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Old 16th October 2021, 11:29   #31
grivas
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Could you clarify for me how old the younger generation are?
I thought Boris "won" a general election.
I thought the vote for Brexit was taken before Boris was pm.


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Do you seriously need clarification of what constitutes the younger generation? I am sure there is an definition somewhere, that is not the point, a society which is incapable to consider the well being of its people is doomed to failure and decline, it may take a long time but it will happen.
We need leadership, and statesmanship from our elected representatives, we need urgently a full reappraisal of the needs of all the people of this nation, good quality affordable housing is essential, and needs to be addressed NOW, I am saying that all governments have ignored the problem of poor housing, not fit for human habitation, and the spiraling cost of what is available, made worse by the inability to coordinate a policy which allows for the building of much needed housing.
I am saying that there is a complete lack of interest in resolving this problem by the present government because of conflict with landowners who fund it, and because an inflated housing market props up the failing economy.

Personally, if I were a young man, with two university degrees in my pocket, and a professional career in the making, I would be looking elsewhere for my living, not the UK, I wouldn't like it but I would still do it.
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Old 16th October 2021, 15:42   #32
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Couldnít agree more, the so-called housing Ďmarketí is screwed (there are other words one could use) heavily in favour of the landowners/developers/
financiers. These are the ones that move in similar circles of mutual benefit irrespective of party loyalties (and not necessarily drinks parties!) Itís the biggest Ďmutualí industry in the country.

It has precious little to do with the needs of the people or societal aims Ė merely the continuance of the profit turnaround in the interests of the wealthy. I was part of it (on the finance side but not the wealthy!) for 25 years through the whole political cycle and at all levels. Not that Iím cynical, of course.
'
The trouble is, it is the same everywhere and the vested interests make sure of it. Much is made of the level of consumer protection but the whole thing is illusory, thatís only the transfer of the money aspect and nothing to do with the social needs, rather the Lenders' objectives. The motto is: is there a market NOW, and will it Sell. And that applies under every colour of government.

Thereís nowt wrong with profit, but the game is loaded too much one way on an already sloping pitch. Remember council houses? When houses were built on the basis of a genuine need? As opposed to naked profit? In spite of our size, the one thing we are not short of is Land. Itís not a question of Right or Left, itís preparation for a new generation of wealth producers.
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Old 16th October 2021, 16:36   #33
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Do you seriously need clarification of what constitutes the younger generation? I am sure there is an definition somewhere, that is not the point, a society which is incapable to consider the well being of its people is doomed to failure and decline, it may take a long time but it will happen.
We need leadership, and statesmanship from our elected representatives, we need urgently a full reappraisal of the needs of all the people of this nation, good quality affordable housing is essential, and needs to be addressed NOW, I am saying that all governments have ignored the problem of poor housing, not fit for human habitation, and the spiraling cost of what is available, made worse by the inability to coordinate a policy which allows for the building of much needed housing.
I am saying that there is a complete lack of interest in resolving this problem by the present government because of conflict with landowners who fund it, and because an inflated housing market props up the failing economy.

Personally, if I were a young man, with two university degrees in my pocket, and a professional career in the making, I would be looking elsewhere for my living, not the UK, I wouldn't like it but I would still do it.
It is a lot easier to discuss a subject with someone when you know their criteria, for some reason you decided not to answer the question, that is not helpful. So, another question, why would you seek to work abroad?

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Old 16th October 2021, 17:44   #34
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Iím the same, if I was a young man Iíd be in OZ. I donít think this country will be sorted in my lifetime.
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Old 17th October 2021, 23:51   #35
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How old are your children and what area would they be looking to buy?
They are under 12, so not for a while yet. But I cannot see how it will be possible. Even in the north east where I am!


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Oh boy, there are a number of reasons why the state needs to provide housing, sometimes temporary and sometimes permanent. Refugees, those to sick to work are a couple of examples, those that lose their home for one reason or another and perhaps cannot get work so cannot afford to rent.
Some say that rental properties add to the housing shortage.
I thought housing benefit was now capped and this had lead to people being evicted as they cannot afford the rent.
I don't see why the state needs to be involved in provision. If we don't eat, we will die, yet the state doesn't run the supermarkets. Indeed, I suggest they would be grim places if they did.

Refugees? Do we get many Irish or French fleeing war?

Housing benefit cap is a political joke. They are given discretionary payments to cover the gap. Get yourself five kids by different men and you can have a huge house paid for by the hard work of others. The benefit calculations are banded and based on average rents, so there is a never ending game of raising the rent, then the benefit etc.


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If a big mortgage gets you the home you want, is that not enjoying your money? I've driven down a few roads to see the expensive car on the drive yet thought omg what a dive of an area to live. People enjoy their money differently. The car is much more obtainable then a house when funds a re limited.
Oh yes, it is better than a car, but it is still dead money. If houses crashed 90% in value, I think it might benefit more people than it hurts...
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Old 18th October 2021, 09:40   #36
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They are under 12, so not for a while yet. But I cannot see how it will be possible. Even in the north east where I am!




I don't see why the state needs to be involved in provision. If we don't eat, we will die, yet the state doesn't run the supermarkets. Indeed, I suggest they would be grim places if they did.

Refugees? Do we get many Irish or French fleeing war?

Housing benefit cap is a political joke. They are given discretionary payments to cover the gap. Get yourself five kids by different men and you can have a huge house paid for by the hard work of others. The benefit calculations are banded and based on average rents, so there is a never ending game of raising the rent, then the benefit etc.




Oh yes, it is better than a car, but it is still dead money. If houses crashed 90% in value, I think it might benefit more people than it hurts...
Lots of time for them to get a job, starting with a paper round or Sunday job. At 15? my daughter had 3 jobs, at 27/28 she had 3 jobs. She goes back to work in a month or so, she will have 2 jobs. The decision your children and you make about them working may have ramifications for years to come.
Going back 38 years my wife and I had about £22,000 in savings, we were 20 and 21, out first house was £33,000.
Found this on the web "Of people between the age of 22 and 29 years, about 40% have no savings at all, while around 10% have savings between £2,000 and £3,000. Only around 25% have saved more than £6,000"
The point I am trying to make, if people work and save but cannot afford then they have the right to complain, if they don't do either or both then don't moan they cant afford, now there will be exceptions, sick, low paid being 2



French and Irish, interesting.
You have decent honest foreign people fleeing their home countries due to fear that may not be able read, write or speak English, how on earth are they going to live a legal life and support themselves? OK, this example dates back years but German Jews came to the UK round about 1938/39, what would you have done with them? Left them to their fate or given them a safe place of refuge, a hot meal and a roof over their head? History tells us what happened to an awful lot of them.
Now we have the situation with Afghanistan.
I get the feeling you are thinking about those that want to sponge off the state while I am thinking about those that want to work and lead a decent honest life, alas, amongst the group of refugees there will no doubt be bad apples


They state should be there for those that truly cannot manage, low pay, sick and some may have lost everything due to splitting from partner and then paying child maintenance or partner dying and no income.
Rent does rise in some cases every year but costs can too.
For a lot of people as it may already have been said, the value of a home is meaningless until you come to sell or borrow against it or you want bragging rights.


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Old 19th October 2021, 23:32   #37
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Hmm, I think that 40 years ago, over 20k in savings would be unheard of (round here!).

It get the impression that the older generations (who have done well with property and pensions) simply don't understand how bleak it is for someone in their 20s. I appreciate that some need a kick up the backside and to drop their PCP cars, iPhones, coffees, gym subs etc. But the housing numbers are way out... A 20k deposit would be good (hard with a 50k student debt!) but to borrow three times your earnings would give you a bit over 100k for an average job... But an average house is over 2.5 times this amount.

I notice with 'refugees' that those who virtue signal the most tend to not be impacted. I find it hard to see how the UK is their first safe country.
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Old 20th October 2021, 08:49   #38
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Hmm, I think that 40 years ago, over 20k in savings would be unheard of (round here!).

It get the impression that the older generations (who have done well with property and pensions) simply don't understand how bleak it is for someone in their 20s. I appreciate that some need a kick up the backside and to drop their PCP cars, iPhones, coffees, gym subs etc. But the housing numbers are way out... A 20k deposit would be good (hard with a 50k student debt!) but to borrow three times your earnings would give you a bit over 100k for an average job... But an average house is over 2.5 times this amount.

I notice with 'refugees' that those who virtue signal the most tend to not be impacted. I find it hard to see how the UK is their first safe country.

I think the point I was trying to make is that people don't have the savings to start with. If you are trying to get a house in London, god help you. If you are trying to get a house in some other parts of the country and I don't mean in the middle of now where with no transport links etc it should not be a problem, 3 bed semi under £180,000.

Lets introduce the bank of mum and dad, for some the bank is there, for others it is not. I know a few people that have inherited, one couple gave their son a house they inherited, another has nothing left of £250,000, their son did not benefit, the money was just spent.


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Old 21st October 2021, 11:15   #39
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UK house prices I think are largely based on a ponzi scheme which is being passed off as one of supply and demand. The scheme effectively went bust with the financial crash in 2008 which, contrary to what the culpable would prefer people to believe, was seen coming by some analysts. Seems like only yesterday that some of the expenses fiddlers were scurrying down Westminster streets trying to evade reporters while uttering things like putting money into banks is no different to putting money on a horse. That went down well, what not, with pension providers who had regarded banks as extremely safe blue-chip investments and the likes of local councils who thought that their millions in reserves were safe in a bank - as safe as, well, err, houses.

There was a wobble in the housing market at the time but not a crash because to save their own faces, positions and nice little earners the culpable in the uk merely deferred it. But it is not sustainable to borrow and to print funny money forever plus savers cannot be squeezed for what they no longer have or no longer entrust to a bank - banks which some still regard as safe as houses but for utterly different reasons, lol. America did let the crash happen and in so doing ensured that those affected fell from a lower height. China's got a massive problem atm with its housing market. About, I think, 90 million empty properties and some huge new-builds demolished before completion when the business model collapsed. Many of its people bought off-plan and have lost their money as things stand atm. China's day of reckoning has arrived in its housing market and it will be interesting to see how they deal with it and its global effect.
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