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Old 19th June 2022, 13:18   #101
Borg Warner
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Not good in Greece it seems:

https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/17/...takes-its-toll
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Old 19th June 2022, 14:18   #102
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No offence intended, but the naivety seems unending. The current cost to the public of EV’s is massively subsidised by HMGOV, that’s you and me incidentally, by way of misappropriated taxes in the form of grants for research/development/production in order to supplant conventional forms of transport.

Even with such existing subsidies they render acquisition out of the question for so many. All of this is on overly pessimistic assessments of impending doom. Especially when you realise that our national percentage of the alleged Demon carbon emissions is about 1% of the global figure.

I read this week that those ‘grants’ for EV production and development are to be phased out soon. I wonder what the price of a new generation of EV’s will be, just when new liquid fuel cars are no longer available or produced.


So, when faced with millions of unused classic cars and the no-longer produced new ones together with the unavailability of fuel for them, how will the move to EV’s possibly be maintained? No more petrol/diesel pumps?

I’m truly amazed at the inglorious stampede into a truly massive hike in the costs of pleasure motoring. Lambs to the... well, the nose on our collective face is obvious enough.
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Old 19th June 2022, 15:31   #103
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Originally Posted by wraymond View Post
No offence intended, but the naivety seems unending. The current cost to the public of EV’s is massively subsidised by HMGOV, that’s you and me incidentally, by way of misappropriated taxes in the form of grants for research/development/production in order to supplant conventional forms of transport.

Even with such existing subsidies they render acquisition out of the question for so many. All of this is on overly pessimistic assessments of impending doom. Especially when you realise that our national percentage of the alleged Demon carbon emissions is about 1% of the global figure.

I read this week that those ‘grants’ for EV production and development are to be phased out soon. I wonder what the price of a new generation of EV’s will be, just when new liquid fuel cars are no longer available or produced.


So, when faced with millions of unused classic cars and the no-longer produced new ones together with the unavailability of fuel for them, how will the move to EV’s possibly be maintained? No more petrol/diesel pumps?

I’m truly amazed at the inglorious stampede into a truly massive hike in the costs of pleasure motoring. Lambs to the... well, the nose on our collective face is obvious enough.



I've been reading a lot of these reports since it's inception in 2015, the underlying message has always been to get rid of private car ownership & congestion at the same time. https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...issions-report


The UK is signed up & legally bound to reduce emissions by 68% by 2030, That's 13% stricter than the EU's 'Fit for 55' % reductions, Hence getting rid of red diesel for most of the people/companies that used it & stopping the PICG (plug in car grant) for private ICE cars but it's still available for Vans & Taxi's to reduce most urban emissions as they're predominantly diesel, The PICG is still available for motorbikes for some strange reason.



They know full well a vast amount of motorist will not be able to charge at home nor will there be enough on-street charging.

They want people to move away from private ownership & join car clubs or use public transport, The government is spending £millions on public transport infrastructure in the coming years.



ICE vehicles are seen as public enemy number 1 especially diesel vehicles, Can you image what it'll be like in 2030 when the ICE ban is imposed for new cars.
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Old 19th June 2022, 17:41   #104
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Originally Posted by Lancpudn View Post
The UK is signed up & legally bound to reduce emissions by 68% by 2030, That's 13% stricter than the EU's 'Fit for 55' % reductions, Hence getting rid of red diesel for most of the people/companies that used it & stopping the PICG (plug in car grant) for private ICE cars...

ICE vehicles are seen as public enemy number 1 especially diesel vehicles, Can you image what it'll be like in 2030 when the ICE ban is imposed for new cars.
Something worth noting is that forcing everyone into electric cars will actually increase emissions, in a sense. According to research by Polestar, making an electric car produces 64% more emissions than a comparable conventionally-powered car. Add in the fact that a lot of people now change their car every couple of years on PCP deals and the emissions from vehicle production become two-and-a-half times higher. Also, an electric car will have to be driven for 50,000 miles (charging from the European grid) before its carbon footprint is lower than that of an equivalent petrol car, and how often is that mileage reached before changing cars two years later?

It's very similar to how plastic use in shopping bags has actually gone up by 440% since the 5p charge was introduced, as now people just buy 'bags for life' instead of normal carrier bags (source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/art...tting-it-wrong).

In other words, it's far better and more environmentally responsible to keep using what we already have and make things last as long as possible!

Last edited by TheSoundCollector; 19th June 2022 at 17:43.. Reason: Grammar error!
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Old 19th June 2022, 18:10   #105
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Originally Posted by TheSoundCollector View Post
Something worth noting is that forcing everyone into electric cars will actually increase emissions, in a sense. According to research by Polestar, making an electric car produces 64% more emissions than a comparable conventionally-powered car. Add in the fact that a lot of people now change their car every couple of years on PCP deals and the emissions from vehicle production become two-and-a-half times higher. Also, an electric car will have to be driven for 50,000 miles (charging from the European grid) before its carbon footprint is lower than that of an equivalent petrol car, and how often is that mileage reached before changing cars two years later?



In other words, it's far better and more environmentally responsible to keep using what we already have and make things last as long as possible!
Confirms my many previous posts - the greenest car you can run is the one you already own.
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Old 19th June 2022, 18:37   #106
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Originally Posted by TheSoundCollector View Post
Something worth noting is that forcing everyone into electric cars will actually increase emissions, in a sense. According to research by Polestar, making an electric car produces 64% more emissions than a comparable conventionally-powered car. Add in the fact that a lot of people now change their car every couple of years on PCP deals and the emissions from vehicle production become two-and-a-half times higher. Also, an electric car will have to be driven for 50,000 miles (charging from the European grid) before its carbon footprint is lower than that of an equivalent petrol car, and how often is that mileage reached before changing cars two years later?

It's very similar to how plastic use in shopping bags has actually gone up by 440% since the 5p charge was introduced, as now people just buy 'bags for life' instead of normal carrier bags (source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/art...tting-it-wrong).

In other words, it's far better and more environmentally responsible to keep using what we already have and make things last as long as possible!

I think you are confusing replacing a car every two years with a car being scrapped after two years!

How often a car gets replaced is irrelevant as long as someone else buys it and continues to use it!
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Old 19th June 2022, 19:09   #107
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Hmm... It isn't totally irrelevant. If people would replace (and therefore pass on) cars after an average of, say, ten years rather than two, then the rate of production could be reduced.

Of course, an electric car is a moral train wreck. Needless 'new toy' consumption, serious grid usage (which is already under strain), the battery component sourcing involving child/slave labour etc.

It is pretty clear that personal transport will be for the 0.1%. Everyone else will be on public transport.
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Old 19th June 2022, 19:46   #108
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Hmm... It isn't totally irrelevant. If people would replace (and therefore pass on) cars after an average of, say, ten years rather than two, then the rate of production could be reduced.
.

It is totally irrelevant because then more people will need to buy new cars due to the non-availability of 2-10 year old cars!


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Of course, an electric car is a moral train wreck. Needless 'new toy' consumption, serious grid usage (which is already under strain), the battery component sourcing involving child/slave labour etc.

Of all the people I know with EV's, none have gone out and bought a 'needless new toy'.


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It is pretty clear that personal transport will be for the 0.1%. Everyone else will be on public transport.

If this can be achieved. man will have achieved a planet friendly milestone!
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Old 19th June 2022, 22:30   #109
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What's the saying?

We're in it together:

https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/19/...nflation-bites
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Old 20th June 2022, 09:05   #110
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"local" Shell petrol station has had the same price for the two days I've driven past and it is 2p a litre cheaper the Esso which is on the same road.

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