Clutch woes

Drummer Boy · 22nd January 2019, 01:56

Hi all

I have a ZTT CDTi manual and have started to suffer clutch issues. I THINK it's going to have to be a new one but I'd appreciate any wise input.

Car is on 120K, I bought it on 101K ish last March. There was a receipt for a clutch job when I got it but I didn't pay close attention to the date or mileage on the receipt; it turns out that it was January 2018 at approx 100K so either I have burned through a clutch extremely quick or it was a duff job! Or maybe something else has gone wrong - that's what I'm hoping.

Around November it started to slip, just occasionally. I realised when I was on the uphill section of a motorway and suddenly the revs shot up. I've done a few hundred miles since then and was going to see someone over Christmas who is recommended but for a couple of reasons it was not to be. The car was quite driveable and the clutch would only slip if I accelerated a bit too hard past 2K revs.

This morning it was v v cold, I think the car thermometer read at -3, and the clutch operation was AWFUL. It seemed that the bite was much further toward the top of the pedal travel but that may be because the pedal seemed more spongy than usual. The clutch was slipping much further down the rev range, more like 1500+ so any kind of acceleration was made much more difficult.

If I'm absolutely honest, I've always thought the take-up of the clutch on this car is rough. I had a 75 CDT Tourer before this and remember the heavy clutch pedal but not the judder on moving off. With the worsening of clutch operation this morning, 1st is even more rough and reverse feels like it is going to shake the car to bits!

Based on these symptoms, the Haynes fault finder seems to point me towards the clutch disc linings either being excessively worn or contaminated, or faulty/distorted pressure plate or diaphragm spring. Does this sound like I should get the clutch job done again? Am I missing anything else that I should be checking first? Even if there were other things to be done to extend the life of the clutch, would it be better to get a good quality clutch replacement done to (probably) get rid of the annoying judder and excessively heavy clutch pedal?

And finally, I read loads of conflicting opinions about this but should I be getting a DMF at the same time? If only because it would be more economical than having to repeat so much of the job if/when it does finally need replacing.

Sorry for the long post - hopefully some of you have words of wisdom on this!

macafee2 · 22nd January 2019, 06:59

DMF new is expensive and recently I saw a thread that says these rarely fail.

macafee2

marinabrian · 22nd January 2019, 07:54

It is very likely whoever fitted the clutch did so using a poor quality part, and almost certainly omitted to lubricate the input shaft splines.

This leads to rapid wear of both the clutch friction material and clutch pressure plate.

Another thing to consider is the possibility that the input shaft seal has been damaged due to incorrect fitting of the previous clutch, so this should be inspected to ensure the clutch friction material isn't contaminated with gear oil.

Yes it's time for a new clutch, fortunately the price of a genuine Rover three part clutch isn't too prohibitive.

If you are doing the job yourself, it's not difficult, but a lot of stuff to be removed prior to fitting.

Best of luck

Brian

Drummer Boy · 22nd January 2019, 14:47

Thanks Brian, I did rather hope you would get involved!!

I was thinking of calling the garage named on the receipt but now I'm thinking if they messed it up once they'll do it again! They used a Luk kit but the receipt really isn't very detailed.

As for the replacement, I was going to get a Borg & Beck as recommended by Mat at DMGRS. Would you recommend something different? And should I do the master at the same time?

I wasn't sure if I should attempt the job myself but based on what you say I might. I've done a few things myself but the clutch will be the trickiest to date.

Thanks so much for your input

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinabrian

It is very likely whoever fitted the clutch did so using a poor quality part, and almost certainly omitted to lubricate the input shaft splines.

This leads to rapid wear of both the clutch friction material and clutch pressure plate.

Another thing to consider is the possibility that the input shaft seal has been damaged due to incorrect fitting of the previous clutch, so this should be inspected to ensure the clutch friction material isn't contaminated with gear oil.

Yes it's time for a new clutch, fortunately the price of a genuine Rover three part clutch isn't too prohibitive.

If you are doing the job yourself, it's not difficult, but a lot of stuff to be removed prior to fitting.

Best of luck

Brian

Drummer Boy · 24th January 2019, 13:00

Brian

Just wondered if you'd mind recommending where to get parts?

Also, before it started to slip there was significant 'throbbing' through the pedal when moving off. Is this an indicator of a failing DMF? I called a local garage who claim to be Rover specialists and the mechanic seemed to be saying it would be DMF. He said they could 'test' it and give me a cost; I would've thought, given the cost of the part, that a good garage would open the box and visually inspect the DMF while doing the clutch job, and only if it was genuinely worn would they recommend replacing.

Finally, as you suggested, I might just go on a steep learning curve and have a crack myself! If I do, I've been reading the guide on doing the job without fully lowering the subframe - is this something you'd recommend?

Thanks for your help,
Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinabrian

It is very likely whoever fitted the clutch did so using a poor quality part, and almost certainly omitted to lubricate the input shaft splines.

This leads to rapid wear of both the clutch friction material and clutch pressure plate.

Another thing to consider is the possibility that the input shaft seal has been damaged due to incorrect fitting of the previous clutch, so this should be inspected to ensure the clutch friction material isn't contaminated with gear oil.

Yes it's time for a new clutch, fortunately the price of a genuine Rover three part clutch isn't too prohibitive.

If you are doing the job yourself, it's not difficult, but a lot of stuff to be removed prior to fitting.

Best of luck

Brian

Teflon · 24th January 2019, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drummer Boy

Brian

........... I've been reading the guide on doing the job without fully lowering the subframe - is this something you'd recommend?

Thanks for your help,
Paul

I'm no techie, but seeing post no 34 here: https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/s...+clutch&page=4 I think the answer would be "no".

Cliff

Drummer Boy · 24th January 2019, 15:17

Ah, well spotted! Thanks Cliff!

The other thing I'm unsure about - DMGRS says the original part didn't have any springs in the driven plate, so the Borg and Beck kit with Luk slave is better. What's the forum opinion? Also, is it my lack of experience or does the current kit on the Rimmer site actually have a sprung driven plate?

22nd January 2019, 01:56	#1
Drummer Boy Regular poster ZT-T Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Ashford, Kent Posts: 37 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Clutch woes Hi all I have a ZTT CDTi manual and have started to suffer clutch issues. I THINK it's going to have to be a new one but I'd appreciate any wise input. Car is on 120K, I bought it on 101K ish last March. There was a receipt for a clutch job when I got it but I didn't pay close attention to the date or mileage on the receipt; it turns out that it was January 2018 at approx 100K so either I have burned through a clutch extremely quick or it was a duff job! Or maybe something else has gone wrong - that's what I'm hoping. Around November it started to slip, just occasionally. I realised when I was on the uphill section of a motorway and suddenly the revs shot up. I've done a few hundred miles since then and was going to see someone over Christmas who is recommended but for a couple of reasons it was not to be. The car was quite driveable and the clutch would only slip if I accelerated a bit too hard past 2K revs. This morning it was v v cold, I think the car thermometer read at -3, and the clutch operation was AWFUL. It seemed that the bite was much further toward the top of the pedal travel but that may be because the pedal seemed more spongy than usual. The clutch was slipping much further down the rev range, more like 1500+ so any kind of acceleration was made much more difficult. If I'm absolutely honest, I've always thought the take-up of the clutch on this car is rough. I had a 75 CDT Tourer before this and remember the heavy clutch pedal but not the judder on moving off. With the worsening of clutch operation this morning, 1st is even more rough and reverse feels like it is going to shake the car to bits! Based on these symptoms, the Haynes fault finder seems to point me towards the clutch disc linings either being excessively worn or contaminated, or faulty/distorted pressure plate or diaphragm spring. Does this sound like I should get the clutch job done again? Am I missing anything else that I should be checking first? Even if there were other things to be done to extend the life of the clutch, would it be better to get a good quality clutch replacement done to (probably) get rid of the annoying judder and excessively heavy clutch pedal? And finally, I read loads of conflicting opinions about this but should I be getting a DMF at the same time? If only because it would be more economical than having to repeat so much of the job if/when it does finally need replacing. Sorry for the long post - hopefully some of you have words of wisdom on this!

22nd January 2019, 06:59	#2
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,912 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	DMF new is expensive and recently I saw a thread that says these rarely fail. macafee2

22nd January 2019, 07:54	#3
marinabrian MG ZT Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 20,151 Thanks: 3,565 Thanked 10,837 Times in 5,718 Posts	It is very likely whoever fitted the clutch did so using a poor quality part, and almost certainly omitted to lubricate the input shaft splines. This leads to rapid wear of both the clutch friction material and clutch pressure plate. Another thing to consider is the possibility that the input shaft seal has been damaged due to incorrect fitting of the previous clutch, so this should be inspected to ensure the clutch friction material isn't contaminated with gear oil. Yes it's time for a new clutch, fortunately the price of a genuine Rover three part clutch isn't too prohibitive. If you are doing the job yourself, it's not difficult, but a lot of stuff to be removed prior to fitting. Best of luck Brian

24th January 2019, 15:17	#7
Drummer Boy Regular poster ZT-T Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Ashford, Kent Posts: 37 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Ah, well spotted! Thanks Cliff! The other thing I'm unsure about - DMGRS says the original part didn't have any springs in the driven plate, so the Borg and Beck kit with Luk slave is better. What's the forum opinion? Also, is it my lack of experience or does the current kit on the Rimmer site actually have a sprung driven plate?