relatively), the back one less so.
Repairing (replacing the cam) isn't that difficult, and a lot easier than an engine change, but you will still need to set the cam timing afterwards.
To get the cam out you remove the fuel lines, electrical, the cam cover, remove the carrier/ ladder and out she pops. The whole lot needs cleaning, you'll need some special sealer, then carefully pull the ladder down onto the head. Add some lubricant, fit the gasket and cover, time the engine and put everything back together again.
A days work, if the cambelts are accessible allready, as yours are.
Dont scrap it, and dont change the engine, is my advice.

27th September 2016, 00:18	#1
ballymenaman Avid contributor 75 Contemporary SE 2.5 V6 Auto, Rover 45, classic mini and E Niro Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ballymena, Northern Ireland Posts: 239 Thanks: 25 Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts	V6 Broken Cam!! I hope my car is not now destined for the scrapheap! I bought it on the proviso that the mechanic owner did a full belt, w pump/thermostat change. Paid big money for it - immaculate with 33k miles. The water pump failed after 1700 miles/3 months and I decided to do it myself - not much choice over here as Rover mechanics are a rare thing. I then found out the belt tensioner pulley was seized against the engine block and the timing belt was shredding itself due to misalignment. I bought the proper timing tools and changed the w pump and front belt. My rear cam pulleys were out of alignment after the belt change at the front. I was told to fit the front tool, loosen the inlet cam sprocket at the front and use a wrench/socket to turn the rear pulleys into alignment. I followed the instructions I was given..... BANG - one loose front pulley and one little piece of snapped cam fell out. I am now trying to align the rear pulleys to get the timing right. I'll put it back together but I'm not hopeful. I am now, officially, the most fed up person in Northern Ireland. A £3000 car reduced to a £300 car - just like that. Last edited by ballymenaman; 27th September 2016 at 18:02..

27th September 2016, 00:32	#2
Robson Rover Repair NI/ROI RS ZT-T 190 / 75 Diesel x3 / 6 door limo / 216 Cabby / Rover 25 van Join Date: May 2009 Location: Antrim Posts: 8,103 Thanks: 299 Thanked 1,046 Times in 568 Posts	Gods sake man your joking. Might it be better to find another 2.5 and drop it in? __________________ Cheers, Colin Robson Rover Repair on Youtube DISCOUNTED MTEC BRAKES FOR ALL MG ROVER'S Braided hoses, more coating and pad options for 2024

27th September 2016, 01:15	#4
Robson Rover Repair NI/ROI RS ZT-T 190 / 75 Diesel x3 / 6 door limo / 216 Cabby / Rover 25 van Join Date: May 2009 Location: Antrim Posts: 8,103 Thanks: 299 Thanked 1,046 Times in 568 Posts	Kv6 mate honestly I wouldn't pull one apart that's running right. I'd rather drop a 80k engine in that's running right than rebuild a damaged 40k engine. Head change means belts and so on. I don't know anyone who's willing to rebuild a kv6 locally. Trust me I've tried several engine builders and none will touch one. I'm going to rebuild my own. I'd 100% recommend a good engine dropped in and go from there. I went to view a. 2002 kv6 which had failed at 9k last month. 9k. Car was brand new. Went to scrap before I could help the owner. __________________ Cheers, Colin Robson Rover Repair on Youtube DISCOUNTED MTEC BRAKES FOR ALL MG ROVER'S Braided hoses, more coating and pad options for 2024

27th September 2016, 08:14	#6
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,050 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	I seem to remember that Rimmers have a brand new head in their clearance sale. Don't know if it will fit yours or not??? http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/ItemList...3--outlet-true Looks like a left hand head? Mike __________________ Oil in my veins!

27th September 2016, 09:46	#8
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,550 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Excellent advice from Simon, and as he says, many of us have done similar things at one time or another. I know I have. You must have put a fair amount of effort into turning the camshaft to break it. Good mechanics use all their senses, and sometimes it has to be about feel, so if you do decide to carry out repairs, and as mentioned, that sounds like your best bet, then worth learning about what your fingers can tell you. With the spark plugs out (don't want to state the bleeding obvious, but you have removed them?) you can turn an engine by hand and feel anything starting to lock up long before any damage is done if you are careful. Go round by hand a few times before working on the engine, and you can get a good feel of how things should be. With the engine in the safe position, and with the camshafts free to rotate, then again you can turn them and get a feel for the valve spring resistances. Once you know how it feels when everything is OK, you'll feel when something starts to lock up and can stop for a cup of tea and ponder the problem before any damage is done. . Last edited by Mike Noc; 27th September 2016 at 10:08..

27th September 2016, 00:54	#3
ballymenaman Avid contributor 75 Contemporary SE 2.5 V6 Auto, Rover 45, classic mini and E Niro Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Ballymena, Northern Ireland Posts: 239 Thanks: 25 Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts	Hi Colin. Know anybody in norn irn who could help me? The best option would probably be a head change seeing that the engines only done 35000 miles. I'm so annoyed - this is a fabulous car. You wouldn't believe the condition!

27th September 2016, 06:25	#5
Les4048 This is my second home Rover 75 Tourer/ MG ZT-T 400 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Lhanbryde Posts: 3,278 Thanks: 2,627 Thanked 1,523 Times in 869 Posts	Why not get a secondhand camshaft and fit it

27th September 2016, 12:39	#9
zefrench Avid contributor Freelander V6 Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 130 Thanks: 30 Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts	What part of the camshaft broke ? If you look at my previous thread, you will see I was able to re-time my camshaft even with a broken piece at that front. Look at the pictures I posted.

27th September 2016, 17:14	#10
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	I'm guessing you broke the bit at the end next to the slot? Is this the front bank? Important question since to change this is easy (relatively), the back one less so. Repairing (replacing the cam) isn't that difficult, and a lot easier than an engine change, but you will still need to set the cam timing afterwards. To get the cam out you remove the fuel lines, electrical, the cam cover, remove the carrier/ ladder and out she pops. The whole lot needs cleaning, you'll need some special sealer, then carefully pull the ladder down onto the head. Add some lubricant, fit the gasket and cover, time the engine and put everything back together again. A days work, if the cambelts are accessible allready, as yours are. Dont scrap it, and dont change the engine, is my advice.